Fess Up! Do You Really Know What's Going On In the Latin Mass?

[TrueLight]

Latin Mass, Tridentine Mass, Extraordinary Mass… .Whatever you want to call it.

It’s beautiful, mysterious and reverent.

But do you really understand what’s going on?

Yesterday I went to a Latin mass armed with my missalette. A week earlier I had purchased a book called the Latin Mass Explained by moorman. This was my third Latin mass. The last one I had attended was about a month ago. I felt confident that I knew and understood a lot more than I did a month ago.

Then why was I still lost?

This was a missa cantata which right away had me flipping through the missalette.

Where was the Asberges? How did we get to the Kyrie so quickly?

I knew where to say Amen and where to say “et cum spiritu tuo” but what was that sentence repeated three times right before the communion? After I got home I figured out that was probably the* Domine, non sum dignus*.

Why did the Gospel and homily come after communion?

I knew I was supposed to genuflect at the Et Incarnatus Est during the Credo but I didn’t even hear that part, although apparently the congregation heard it and they genuflected so quickly, I barely had a chance to bend my body an inch before everyone was back on their feet again!

To make it worse, the Pastor’s homily consisted of saying it is fitting that this particular mass should be a requiem mass because of the passion of our Lord.

A Requiem Mass??? That’s why I heard the choir singing Requiems.

So then after he stepped down into the aisles where there some candles laid out in the shape of a coffin and continued with a requiem mass. So that’s what a requiem mass is!

This is not to say I didn’t have a chance to worship during the mass, but I was a confused supplicant indeed.

Does it get to a point where you completely know what is going on even to the point of memorizing all the latin in the mass?

 

[laszlo]

Probably the color of the vestment was black, and you were in a requiem Mass, a Mass for a dead.

No Psalm 42 at the foot of the altar, no Gloria, no Credo, but after the Lesson there is Dies Irae.

The faithful probably genuflected on the Last Gospel, following the genuflection of the priest, this is in almost every traditional Mass. Homily at the end should be something after the Mass.

The traditional Mass like everything human balances between the uniformity and variety. We are humans, require both, and the forms are for us, God does not needs them.

 

[ProVobis]

Latin Mass, Tridentine Mass, Extraordinary Mass… .Whatever you want to call it.

It’s beautiful, mysterious and reverent.

But do you really understand what’s going on?

I was raised in the Latin Mass, have attended for the last 15 years, and I still feel an aura of mystery surrounding it. I thought that that’s what it’s intended to be. And there is always something to learn, especially if you’re studying the language of the Church.

 

[odile53]

Even though all there was, was the Latin Mass when I was a kid, I’ll be honest here. I’m lost without a missal. I can pick out some things on my own, but need to refer to the English translation. I love the reverence at the Latin Mass, but have found a couple of parishes which “do” the Novus Ordo Mass reverently, with plenty of dignity and solemnity, even though sometimes the music is more contemporary than my tastes run to. One is my regular parish, and one is a Jesuit community which offers Mass on weekdays, late in the afternoon, where I frequently stop for adoration and then Mass after work (a couple of times a week.) No music at that one, but particularly the homilies are very insightful and usually have me thinking for the rest of the evening. I feel cheated if I can’t get there at least a couple of times a week. Sorry I wandered with this.

I thought to post a poll to see how many here are that fluent in Latin, something like, “If you were time-transported to Rome in the year 102 AD, could you find a vendor and order some Roman fast food (whatever fast food used to be in those days!) using only Latin?” but thought better of it.

On second thought, maybe I will. I know I’d starve!

 

[Dempsey1919]

I know exactly what is going on in the Latin Mass because I have studied it and experienced it for the last 5 years. When I attended the EF for the first time, I was completely lost. However, with time, I began to understand and follow along with no difficulty whatsoever. These days, I know most of the Ordinary by heart and only need to use by Missal for the variables such as the collect. If you attend the Latin Mass regularly, you will eventually be able to follow along with no difficulty.

 

[JRKH]

Latin Mass, Tridentine Mass, Extraordinary Mass… .Whatever you want to call it.

It’s beautiful, mysterious and reverent.

But do you really understand what’s going on?

Yesterday I went to a Latin mass armed with my missalette. A week earlier I had purchased a book called the Latin Mass Explained by moorman. This was my third Latin mass. The last one I had attended was about a month ago. I felt confident that I knew and understood a lot more than I did a month ago.

Then why was I still lost?

This was a missa cantata which right away had me flipping through the missalette.

(Snip)

Welcome to the beautiful rich world of the Catholic Church.
To answer your title question, no I don’t “really”( as in fully) understand all that goes on in the mass whether it be Latin or English. The mass is simply that rich…

That being sid though I can appreciate that you had taken the time, and made the effort to prepare yourself and then walked into something quite unexpected…I would have been just as confused as you were…
My suspicion is that this was something specific to the Easter season in that parish.

Does it get to a point where you completely know what is going on even to the point of memorizing all the latin in the mass?

Well yes and no. The Liturgical calender is rich, and more espeically so in those parishes using the EF. As you become more familiar with the calendar and the different variations of the EF, you will gradually become moe comfortable. As to memorizing all the Latin…Not likely…Even the priest uses a book…
As time goes on you will become more and more comfortable with the language itself, (pronunciation etc) and perhaps even buy yourself an EF missal that will contain all the various interpolations of the mass etc.
Even then, you might occasionally find yourself lost. When that happens to me, I just turn myself over to the music, the sounds, the smells, and the joy of worshipping with my whole being. Caught up in a “whole-body” experience not unlike what I imagine the charismatics feel when speaking in tongues…

Hang in there my friend…You are doing fine.

Peace
James

 

[TrueLight]

I was raised in the Latin Mass, have attended for the last 15 years, and I still feel an aura of mystery surrounding it. I thought that that’s what it’s intended to be. And there is always something to learn, especially if you’re studying the language of the Church.

15 Years. That’s awesome. I’d love to know more about what it’s like at 15 years.

Mystery is good. I never want it to lose that.

But I’d like to know what’s going on.

For example, in the Latin Mass Explained book, I read that during the Canon portion of the Mass, it is as if the Priest has entered into the Holy of Holies and all the prayers are said very quietly as if the Priest is conversing with God alone.

It helps me to know that. While he’s praying in inaudible whisper, I am adding my prayers to his.

It’s good to know why at some point the Priest kisses the altar.

Maybe, I’m just one of those people that needs to know.

I’d love to hear some other experiences.

 

[laszlo]

I was raised in the Latin Mass, have attended for the last 15 years, and I still feel an aura of mystery surrounding it. I thought that that’s what it’s intended to be. And there is always something to learn, especially if you’re studying the language of the Church.

I feel the same thing attending the Masses in any form. The form is just our imperfection any way: God is the important.

 

[TrueLight]

Well yes and no. The Liturgical calender is rich, and more espeically so in those parishes using the EF. As you become more familiar with the calendar and the different variations of the EF, you will gradually become moe comfortable.

That’s good to know!

As to memorizing all the Latin…Not likely…Even the priest uses a book…
As time goes on you will become more and more comfortable with the language itself, (pronunciation etc) and perhaps even buy yourself an EF missal that will contain all the various interpolations of the mass etc.

I’m good with the pronunciation, having studied Spanish and French and even one semester of Italian

Does the EF missal change yearly? How often would I need to buy it?

Even then, you might occasionally find yourself lost. When that happens to me, I just turn myself over to the music, the sounds, the smells, and the joy of worshipping with my whole being. Caught up in a “whole-body” experience not unlike what I imagine the charismatics feel when speaking in tongues…

Yes, that’s what I tried to do.

Hang in there my friend…You are doing fine.

I do tend to be impatient. I have to remind myself that I am but an embryo in the Catholic Faith and I need to be patient.

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[GloriousOrder]

Do you really know what’s going on when you pray? Like most people, you and I probably both tend to talk to God as if He’s a friend. Most of us really do not realise that we are trying to communicate with the Almighty, the Majesty, the Immortal; the abyss of virtue, the perfect King of time, space, existence, and reality. To be able to approach Him is something so awesome - and so awful - that we should be trembling.

Do you really know what’s going on when you kneel and speak to Jesus Christ our Lord? We can only talk to God our Father by the merits of Christ our Lord. If He had not initiated this divine conversation between mortality and eternity, we would not be able to approach Him. In the old covenant, He chose those He communicated with and used them to spread the word. He appeared in great clouds of fury and glory. Now, thanks to our blessed Saviour, we may open the door and peek into the eternal mysterious of infinity that is God, our Creator.

Do you really understand what’s going on in the Mass? Even in the vernacular Mass, I have absolutely no idea what’s really going on. Even trying to impose ideas of angels hovering over the altar, or the army of saints praising God in the choir… these things are imagined, and not the full truth of the Mass. Any valid Mass or Divine Liturgy in the Holy Church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ is FAR beyond our understanding.

If Pope Leo XIII could enter into a frightful vision of a conversation between our Lord and Satan during the Holy Mass and come out shaking, what can we normal non-ordained people even expect to understand about it? Remember that our urge to understand as individuals and be understood as individuals is a profoundly new idea, which originated mostly in the 18th century. Authentic understanding of worship is losing oneself in the holy unending mystery of the history of the universe.

I believe the point here is that some things are done so: “seeing they might see not, and hearing they might hear not”. We are very stupid, as the order of created things go. If even the angelic hosts cannot understand or penetrate the depths of God our Father, why should we expect to? Mass is for His glory and honour, not our own democratic understanding.

 

[TrueLight]

Do you really know what’s going on when you pray? Like most people, you and I probably both tend to talk to God as if He’s a friend. Most of us really do not realise that we are trying to communicate with the Almighty, the Majesty, the Immortal; the abyss of virtue, the perfect King of time, space, existence, and reality. To be able to approach Him is something so awesome - and so awful - that we should be trembling.

Yes indeed. Just reading your words made me shiver. What an awesome thing to be able to approach the Creator through Jesus Christ.

Do you really understand what’s going on in the Mass? Even in the vernacular Mass, I have absolutely no idea what’s really going on. Even trying to impose ideas of angels hovering over the altar, or the army of saints praising God in the choir… these things are imagined, and not the full truth of the Mass. Any valid Mass or Divine Liturgy in the Holy Church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ is FAR beyond our understanding.

I’m not sure I agree with this. We may not completely understand, but in the vernacular mass, surely we have some idea of what’s going on? God is the giver of understanding. Could we not ask God to open our minds?

If Pope Leo XIII could enter into a frightful vision of a conversation between our Lord and Satan during the Holy Mass…

I’d love to read more about this.

 

[JRKH]

That’s good to know!
I’m good with the pronunciation, having studied Spanish and French and even one semester of Italian

Well you are ahead of me then…
As a boy I learned the Latin to serve mass, but then they changed to English before I had a chance to use it… Little by little some is coming back…

Does the EF missal change yearly? How often would I need to buy it?

No the EF missal does not change. Once you purchase one your good for the forseeable future.

I do tend to be impatient. I have to remind myself that I am but an embryo in the Catholic Faith and I need to be patient.

Thanks for the encouragement.

You are welcome.
Being impatient with ourselves is not a bad thing - in moderation…
We should wish to run, not walk, to our dear Lord in prayer and worship. We just need to remember that if we run too quickly or too long, we will get winded and then we need to slow up a bit so that we don’t stumble…

Peace
James

 

[utah_rose]

I was raised in the Latin Mass, have attended for the last 15 years, and I still feel an aura of mystery surrounding it. I thought that that’s what it’s intended to be. And there is always something to learn, especially if you’re studying the language of the Church.

I was too, and the Requiem Mass (I really wasn’t sure they did this Mass in the TLM) is the only Mass that bothers me. I think it was because I went to Parochial school and one of my classmates mother died when she was nine, and the whole school I think attended the Mass.I can still remember this child following the casket and how gloomy it seemed, so I’m glad that that Mass was changed.

Otherwise, we do attend the TLM Mass about every few weeks, and we bought a 1962 Missal. You can get lost very quickly especially if it’s a “Low Mass” with no choir. But the beauty of it is you can still see very many places in this Mass which are in the new One. Yes, you have to go through 2 Epistles and Gospels, one in Latin and the other English, and the last Gospel of St. John which is beautiful but omitted in the new one.

I who was raised in this Mass still get a little confused. But I do remember that many people (usually older women) would be praying the Rosary rather than paying attention to Mass. The one I attend now though is very reverent—they even have a Holy Hour before the Mass and Benediction!

Now, at least at our parish, there’s too much going on with the new one and not enough “quiet time”, It bothers me because attending Mass is not a “get together” with the other parishioners, it is the Eucharist and should be treated as such.

 

[GloriousOrder]

I’m not sure I agree with this. We may not completely understand, but in the vernacular mass, surely we have some idea of what’s going on? God is the giver of understanding. Could we not ask God to open our minds?

Why should you demand any right to know what’s going on? The people watching Calvary and mocking our blessed Lord didn’t understand. Even the Apostles didn’t see the reality of the situation as it was happening! Only St. John, Mary Magdalen, and our Lord’s blessed mother stayed by His side until the dark and bitter end. They saw the light of glory and the triumph of Heaven despite the evil death which overcame our Savior.

I submit to you that the mystery of the Latin Mass lends itself to quiet and reverent prayer on the part of the laity. When you see the wine and water being brought out and the collection plates being brought around at the Offertorium, offer your prayers and petitions with thanksgiving! The primary point of the Mass for the laity is two-fold: 1. to receive the holy body of Christ our Lord, and 2. to enter the veil of Heaven with the priest so our prayers literally touch the face of God Almighty.

It’s not a time for understanding on our part, but a time for pure faith and non-intellectual worship.

I’d love to read more about this.

It is a pious story about the origin of the prayer “Saint Michael (the Archangel), defend us in battle…”, invoking our holy general who plans to overthrow Satan and cast him into the abyss during the final battle in the ancient war which rages around us even now. The power of this prayer to our angelic brother, who leads the hosts and armies of Heaven, is great indeed. Faithful baptised Christians in the state of grace pray it and are filled with the conviction that angels minister to them in aid of their spiritual fight.

The story itself can be read in summary here: (read the prayer first, then the “speculation about the origins”)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_to_Saint_Michael

 

[TrueLight]

It is a pious story about the origin of the prayer “Saint Michael (the Archangel), defend us in battle…”, invoking our holy general who plans to overthrow Satan and cast him into the abyss during the final battle in the ancient war which rages around us even now. The power of this prayer to our angelic brother, who leads the hosts and armies of Heaven, is great indeed. Faithful baptised Christians in the state of grace pray it and are filled with the conviction that angels minister to them in aid of their spiritual fight.

The story itself can be read in summary here: (read the prayer first, then the “speculation about the origins”)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_to_Saint_Michael

Oh thanks! Not to derail this into a St Michael’s thread, but I just found this beautiful tribute to the St Michael’s Prayer on YouTube. This is one prayer I intend to start saying.

Question: Why is Michael the Archangel called a Saint?

 

[GloriousOrder]

Saint, etymologically, derives from the Latin word sanctus, which means “holy”. Michael is one of the Angels who stayed loyal to God, and so is called holy. He did this despite the mysterious revelation of God’s plan to redeem man, infinitely below the angels, by His incarnation. Satan fell because of his rebellious wish to be like God, in understanding and in power. His evil action, in destroying our original justice by corrupting Eve with his suggestions and coaxing, has sealed him forever as the enemy of true faith and good will.

There is something of the thread topic in this… I think.

 

[TrueLight]

Saint, etymologically, derives from the Latin word sanctus, which means “holy”. Michael is one of the Angels who stayed loyal to God, and so is called holy. He did this despite the mysterious revelation of God’s plan to redeem man, infinitely below the angels, by His incarnation. Satan fell because of his rebellious wish to be like God, in understanding and in power. His evil action, in destroying our original justice by corrupting Eve with his suggestions and coaxing, has sealed him forever as the enemy of true faith and good will.

There is something of the thread topic in this… I think.

I see. Thank you. I always thought it was only used in relation to holy Christian believers. You learn something new every day.

 

[ProVobis]

Do you really understand what’s going on in the Mass? Even in the vernacular Mass, I have absolutely no idea what’s really going on. Even trying to impose ideas of angels hovering over the altar, or the army of saints praising God in the choir… these things are imagined, and not the full truth of the Mass. Any valid Mass or Divine Liturgy in the Holy Church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ is FAR beyond our understanding.

Well stated.

 

[ProVobis]

I thought to post a poll to see how many here are that fluent in Latin

That’s really irrelevant. Unlike a Polish Mass where your Polish skills (and perhaps memory) will be tested, the EF won’t be testing your Latin skills. You will get full graces of the Mass even if you don’t know a single word of Latin. Of course, the more Latin you learn, the more you will appreciate and love the EF, but it’s certainly not required that you do. You shouldn’t be distracted with the political and social correctness of any translations. Sursum corda. (Hearts upwards!)

 

[Kouyate42]

I’m going to be a show-off here- I can understand the Latin Mass in the entirety, as I know fluent Church and Classical Latin.