Few will make it to Heaven?

[twf]

“THE doctors and fathers of the church?” Do you know how many there are, and do you honestly believe they all held this belief? Or even small percentage of them? You speak out of personal private study that is obviously errant, in order to magnify your point beyond anyone being able to counter it. By your activity on this thread and others, it is utterly clear that you are hell-bent on demoralizing the faithful with this “good news.” Which, incidentally, is not the gospel (good news). Would you win folks to the faith by preaching hell and damnation, and letting them believe they haven’t a snowball’s chance in hell of being among the elect?

Hope is a primary theological virtue, but what you preach is despair as evidenced by some who are frightened by your posts. Yet you blatantly persist with overkill, monitoring every post to be sure that others do not overrule your ‘gospel.’

However, these few saints and doctors of the Church are not the Magisterium, and to rely on their alleged opinion is foolish, unless the Church fully teaches likewise. It is ludicrous to point to Old Testament examples of the flood, Sodom, etc., to further your objective. These folks did not have the benefit of the sacraments to strengthen them in walking uprightly, as in our dispensation of the New Testament. Neither those in Noah’s time, nor those in Sodom had received the 10 Commandments, and were pagans. Lot chose to dwell among them, by his own bad choice, but since God saved only his family does not merit a justification to teach that most people today will therefore be damned. Do you see how unorthodox this is?

What value do you see in promoting this with such rigor?

Thank you Sirach. One of the private revelations cited earlier in this thread suggested that a mere 3 souls out of every 60 000 will be saved. If that were so, only 5 or 6 of us, out of the tens of thousands of users, here on CAF would even have a shot at salvation. What a terrifying prospect! Even if it is so, it only fills me with dread, not joy, to dwell on such a notion. Certainly we must “work out” our “salvation with fear and trembling” as the Apostle commands, but we must also be joyful and hopeful. There are, certainly, millions of Catholics around the world who regularly make their confession…we must have faith in the grace of that sacrament. In terms of the Doctors and Fathers…I believe there were some Fathers who actually proposed the opposite extreme, even toying with the idea of universal salvation (though the Church has never taught that either).

 

[littlestsouls2]

One of the private revelations cited earlier in this thread suggested that a mere 3 souls out of every 60 000 will be saved.

Just to clarify: the revelation only tells us how many were allegedly saved. I only bring this up because there is a common fallacy that these numbers represent the “odds” of being saved, which is misleading; we will be saved if we do God’s will.

Below is a more optimistic revelation relating to the number of the elect, taken from ‘The Glories of Mary’ by St. Alphonsus. Incidentally, I recall the first time that I read this. Earlier that day, I was troubled by a revelation similar to the one you referred to, so I asked Our Lord (and probably Our Lady) to give me some encouragement and optimism. I picked up ‘The Glories of Mary’, which a seminarian friend had just given to me, and this is what I read:

"The servant of the Lord, Sister Seraphina da Capri [who has since been declared Venerable], as we read in her life, in her prayers to the most holy Virgin during the Novena of her Assumption, asked of her the conversion of a thousand sinners; but as she feared that her demands were too extravagant, the Virgin appeared to her, and reproved her for this her vain fear, saying to her:

“Why do you fear? am I not powerful enough to obtain for thee from my Son the salvation of a thousand sinners? Behold them, I have already obtained it.”

She showed her the soul of innumerable sinners who had merited hell, and had afterwards been saved by her intercession, and were already enjoying eternal bliss."

God bless.

ps. Some of my earlier comments appear to have been deleted. I’m not sure why, but perhaps it is because they were branching off a bit from the main topic. I apologise.

Here is a link that I would like to re-post. It was written by a Jesuit priest, and was published in 1908 with an Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat. In this chapter (‘The Number of the Elect’), he offers some encouraging words:

archive.org/stream/jesusallgood00gall#page/108/mode/2up

 

[Sirach2]

Thank you for your thoughts, twf and Littlestsouls. It is wonderful to see a positive outlook. You are right that Mary intercedes for us … don’t we pray that every day countless times by countless pray-ers? “Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.” Her role as Mediatrix should fill us with confidence in her intercession.

Just a few more random thoughts …
Are either of you familiar with the extraordinary plenary indulgence that may be obtained at the time of one’s death, an exceptional grant that Holy Mother Church has bestowed on the faithful. It is worded thus in “Manual of Indulgences, pg. 54”:
A priest who administers the sacraments to someone in danger of death should not fail to impart the apostolic blessing to which a plenary indulgence is attached. If a priest is unavailable, Holy Mother Church benevolently grants to the Christian faithful, who are duly disposed, a plenary indulgence to be acquired at the point of death, provided they have been in the habit of reciting some prayers during their lifetime; in such a case, the Church supplies for the three conditions ordinarily required for a plenary indulgence. [Thanks be to God!]
We also have the beautiful revelation by St. Faustina:
**1698 **God’s mercy sometimes touches the sinner at the last moment in a wondrous and mysterious way. Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illumined by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment, while outwardly it shows no sign either of repentance or of contrition, because souls [at that stage] no longer react to external things.

Oh, how beyond comprehension is God’s mercy! Although a person is at the point of death, the merciful God gives the soul that interior vivid moment, so that if the soul is willing, it has the possibility of returning to God.

As we know, Pope [Saint] John Paul II believed in this Saint so completely and in her revelations of God’s Divine Mercy, that he instituted the Solemn Feast of Divine Mercy that we celebrate each year the week after Easter. Her writings, by Our Lord’s direct command, were given so that mankind could know and trust in His Mercy, which He has said is His greatest attribute - not His justice!

Our gospel in this year and season of New Evangelization should be filled with encouragement and our witness to God’s infinite love for all His children. No heart filled with dread and fear is capable of loving Him as he asks in the first and greatest commandment. I hope everyone can detect the work of our ancient enemy behind such a statement that few ever make it to heaven!

May we love Him with infinite passion!

 

[twf]

Thank you for your thoughts, twf and Littlestsouls. It is wonderful to see a positive outlook. You are right that Mary intercedes for us … don’t we pray that every day countless times by countless pray-ers? “Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.” Her role as Mediatrix should fill us with confidence in her intercession.

Just a few more random thoughts …
Are either of you familiar with the extraordinary plenary indulgence that may be obtained at the time of one’s death, an exceptional grant that Holy Mother Church has bestowed on the faithful. It is worded thus in “Manual of Indulgences, pg. 54”:
A priest who administers the sacraments to someone in danger of death should not fail to impart the apostolic blessing to which a plenary indulgence is attached. If a priest is unavailable, Holy Mother Church benevolently grants to the Christian faithful, who are duly disposed, a plenary indulgence to be acquired at the point of death, provided they have been in the habit of reciting some prayers during their lifetime; in such a case, the Church supplies for the three conditions ordinarily required for a plenary indulgence. [Thanks be to God!]
We also have the beautiful revelation by St. Faustina:
**1698 **God’s mercy sometimes touches the sinner at the last moment in a wondrous and mysterious way. Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illumined by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment, while outwardly it shows no sign either of repentance or of contrition, because souls [at that stage] no longer react to external things.

Oh, how beyond comprehension is God’s mercy! Although a person is at the point of death, the merciful God gives the soul that interior vivid moment, so that if the soul is willing, it has the possibility of returning to God.

As we know, Pope [Saint] John Paul II believed in this Saint so completely and in her revelations of God’s Divine Mercy, that he instituted the Solemn Feast of Divine Mercy that we celebrate each year the week after Easter. Her writings, by Our Lord’s direct command, were given so that mankind could know and trust in His Mercy, which He has said is His greatest attribute - not His justice!

Our gospel in this year and season of New Evangelization should be filled with encouragement and our witness to God’s infinite love for all His children. No heart filled with dread and fear is capable of loving Him as he asks in the first and greatest commandment. I hope everyone can detect the work of our ancient enemy behind such a statement that few ever make it to heaven!

May we love Him with infinite passion!

Beautiful post.
I am aware of the Apostolic Pardon and the extraordinary plenary indulgence available to the dying…but sadly most Catholics probably are not aware of these mercies!

 

[Sirach2]

Beautiful post.
I am aware of the Apostolic Pardon and the extraordinary plenary indulgence available to the dying…but sadly most Catholics probably are not aware of these mercies!

I don’t think they need to be aware, in order to receive it. But it certainly puts to death the idea that few make it to heaven, huh? Imagine!!! Bypassing purgatory with the Church’s merciful grant of a plenary…Amen! If many of us pray the Chaplet for the dying on a regular basis, who knows how far our prayers may reach in order to save a multitude of souls? St. Therese was given the title, along with St. Francis Xavior, of Patroness of Missionaries, since her cloistered life of ardent prayer and sacrifice for sinners was so intense that she merited this title. I’m fully certain that many such religious have dedicated their lives similarly.

I’m not sure which revelation you were referring to, since I did not read the whole thread, but if it’s the one by St. Leonard, this has been debunked many times at CAF, and also in this thread. I just realized after doing a search, that Theoda was active therein also, spreading more of the same dread…

 

[theoda]

“THE doctors and fathers of the church?” Do you know how many there are, and do you honestly believe they all held this belief? Or even small percentage of them? You speak out of personal private study that is obviously errant, in order to magnify your point beyond anyone being able to counter it. By your activity on this thread and others, it is utterly clear that you are hell-bent on demoralizing the faithful with this “good news.” Which, incidentally, is not the gospel (good news). Would you win folks to the faith by preaching hell and damnation, and letting them believe they haven’t a snowball’s chance in hell of being among the elect?

Hope is a primary theological virtue, but what you preach is despair as evidenced by some who are frightened by your posts. Yet you blatantly persist with overkill, monitoring every post to be sure that others do not overrule your ‘gospel.’

However, these few saints and doctors of the Church are not the Magisterium, and to rely on their alleged opinion is foolish, unless the Church fully teaches likewise. It is ludicrous to point to Old Testament examples of the flood, Sodom, etc., to further your objective. These folks did not have the benefit of the sacraments to strengthen them in walking uprightly, as in our dispensation of the New Testament. Neither those in Noah’s time, nor those in Sodom had received the 10 Commandments, and were pagans. Lot chose to dwell among them, by his own bad choice, but since God saved only his family does not merit a justification to teach that most people today will therefore be damned. Do you see how unorthodox this is?

What value do you see in promoting this with such rigor?

First of all, I have said all the doctors and fathers of the church who have spoken about the matter have said few are saved. I could be wrong, but I haven’t seen any father of the church speak against it. I encourage you to try to find one who says against it.

Second, I am not trying to frighten anyone into despair. I have said before that anyone who wants to go to heaven can. I want people to realize that few are saved because it js kind of like a wake-up call. Many people live in mortal sin but just say to themselves, “Oh, all you need to go to heaven is to be generally a good person. I’ll be fine.” You keep talking about the teaching as my “gospel”. My gospel is the gospel of Christ. If someone sees someone else doing wrong, does he not tell him out of fear of frightening him or scaring him, or does he punish him so they don’t make the same mistake next time. The reason why I am spending a lot of time on this thread is because I truly care for their salvation. I don’t want people thinking that it is easy to go to heaven, and then fall into mortal sin. And I am only responding to their counter arguments, can I not do that? Have you done the same before?
I preach hope, for anyone who wants to be saved will. Everyone who goes to hell chose to be in hell.

Third, I think it is good to rely on the doctors and fathers of the church. They are the ones who have devoted their life to God and have come up with a reasonable opinion. These people were able to live a saintly life and get to heaven, so let us follow their example and believe what they all agree with.

Fourth, if you think it is ludicrous to point to the Old Testament because they didn’t have the sacraments, then you are calling a lot of saint theologians ideas ludicrous. St Thomas Aquinas explains why few are saved,“Because eternal beatitude surpasses the natural state, especially since it has been deprived of original grace, it is the little number that are saved.”
Basically, we still have the same human nature, and it is difficult to go to heaven. Also,
your argument that we have the sacraments so many are saved doesn’t work because most people aren’t Catholic, they don’t have the sacraments. If you are saying the majority of Catholics are saved, then St Thomas Aquinas’s argument also works.

Finally, I’d you think few aaints think few are saved, please show me some saints who do think the majority are saved. No one has shown anything yet. Some people have shown 1 or 2 but didn’t even list what they said. I don’t

 

[theoda]

The Jews are the CHOSEN PEOPLE for the simple reason that God chose them.

God not only chose them but God formed them since Abraham was the first Jew.

The Jews are still the CHOSEN PEOPLE.

That’s simply not true, God’s church are his chosen people. We had a new covenant, we are the new Israel.

 

[theoda]

Thank you Sirach. One of the private revelations cited earlier in this thread suggested that a mere 3 souls out of every 60 000 will be saved. If that were so, only 5 or 6 of us, out of the tens of thousands of users, here on CAF would even have a shot at salvation. What a terrifying prospect! Even if it is so, it only fills me with dread, not joy, to dwell on such a notion. Certainly we must “work out” our “salvation with fear and trembling” as the Apostle commands, but we must also be joyful and hopeful. There are, certainly, millions of Catholics around the world who regularly make their confession…we must have faith in the grace of that sacrament. In terms of the Doctors and Fathers…I believe there were some Fathers who actually proposed the opposite extreme, even toying with the idea of universal salvation (though the Church has never taught that either).

Again, can you provide an example?

 

[theoda]

Thank you for your thoughts, twf and Littlestsouls. It is wonderful to see a positive outlook. You are right that Mary intercedes for us … don’t we pray that every day countless times by countless pray-ers? “Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.” Her role as Mediatrix should fill us with confidence in her intercession.

Just a few more random thoughts …
Are either of you familiar with the extraordinary plenary indulgence that may be obtained at the time of one’s death, an exceptional grant that Holy Mother Church has bestowed on the faithful. It is worded thus in “Manual of Indulgences, pg. 54”:
A priest who administers the sacraments to someone in danger of death should not fail to impart the apostolic blessing to which a plenary indulgence is attached. If a priest is unavailable, Holy Mother Church benevolently grants to the Christian faithful, who are duly disposed, a plenary indulgence to be acquired at the point of death, provided they have been in the habit of reciting some prayers during their lifetime; in such a case, the Church supplies for the three conditions ordinarily required for a plenary indulgence. [Thanks be to God!]
We also have the beautiful revelation by St. Faustina:
**1698 **God’s mercy sometimes touches the sinner at the last moment in a wondrous and mysterious way. Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illumined by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment, while outwardly it shows no sign either of repentance or of contrition, because souls [at that stage] no longer react to external things.

Oh, how beyond comprehension is God’s mercy! Although a person is at the point of death, the merciful God gives the soul that interior vivid moment, so that if the soul is willing, it has the possibility of returning to God.

As we know, Pope [Saint] John Paul II believed in this Saint so completely and in her revelations of God’s Divine Mercy, that he instituted the Solemn Feast of Divine Mercy that we celebrate each year the week after Easter. Her writings, by Our Lord’s direct command, were given so that mankind could know and trust in His Mercy, which He has said is His greatest attribute - not His justice!

Our gospel in this year and season of New Evangelization should be filled with encouragement and our witness to God’s infinite love for all His children. No heart filled with dread and fear is capable of loving Him as he asks in the first and greatest commandment. I hope everyone can detect the work of our ancient enemy behind such a statement that few ever make it to heaven!

May we love Him with infinite passion!

Seriously, you are saying that the stamwnr that few are saved are from the devil? That is unbelievable, I don’t know anyone could say such a thing. Unless…

Anyway, I don’t think you realize there are at least 10 different saints who say few are saved. According to you, they beliefs were influenced by the devil. They went to heaven, however.

No offense, but our ancient enemy is behind the statement that the majority are saved. It’s kind of like how the Devil wants people to think there is no God, so then they go to hell. The devil wants people to think many are saved, so then they go to hell because they relax too much.

Sometimes, I think the reason why people don’t believe few are saved is because of self-love. That is exactly the reason St. Leonard of Port Maurice gives. Im not accusing anyone on this thread of this, however.

 

[Sirach2]

Seriously, you are saying that the stamwnr that few are saved are from the devil? That is unbelievable, I don’t know anyone could say such a thing. Unless…

I didn’t say that. My inference of being influenced by the enemy of souls was meant for those who continually carp on this. Nobody who practices their faith by fear and trembling is really experiencing the joy and peace of the Holy Spirit … it is quite obvious that you are not, either, since you are obsessed with this matter to the point of using illogical and repetitive posts.

We’ve been through this merry-go-round before, and I have no intention of continuing discussion with you. Let’s just say my post was meant more or less for other readers, with an outside chance that it might influence your deaf ears.

 

[theoda]

I’m getting tired of this:

‘Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them: Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.’
Luke 13:23-24 Comment: many, that means a lot.

Be one of the small number who find the way to life, and enter by the narrow gate into Heaven. Take care not to follow the majority and the common herd, so many of whom are lost. Do not be deceived; there are only two roads: one that leads to life and is narrow; the other that leads to death and is wide. There is no middle way. St. Louis Marie de Montfort

How many souls turn away from the road to glory, and go to hell! St. Francis Xavier

There are many who arrive at the faith, but few who are led into the heavenly kingdom. Behold how many are gathered here for today’s Feast-Day: we fill the church from wall to wall. Yet who knows how few they are who shall be numbered in that chosen company of the Elect? Pope St. Gregory the Great

The greater number of men still say to God: Lord we will not serve Thee; we would rather be slaves of the devil, and condemned to Hell, than be Thy servants. Alas! The greatest number, my Jesus - we may say nearly all - not only do not love Thee, but offend Thee and despise Thee. How many countries there are in which there are scarcely any Catholics, and all the rest either infidels or heretics! And all of them are certainly on the way to being lost. St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori

The Lord called the world a “field” and all the faithful who draw near to him “wheat.” All through the field, and around the threshing-floor, there is both wheat and chaff. But the greater part is chaff; the lesser part is wheat, for which is prepared a barn not a fire. …] The good also are many, but in comparison with the wicked the good are few. Many are the grains of wheat, but compared with the chaff, the grains are few. St. Augustine

What do you think? How many of the inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to tell you is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with its thousands of inhabitants not one hundred people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that! St. John Chrysostom

Taking into account the behaviour of mankind, only a small part of the human race will be saved. Lucy of Fatima

So many people are going to die, and almost all of them are going to Hell! So many people falling into hell! Jacinta of Fatima

The greater number of the damned is incalculable. St. Veronica Giuliani

What is the number of those who love Thee, O God? How few they are! The Elect are much fewer than the damned! Alas! The greater portion of mankind lives in sin unto the devil, and not unto Jesus Christ. O Saviour of the world, I thank Thee for having called and permitted us to live in the true faith which the Holy Roman Catholic Church teaches. …] But alas, O my Jesus! How small is the number of those who live in this holy faith! Oh, God! The greater number of men lie buried in the darkness of infidelity and heresy. Thou hast humbled Thyself to death, to the death of the cross, for the salvation of men, and these ungrateful men are unwilling even to know Thee. Ah, I pray Thee, O omnipotent God, O sovereign and infinite Good, make all men know and love Thee! St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori

I see around me a multitude of those who, blindly persevering in error, despise the true God; but I am a Christian nevertheless, and I follow the instruction of the Apostles. If this deserves chastisement, reward it; for I am determined to suffer every torture rather then become the slave of the devil. Others may do as they please since they are …] reckless of the future life which is to be obtained only by sufferings. Scripture tells us that “narrow is the way that leads to life” …] because it is one of affliction and of persecutions suffered for the sake of justice; but it is wide enough for those who walk upon it, because their faith and the hope of an eternal reward make it so for them. …] On the contrary, the road of vice is in reality narrow, and it leads to an eternal precipice. St. Leo of Patara

If the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly man and the sinner appear? I St. Peter 1:18

Get out of the filth of the horrible torrent of this world, the torrent of thorns that is whirling you into the abyss of eternal perdition. …] This torrent is the world, which resembles an impetuous torrent, full of garbage and evil odours, making a lot of noise but flowing swiftly passed, dragging the majority of men into the pit of perdition. St. John Eudes

The Ark, which in the midst of the Flood was a symbol of the Church, was wide below and narrow above; and, at the summit, measured only a single cubit. …] It was wide where the animals were, narrow where men lived: for the Holy Church is indeed wide in the number of those who are carnal-minded, narrow in the number of those who are spiritual. Pope St. Gregory the Great

How can you resist the teaching?

 

[Sirach2]

That’s simply not true, God’s church are his chosen people. We had a new covenant, we are the new Israel.

Your private ‘gospel’ again is just your errant opinion. Read Romans 11.
All Israel Will Be Saved

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this isf] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[theoda]

I didn’t say that. My inference of being influenced by the enemy of souls was meant for those who continually carp on this. Nobody who practices their faith by fear and trembling is really experiencing the joy and peace of the Holy Spirit … it is quite obvious that you are not, either, since you are obsessed with this matter to the point of using illogical and repetitive posts.

We’ve been through this merry-go-round before, and I have no intention of continuing discussion with you. Let’s just say my post was meant more or less for other readers, with an outside chance that it might influence your deaf ears.

I don’t practice my faith in fear and trembling, I practice it with hope.

I take my teachings from the saints, and I would actually like someone to show me a saint who thinks differently. I cousk be wrong, but I haven’t seen any saint who has spoken against few are saved.

Does anyone know of a saint or who thinks many are saved? If so, please post it.

 

[theoda]

Your private ‘gospel’ again is just your errant opinion. Read Romans 11.
All Israel Will Be Saved

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this waye] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this isf] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”g]

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may nowh] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Again, I think they are talking about the new Israel, us, the church.

I’m to sure about this aspect as I haven’t spent much time studying it so I could be wrong.

However, it is off topic

 

[Sirach2]

I don’t practice my faith in fear and trembling, I practice it with hope.

I take my teachings from the saints, and I would actually like someone to show me a saint who thinks differently. I cousk be wrong, but I haven’t seen any saint who has spoken against few are saved.

Does anyone know of a saint or who thinks many are saved? If so, please post it.

Again, this is no proof, even if one supplied many saints, since you will reject them in favor of YOUR saints. The Church does not teach this, so I presume you have taken the task upon yourself, overriding Her authority for the insistence of your own gospel.

True saints do not pin salvation on numbers. As I said, you can only provide a smidgeon compared to the incredible volume of saints who have been canonized, none of whom indulged in this bizarre reflection, nor taught it.

 

[Sirach2]

I’m getting tired of this:

How can you resist the teaching?

Wow!!! As fast as you submitted this very lengthy post tells me it is in your files, easily copied and pasted, and proof of your obsession with this topic.

You’re darned right folks will resist it, since the Church is not teaching it. You are!

I believe folks are just as tired of reading your gospel as you are of trying to beat that dead horse!

Enough!!!

 

[theoda]

Again, this is no proof, even if one supplied many saints, since you will reject them in favor of YOUR saints. The Church does not teach this, so I presume you have taken the task upon yourself, overriding Her authority for the insistence of your own gospel.

True saints do not pin salvation on numbers. As I said, you can only provide a smidgeon compared to the incredible volume of saints who have been canonized, none of whom indulged in this bizarre reflection, nor taught it.

I haven’t seen any church teaching on the matter. If there is, can you please show it to me. I though that if there was no chirch teaching, we can believe what we want.

Again, you speak of my saints. Can you please list an example of a saint that teaches the majority are saved(

Again, all of the saints who have spoken about the matter have said few are saved. There are tons of Saints who have never spoken about it but may have has their private opinion.

I guess St Thomas Aquinas isn’t a true saint.

The children at Fatima have said few are saved. These are the people who spoke with Mary and had her perform the miracle of the sun.

 

[Sirach2]

Keep a-beating that horse, Theoda. Who’s listening?

 

[theoda]

Wow!!! As fast as you submitted this very lengthy post tells me it is in your files, easily copied and pasted, and proof of your obsession with this topic.

You’re darned right folks will resist it, since the Church is not teaching it. You are!

I believe folks are just as tired of reading your gospel as you are of trying to beat that dead horse!

Enough!!!

The saints are teaching it! They’re the ones who came up with the words.

The church doesn’t have an official teaching on the matter. Do you agree? If you don’t please tell me if there is an infallible church teaching so I may believe it.

I used to believe many are saved, then when I read the teachings of the saints I changed my opinion.

Do you question the validity of the quotes? If so, that would explain a lot,

 

[theoda]

Keep a-beating that horse, Theoda. Who’s listening?

Ok seriously just try to think on why I believe this. I have read the opinions of high respected saints and believed them. What is wrong with that!

Again, I am confused. Please tell me two things:

1. Is there a church teaching on the matter saying few or many are saved?
2. Did these highly respected saints say this or are the quotes false?