Fess Up! Do You Really Know What's Going On In the Latin Mass?

  • Thread starter Thread starter TrueLight
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
InquisitorMax said:
The Latin Mass is the bridge between Heaven and Earth: the mystic realm and the mundane.

Waving one’s hands about, figuratively speaking, and saying “Why can’t we all get long?” adds zero to the discussion.

“Jesus Loves Us, wants unity and therefore let’s not argue for the Latin Mass” is a non-argument within the bounds of this forum.
Click to expand...
I love the picture your creating ; yes i’m waving desperately like a man drowning surely Christ asks us to all get along and my question Why can’t we all get long? is valid when I see this Latin Mass obsession as just another distraction from the true fight. And its a debate I think is pernicious in its possible consequences. And whatever form of thread is put together its all just one debate which I dont believe the Church has the time nor energy to get involved in when there is so much more important issues that need to be addresses like where are the Priests of the future to say any mass. 😦

Ps its the Sacrement of the Eucharist thats the mystical bridge.
 
I checked the above link but I disagree that young people cant understand older hymns; some hyms speak to all generations Amazing Grace being one . But I do believe every generation should have a new song for the Lord so I would agree to bringing in more modern hymns too.
 
thirddec said:
I checked the above link but I disagree that young people cant understand older hymns; some hyms speak to all generations Amazing Grace being one .
Click to expand...
I think the author of the blog would agree, since he makes mention at the beginning that: “A director of music at a Catholic parish, obviously of long experience, sent me a list he has been keeping of things that people believe that are not so.”

And among the things “not so” is that young people can only understand the pap they’ve been listening to in our parishes.
 
thirddec said:
I checked the above link but I disagree that young people cant understand older hymns; some hyms speak to all generations Amazing Grace being one . But I do believe every generation should have a new song for the Lord so I would agree to bringing in more modern hymns too.
Click to expand...
'Fess up, now: Are you actually trolling, here?
 
well im led to believe a troll is someone who starts questions or tries to subvert questions in order to cause problems for the catholic faith as defended in this forum. I’m not but what I will do is speak my mind and I will fight anything which I feel needs fighting for the good of the Catholic church as a whole even if it upsets that group. In reality my primary objective is to try to bring the focus of the debates back to unity. The other reason I write in this forum is I feel a great empathy for those suffering spiritually because of sin as I have too much experience and I try to offer them hope and positive advise.

If you are at the wrong end of one of my crusades then I can understand why you may think i’m a troll ( believe me I have doubts about myself on these crusades lol ; as I know at heart we are all brothers and sisters ).

So you can decide if i’m a troll or just a nuisence who can’t spell 😃
 
InquisitorMax said:
The Latin Mass is the bridge between Heaven and Earth: the mystic realm and the mundane.
Click to expand...
Every Mass with a valid Consecration unites Heaven and Earth - it may not always be a sensuous form of art, in every case, but a valid Consecration is the necessary element that joins Heaven and Earth - Latin, incense, and all the other trappings do not, in and of themselves, have any such effect. 🙂

I like the Latin Mass - I also like Eastern Masses, and I like the Masses at my local parish. I went to a kids’ Mass this morning, and I found Jesus there, too - and I liked that the kids were enjoying it. They will not always be children, but for as long as there are children in the world, there will be a time and a place for children’s Masses, with all of their simplicity and enthusiasm. 🙂
 
GloriousOrder said:
Why should you demand any right to know what’s going on? The people watching Calvary and mocking our blessed Lord didn’t understand. Even the Apostles didn’t see the reality of the situation as it was happening! Only St. John, Mary Magdalen, and our Lord’s blessed mother stayed by His side until the dark and bitter end. They saw the light of glory and the triumph of Heaven despite the evil death which overcame our Savior. 🙂

I submit to you that the mystery of the Latin Mass lends itself to quiet and reverent prayer on the part of the laity. When you see the wine and water being brought out and the collection plates being brought around at the Offertorium, offer your prayers and petitions with thanksgiving! The primary point of the Mass for the laity is two-fold: 1. to receive the holy body of Christ our Lord, and 2. to enter the veil of Heaven with the priest so our prayers literally touch the face of God Almighty.

It’s not a time for understanding on our part, but a time for pure faith and non-intellectual worship.

We worship with our bodies, minds and spirits. Our senses and understandings assist us in entering into the contemplation of the mysteries. God uses all manner of things to bring us to the point when we can participate fully and consciously in the Holy Mass. It is here we are formed and informed of all those things which prevent unity. The experience is holistic and knowledge (while it is received not only in the intellect) means intimacy and the Eucharistic Celebration is intimacy sublime. The Lord makes use of our emotions that come from our understanding as they promote adoration, humility, sorrow and joy.

So that when He presents us to His Father for the nuptial blessing our entire humanity is present. There is far too much beauty to be ignored by the intellect! I say ask!

Blessings,
Non nisi te Domine

It is good to seek understanding. We are a people of faith and reason. While much remains in mystery because our limited minds could not tolerate the excruciating profound truth of His Great Love, in every age the saints have spoken of these mysteries and the adoration their knowledge has led them to. If more would understand more deeply the Mass there would be less division and a greater effort to correct those errors that disrupt the work of the Holy Spirit in praying through us.
Click to expand...
 
jmcrae said:
Every Mass with a valid Consecration unites Heaven and Earth - it may not always be a sensuous form of art, in every case, but a valid Consecration is the necessary element that joins Heaven and Earth - Latin, incense, and all the other trappings do not, in and of themselves, have any such effect.
Click to expand...
Well, if the idea is to honour God and impress upon the ignorant that it’s a special occasion, then a High Latin Mass or the Orthodox rites are the way to go. More beauty, please, more reverence, more ornament, more beautiful hymns, more exclusivity, less casualisation, less minimalism.

I honestly think some people won’t be happy until they can get, not just in the sanctuary, but right in the tabernacle! In their jeans and sneakers! Do they think they are going to become holier by doing that?

And as for minimalism in diocesan Churches: arrrrrgh!
 
InquisitorMax said:
Well, if the idea is to honour God and impress upon the ignorant that it’s a special occasion, then a High Latin Mass or the Orthodox rites are the way to go. More beauty, please, more reverence, more ornament, more beautiful hymns, more exclusivity, less casualisation, less minimalism.

I honestly think some people won’t be happy until they can get, not just in the sanctuary, but right in the tabernacle! In their jeans and sneakers! Do they think they are going to become holier by doing that?

And as for minimalism in diocesan Churches: arrrrrgh!
Click to expand...
While I definitely like and enjoy the Latin mass, and indeed any mass that is properly and reverently offered, I must deny the idea expressed in your second paragraph. Our Lord was born in a stable. For three years He wandered the Roads and byways teaching and preaching to people as they were. He took issue with the Pharisees for their fancy robes and their love of pomp.

And I must ask the question - Just how do you think the room was decorated where teh first mass was offered? What were teh participants wearing?

I say again, I love a beautiful Church and a Latin High mass and Any mass reverently celebrated as much as anyone. But to say that those in “jeans and sneakers” who seek to be as near to Jesus as possible are not somehow seeking holiness is just plain silly.

Holiness is in the heart and not on the hips or on the feet. The beauty of the Mass in what takes place upon the altar and not in what the surroundings are.
When he was a priest in Poland, one of JP II’s favorite things was to take a group of students out into the wilds and he would say mass under the canopy of God’s creation.
I can think of nothing more glorious than that.

Let us try to remain focused on what is important in the mass.
Let us try to make room for all sorts of spiritualities and expressions, within the proper rules and guidelines of course.

Peace
James
 
How many people in a NOVUS ORDO Mass know what’s REALLY going on during Mass? (Cue statistics for “Catholics” who don’t know about transubstantiation and the Real Presence.)

Sometimes understanding the general purpose of a practice is more important than understanding its minor details. :cool:
 
JRKH said:
Our Lord was born in a stable. For three years He wandered the Roads and byways teaching and preaching to people as they were. He took issue with the Pharisees for their fancy robes and their love of pomp.

And I must ask the question - Just how do you think the room was decorated where teh first mass was offered? What were teh participants wearing?
Click to expand...
This is false antiquarianism. The argument: because Mass was once a simpler affair, it should now be so, also.

Minimalism, at a rite to propitiate God, when people drive up to it in motor cars, dressed in fine clothes, with money in their pockets, is a mistake. It’s perverse, in fact.

Just what is a local church, in existence for 100 years, saying to God when the altar boys/girls are dressed in alb ‘n’ sneakers, for example?

It’s an attempt to return to a time that never existed: humans who didn’t give the best they had, when worshipping God. Like the Magi, for example.

The remark about people trying to get into the tabernacle: well, with the laity taking over more priest’s roles, that’s the only place left to go. I saw a cleaning lady crooning by and caressing the tabernacle in one church I know. Not long, now.

The Church has been behaving like a middle-aged man trying to rediscover his youth.
 
JRKH said:
When he was a priest in Poland, one of JP II’s favorite things was to take a group of students out into the wilds and he would say mass under the canopy of God’s creation.
I can think of nothing more glorious than that.
Click to expand...
Indeed. And during the war, there were many Masses held outside with members of both sides joining in to pray the Mass. Would they have done so if they didn’t know what Mass was?
 
JRKH said:
When he was a priest in Poland, one of JP II’s favorite things was to take a group of students out into the wilds and he would say mass under the canopy of God’s creation.
I can think of nothing more glorious than that.
Click to expand...
Indeed. And during the war, there were many Masses held outside with members, many of them soldiers, of both sides joining in to pray the Mass together. Would they have done so if they didn’t know what Mass was?
 
InquisitorMax said:
Well, if the idea is to honour God and impress upon the ignorant that it’s a special occasion, then a High Latin Mass or the Orthodox rites are the way to go. More beauty, please, more reverence, more ornament, more beautiful hymns, more exclusivity, less casualisation, less minimalism.

I honestly think some people won’t be happy until they can get, not just in the sanctuary, but right in the tabernacle! In their jeans and sneakers! Do they think they are going to become holier by doing that?

And as for minimalism in diocesan Churches: arrrrrgh!
Click to expand...
MMMh Christ himself seemed to have a habit of minimalism and lack of stuffiness. Not saying he did it all the time but clearly he didn’t have a major problem with it. Quality counts over Quantity. Ten Commandments he shrinks to two, the incident with the children are two that come to mind. I’m sure you guys could find loads more examples if you wanted to. 😃

just remembered but not sure was it the supposed ex prostitute that washed The Lords feet and dried it with her hair?
 
Fess Up! Do You Really Know What’s Going On In the Latin Mass?
Click to expand...
When I first started attending the Extraordinary Form two years ago… no I didn’t really know what was going on (liturgically speaking). I then attended on-and-off until recently when I have began serving. Today I would say I am quite confident in knowing what’s going on most of the time (except for Palm Sunday when I was completely lost, but that was just an off day).

On the Latin Mass in general… I believe the vernacular liturgy should be suppressed and the traditional form of the Latin liturgy re-established as the ordinary form of worship in the Latin Church. I don’t think I can underscore this enough… we’re the Latin Church. Latin is the language of our great theological works, of our conciliar canons and documents, of our saints and clerics. And should remain so in our form of worship. Latin is absolutely necessary if you wish to truly delve into the heritage of the Latin Church, if you want to understand Aquinas or Augustine you need Latin.

But even then you do not need such a working knowledge of Latin to understand what liturgically is happening at Mass. It is not that hard to understand what “Et cum spíritú túo” or “Quia tu es, Deus, fortitúdo mea: quare me repulísti, et quare tristis incédo, dum afflígit me inimícus?” means. And even if you cannot manage that there are other ways in which you can follow along at Mass. But there can be no excuse from dragging the Mass down to your level. Mass lifts men up, men should not bring it down.

The “Extraordinary Form” of the Roman Rite is simply a superior liturgy and must be re-established as the ordinary form of worship in every Latin parish.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top