Fess Up! Do You Really Know What's Going On In the Latin Mass?

[thirddec]

[The “Extraordinary Form” of the Roman Rite is simply a superior liturgy and must be re-established as the ordinary form of worship in every Latin parish.
[/QUOTE]

well to be honest if your going to go latin you might as well go the whole hog

 

[Te_Deum]

Well I’m not all bad. I have a bit of a rebellious streak in me! For instance I believe we should have blue introduced as a valid liturgical-colour for Marian feasts in the Latin Church .

 

[ProVobis]

… And even if you cannot manage that there are other ways in which you can follow along at Mass. But there can be no excuse from dragging the Mass down to your level. Mass lifts men up, men should not bring it down.

1000 Points.

 

[TrueLight]

On the Latin Mass in general… I believe the vernacular liturgy should be suppressed and the traditional form of the Latin liturgy re-established as the ordinary form of worship in the Latin Church.

Don’t hold back now!

 

[jmcrae]

Well, if the idea is to honour God and impress upon the ignorant that it’s a special occasion, then a High Latin Mass or the Orthodox rites are the way to go. More beauty, please, more reverence, more ornament, more beautiful hymns, more exclusivity, less casualisation, less minimalism.

I honestly think some people won’t be happy until they can get, not just in the sanctuary, but right in the tabernacle! In their jeans and sneakers! Do they think they are going to become holier by doing that?

And as for minimalism in diocesan Churches: arrrrrgh!

I am also not a fan of minimalism - and I truly sympathize. Give me a thousand-voice choir in a Gothic cathedral stuffed full of every kind of artwork and ornate kind of furnishings, dress the cadre of 20 well-trained seven year old Altar boys in lacy albs, and I’m there.

I would just caution against mistaking that for the essential element of the Mass - the Consecration - or else we will all end up Mormons, or Lutherans.

 

[JRKH]

When I first started attending the Extraordinary Form two years ago… no I didn’t really know what was going on (liturgically speaking). I then attended on-and-off until recently when I have began serving. Today I would say I am quite confident in knowing what’s going on most of the time (except for Palm Sunday when I was completely lost, but that was just an off day).

On the Latin Mass in general… I believe the vernacular liturgy should be suppressed and the traditional form of the Latin liturgy re-established as the ordinary form of worship in the Latin Church. I don’t think I can underscore this enough… we’re the Latin Church. Latin is the language of our great theological works, of our conciliar canons and documents, of our saints and clerics. And should remain so in our form of worship. Latin is absolutely necessary if you wish to truly delve into the heritage of the Latin Church, if you want to understand Aquinas or Augustine you need Latin.

But even then you do not need such a working knowledge of Latin to understand what liturgically is happening at Mass. It is not that hard to understand what “Et cum spíritú túo” or “Quia tu es, Deus, fortitúdo mea: quare me repulísti, et quare tristis incédo, dum afflígit me inimícus?” means. And even if you cannot manage that there are other ways in which you can follow along at Mass. But there can be no excuse from dragging the Mass down to your level. Mass lifts men up, men should not bring it down.

The “Extraordinary Form” of the Roman Rite is simply a superior liturgy and must be re-established as the ordinary form of worship in every Latin parish.

You of course are entitled to your opinion but I don’t see the Holy Father taking you up on your suggestion.

In Chrisitan Charity, I believe that the expansion and inclusion of the EF not served by expressing such opinions as this. I don’t say whether you are right or wrong, but such comments will inevitably create a defensive attitude in many people and inhibit the acceptance of the EF.
Far better to promote precisely what the Holy father has asked for in one of his letters (sorry I don’t remember which one). That is that the EF be made available in every parish at least occasionally and that seminaries train new priests to celibrate the EF alongside the OF.

Peace
James

 

[ProVobis]

That is that the EF be made available in every parish at least occasionally and that seminaries train new priests to celibrate the EF alongside the OF.

Jim, I would slightly disagree with this. Occasional exposure to Latin isn’t going to make the Mass more understandable, EF or OF. Neither would occasional use of Latin by a priest make him Latin-sharp, if you will. If you’re going to train someone in Latin, you’re going to have to reinforce it at least once a week, if not every day. If daily Mass can’t be arranged, at least provide some daily Latin prayers or other Latin activity. Vatican II ordered that Latin be retained in the liturgy with a period at the end of the sentence. It isn’t anti-Magisterium or anti-Church to ask for daily exposure to Latin. The SC directive wasn’t directed just at scholars.

 

[InquisitorMax]

MMMh Christ himself seemed to have a habit of minimalism and lack of stuffiness. Not saying he did it all the time but clearly he didn’t have a major problem with it. Quality counts over Quantity. Ten Commandments he shrinks to two, the incident with the children are two that come to mind. I’m sure you guys could find loads more examples if you wanted to.

just remembered but not sure was it the supposed ex prostitute that washed The Lords feet and dried it with her hair?

Here’s the text. Read who objected to glorifying the Lord with the best to hand:
newadvent.org/bible/joh012.htm#vrs4

He’s the King Of The Universe. So, people want to tone down His worship? Even better, rip out handsome effects from existing rites and places?

Funnily enough, I’ve read that it’s often poor parishes who have the nicest churches. If so, they know what we owe Him.

 

[TrueLight]

At the risk of being called impatient, or not willing to suffer for our Lord, or what have you, here is the situation:

My friend wants to attend the EF Easter Vigil. I attend both the EF mass and also a very reverent OF Mass at another parish.

One day after daily mass, a parishioner from the OF mass asked me if I was attending Easter Vigil at that church. I told her that I was attending an EF vigil. She said, "Oh you must come here. The Easter vigil is fantastic!

So now I will probably attend the OF because 1) I want to see how the RCIA class is welcomed into the church because I will be in that program come September.

The other very big reason is that I really don’t want to stand for long readings in Latin, even though I am sure the mass will be beautiful.

I was actually thinking of attending the OF vigil at 8PM and then going to the EF vigil for an hour or so (that starts at 11). Is that too much?

Either way, since I don’t have a latin missal, I don’t really want to be standing for long readings while barely understanding a word.

This ties in to the whole thing about understanding what is going on in the Latin mass. Why can’t the readings be in English?

 

[ProVobis]

This ties in to the whole thing about understanding what is going on in the Latin mass. Why can’t the readings be in English?

Why is the English so special? Why not Spanish or Polish? Would you have a problem if your friend were Vietnamese and he/she asked you to attend the OF entirely in that language? I think you would make at least a slight effort to try to understand it, at least enough to realize the effort itself is a prayer to God, with or without a Missal.

 

[JRKH]

Jim, I would slightly disagree with this. Occasional exposure to Latin isn’t going to make the Mass more understandable, EF or OF. Neither would occasional use of Latin by a priest make him Latin-sharp, if you will. If you’re going to train someone in Latin, you’re going to have to reinforce it at least once a week, if not every day. If daily Mass can’t be arranged, at least provide some daily Latin prayers or other Latin activity. Vatican II ordered that Latin be retained in the liturgy with a period at the end of the sentence. It isn’t anti-Magisterium or anti-Church to ask for daily exposure to Latin. The SC directive wasn’t directed just at scholars.

I do not disagree with any of this. I was merely suggesting that we need to support the Holy Father in his requests to The Church as a whole and to seminaries in particular.

I wholeheartedly agree that there needs to be a greater emphasis on the understanding and use of Latin by our priests, and by the laity, since Latin remains the language of Magisterial documents etc.

But we also must accept that this will take some time to implement.

Peace
James

 

[crazzeto]

I can honestly say I was really getting into the swing of it until my Eucharistic ministering schedule got in the way. It’s only offered on the first Sunday in the Cathedral =( I pray I will have more oppertunity to go.

 

[JRKH]

At the risk of being called impatient, or not willing to suffer for our Lord, or what have you, here is the situation:

My friend wants to attend the EF Easter Vigil. I attend both the EF mass and also a very reverent OF Mass at another parish.

One day after daily mass, a parishioner from the OF mass asked me if I was attending Easter Vigil at that church. I told her that I was attending an EF vigil. She said, "Oh you must come here. The Easter vigil is fantastic!

So now I will probably attend the OF because 1) I want to see how the RCIA class is welcomed into the church because I will be in that program come September.

I think this is an excellent Idea since, as you say, you plan to be received intot he Church through this parish next year.

The other very big reason is that I really don’t want to stand for long readings in Latin, even though I am sure the mass will be beautiful.

This is understandable. Only you can know how fast to move on these matters.

I was actually thinking of attending the OF vigil at 8PM and then going to the EF vigil for an hour or so (that starts at 11). Is that too much?

If you feel up to it, no it is not “too much”

Either way, since I don’t have a latin missal, I don’t really want to be standing for long readings while barely understanding a word.

This ties in to the whole thing about understanding what is going on in the Latin mass. Why can’t the readings be in English?

For now, just be patient with yourself. It will all come to you.

Peace
James

 

[thirddec]

Here’s the text. Read who objected to glorifying the Lord with the best to hand:
newadvent.org/bible/joh012.htm#vrs4

He’s the King Of The Universe. So, people want to tone down His worship? Even better, rip out handsome effects from existing rites and places?

Funnily enough, I’ve read that it’s often poor parishes who have the nicest churches. If so, they know what we owe Him.

And Jesus found a young *** and sat upon it, as it is written: Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold your king comes, sitting on an ***’ colt.

I read the whole page ; We could play all day like this but where I will never denigrate the person who wants to sit at the front singing Ave Maria at the top of their voice dressed in fullest splendor If that is how they feel called nor should I hope would you the quiet old dear in her Simple brown duffle coat quietly saying her prayers and meditating on them at the back of the church.

Never in any of my posts unless I was particularly angry with some arrogant poster and therefore responding with that still in mind will you find that I ever considered one form of worship above or below another but rather there is a place for all and we should make sure we Keep a place for all. AAAARRGH so tempted to respond in anger to some posts that have that tone of superiority in them over humility but I wont

Lol the *** is a three letter word for a donkey

 

[odile53]

Just my own intellectual musings here: I would still like to know how, if I were suddenly time-transported to ancient Rome, I could request and get a meal in the market, and what a Roman version of “fast food in the market” would have been!

 

[ProVobis]

Just my own intellectual musings here: I would still like to know how, if I were suddenly time-transported to ancient Rome, I could request and get a meal in the market, and what a Roman version of “fast food in the market” would have been!

Maybe you can draw them a picture of what you want. Or maybe you could smile and they’ll bring you the Happy Meal? Or maybe you can just order by Roman numerals. Almost like we do now.