Fiance and I not seeing eye to eye about children... need some advice

[Nessie86]

When I first met my fiance, he did not agree on the Church’s teaching about contraception. He is now open to NFP. I had not pursued the topic too much beyond that before we were engaged, because, well, we were only dating, I didn’t want to go making a bunch of plans, assuming we would be together forever. Now that we’re engaged, I’ve been thinking about it a lot more. I’ve been learning more about NFP and just started charting, and last night I was talking my my fiance about someof the things I read. I read that you can use NFP for the wrong reasons. For instance, that “getting to know each other” is not a sufficient enough reason to postpone pregnancy more than a few months after marriage. There needs to be a really good reason for putting off a pregnancy. Also, that it’s not ok to limit the size of your family in order to maintain a particularly comfortable life style. I agree with this, and I really want to be a mom, I always have. But my fiance differs. He wants kids, but he wants to wait at least two years. He also doesn’t want more than three, maybe four kids, period. Sometimes he says that he’s “not ready”, and even more often, “we won’t be able to afford it”. He’s completely closed off. He has never lived on his own, he has been living with his parents and saving his money. He’s buying a house now, which is really exciting. So there is a chance we won’t be able to afford kids for a while. He’s a teacher, and I’m currently unemployed, though I do of course plan on contributing financially. But the thing is, as I’ve tried to tell him, he doesn’t actually know if we won’t be able to afford it. He’s never had a mortgage, he doesn’t have to budget right now, so he doesn’t know how tight it’s going to be each month. He also doesn’t know what kind of money I will be making. But he’s still basically saying that kids aren’t going to happen for a while. And then he says we can only have a certain number, because he doesnt want to be poor, and he wants to send his kids to college. I told him there are so many scholarships out there that things will work out. I don’t know, I feel like he’s just so fixated on money. I told him that it’s ok if he can’t accept these ideas right now, but that I would like him to open his heart to God and trust him, and allow God to change his heart. I don’t know if he is open to that. Granted, my dear fiance takes a long time to change how he feels about things, it can take a long time for him to warm up to an idea, so all hope may not be lost. I told him, though, that if his thinking does not change, I may not be able to go through with marrying him, explaining that I can’t enter into a marriage that I know will be contrary to church teachings and God’s will. He’s upset with me because he feels I have put an ultimatum on him. I told him that I don’t want to have to, but that God comes first.

Let me just end this by saying, I adore my fiance. This is the only concern I have about our future. I do not feel that God is telling me to break it off at this point. But I need some advice. I don’t know what to do. He’s getting upset and defensive, I’m almost certain out of fear, and I don’t know how to handle it. If anyone can give me some ideas, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[CapIV]

Respectfully, you shouldn’t ever try to hold back your feelings about moral issues like this. You are doing the right thing by pressing him on this. Many couples just avoid and suppress their feelings on moral issues and those are the couples that have problems later on.

Just continue to try to explain to him why contraception and hedonism are immoral. Use the Catholic Answers Library if you need help.

Money is never a good reason to postpone morality. Most people today (I’m not sure if this is you and I don’t mean to imply that it is) seem to think that all kids needs loads of toys and ipods and computers and that you need to go out to dinner a lot. Growing up, I knew plenty of Irish families that had 9, 10, 11+ kids with the mother as a homemaker and the father never had a career only jobs. They turned out fine because they relied on each other and lived as a family instead of placing financial security as their top priority.

I think that you are doing the right thing (however hard it may be) by being open to the idea that if your fiance cannot come to see the proper function of marriage, that your marriage may not be meant to be or might at least need to be postponed.

 

[jwashu]

Is your future husband Catholic? I asked because a lot of people in and outside of the Church struggle with this.

What I would say is for you guys to talk about it but the agreement should be to trust God. Not that He wants you to have 20 kids, you don’t know that There may be physical reasons that you don’t have children for 2 or more years, even trying. There may also be physical health reasons that you can’t have more than 4 kids.

In a Sacramental Marriage I believe you guys just must be willing to work together on this and trust God. He will show you how to proceed.

Don’t worry too much about the future before it gets here.

Yea Yea I know… this is a big one. But if you can both trust in Christ it will work out. That is the most important thing rather than how many when etc…

Joe

 

[kage_ar]

Sit down with your Priest and talk about this. It is very good to work through this now. With the help of your Priest, you both may come to a resolution, or you may find out it is a deal-killer. Either way, now - NOT AFTER THE WEDDING - is the time to work on this.

 

[Nessie86]

Thanks for the encouragement, I was pretty sure I was doing the right thing by dealing with this now, but it’s nice to hear it from someone else. My fiance we upset that I was pushing him about it and that it just came from “out of the blue”.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can talk about this with him without making him feel the need to be defensive? I’m trying, but I just don’t know what else to do. I feel like he’s closing off more and more. He wants kids, just on his terms. I just want to help him trust God, but it seems like everything I say just makes him more upset, and I feel rotten.

 

[rick43235]

I’ll admit right up front that I am in complete disagreement with Chruch teaching regarding birth control and family planning. But…if you find it to be important, you absolutely must get this sorted out before getting married. If you dont, it will be a constant source of conflict for years to come.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can talk about this with him without making him feel the need to be defensive? I’m trying, but I just don’t know what else to do. I feel like he’s closing off more and more. He wants kids, just on his terms. I just want to help him trust God, but it seems like everything I say just makes him more upset, and I feel rotten.

Given that this is such a basic issue, it is unlikely that you are going to really change his mind - just as he is probaby not going to change yours. I suppose one of you might “give in” in order to save what is otherwise a great relationship. However, this issue will eventually come to the surface again, and when it does, it will be ugly.

Good luck with what is, unfortunately, a tough situation.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

So you are going to marry someone who has not lived on his own yet, and has no idea the real costs and how to balance life. Why is he still living with his parents? Most guys I know can’t wait to be on their own.

You have told us:

One of the biggest decisions you are to make as a couple is only going to be solved on HIS terms.

Money is more important to him than obeying God.

The first big dispute you have about something really important and major, and he shuts down and becomes defensive and angry and upset and closed off.

You don’t feel comfortable discussing a vital issue like this with your future husband.

When he is fearful about the unknown he gets upset and defensive.

He is so resistant to change that he takes a long time to warm up to new ideas.

He doesn’t trust God.

He plans to tell YOU when YOU can have children.

And you adore this guy and think this is your only problem waiting for you in the future?

He may have possibilities as a husband. Someday. When he grows up. But he’s not ready to be married.

Unless you want to rush into this and then someday be crying as you fill out an annulment petition, writing all this stuff down and how your husband wasn’t really open to children in the marriage and you had no idea he really meant it, and he didn’t trust NFP either, and so you felt forced to use contraception. (Or he accused you of “tricking” him into a baby.)

Here’s my advice: If he doesn’t feel ready to have a baby for two years, then fine. Let him get on his feet financially. But not as your husband. Date him two more years and see if other parts of his personality emerge that validate a decision not to marry him. Or he grows up and sees the light, manages life on his own funding it with his own paycheck and is ready to be a husband and father.

Then you aren’t in a position of sinning. And you don’t have an eternal commitment to him if he fails to adjust.

He’s not ready to marry.

You two are not on the same page spiritually. You can’t drag his faith up to your level. But he can drag you down. Until his relationship with God matures, his relationship with you will have nothing but problems.

Been there, done that. You are choosing this man to teach your children about God? (The ones he lets you have.)

This man will teach your children values about what is important in life? (Hey, kid, sorry about no brothers and sisters, but we’ll send you to State U. when you grow up. That’s your consolation prize. College on mom and dad!)

If something happened to you, would you feel free having his attitudes be the ones educating your future children?

Think real hard. Proceed with extreme caution. Talk to a priest.

 

[zaramarie81]

When I first met my fiance, he did not agree on the Church’s teaching about contraception. He is now open to NFP. I had not pursued the topic too much beyond that before we were engaged, because, well, we were only dating, I didn’t want to go making a bunch of plans, assuming we would be together forever. Now that we’re engaged, I’ve been thinking about it a lot more. I’ve been learning more about NFP and just started charting, and last night I was talking my my fiance about someof the things I read. I read that you can use NFP for the wrong reasons. For instance, that “getting to know each other” is not a sufficient enough reason to postpone pregnancy more than a few months after marriage. There needs to be a really good reason for putting off a pregnancy. Also, that it’s not ok to limit the size of your family in order to maintain a particularly comfortable life style. I agree with this, and I really want to be a mom, I always have. But my fiance differs. He wants kids, but he wants to wait at least two years. He also doesn’t want more than three, maybe four kids, period. Sometimes he says that he’s “not ready”, and even more often, “we won’t be able to afford it”. He’s completely closed off. He has never lived on his own, he has been living with his parents and saving his money. He’s buying a house now, which is really exciting. So there is a chance we won’t be able to afford kids for a while. He’s a teacher, and I’m currently unemployed, though I do of course plan on contributing financially. But the thing is, as I’ve tried to tell him, he doesn’t actually know if we won’t be able to afford it. He’s never had a mortgage, he doesn’t have to budget right now, so he doesn’t know how tight it’s going to be each month. He also doesn’t know what kind of money I will be making. But he’s still basically saying that kids aren’t going to happen for a while. And then he says we can only have a certain number, because he doesnt want to be poor, and he wants to send his kids to college. I told him there are so many scholarships out there that things will work out. I don’t know, I feel like he’s just so fixated on money. I told him that it’s ok if he can’t accept these ideas right now, but that I would like him to open his heart to God and trust him, and allow God to change his heart. I don’t know if he is open to that. Granted, my dear fiance takes a long time to change how he feels about things, it can take a long time for him to warm up to an idea, so all hope may not be lost. I told him, though, that if his thinking does not change, I may not be able to go through with marrying him, explaining that I can’t enter into a marriage that I know will be contrary to church teachings and God’s will. He’s upset with me because he feels I have put an ultimatum on him. I told him that I don’t want to have to, but that God comes first.

Let me just end this by saying, I adore my fiance. This is the only concern I have about our future. I do not feel that God is telling me to break it off at this point. But I need some advice. I don’t know what to do. He’s getting upset and defensive, I’m almost certain out of fear, and I don’t know how to handle it. If anyone can give me some ideas, I would greatly appreciate it.

Nessie -

Maybe I can offer a little hope here? You may just have some personality differences here. For starters, it’s very common for the man in the relationship to stress - big time - about money. It may not be that he’s materialistic, but feeling the stress of knowing as the man he will probably be the primary breadwinner. You say he’s never lived on his own… this means that getting married and buying a house are big steps for him, and it can take some time to adjust. You’re right - he doesn’t know what your budget will look like exactly! While you see that as an opportunity for faith, he is stressing about the unknowns. My boyfriend does this and almost all my newly married friends’ husbands do this! I tend to make things worse by getting hyped up and telling him he needs to have more faith. (Rarely goes over well, and several times he’s ended up being wiser than me on an issue!).

Also, it’s my understanding finances *can *be a reason to hold off on conceiving the next child if the situation is truly tight (not just a matter of, as another poster said, buying ipods). It’s up to each couple to prayerfully discern. The good news is that when you use NFP, you are still honoring God’s design for the marital act - it’s not the same as contraception.

In regards to number of children… it seems he’s not saying he doesn’t want children (whew). He’s just not sure if he can imagine more than 4. Assuming he has no children right now, it can be very hard to imagine even having one child when you are single and childless, much less five, six, or seven. Even my friends who are totally open to life and having kids are taking it one child at a time. Some have unexpected health problems, others are finding they want more children than they expected etc. It’s also common even among Catholics to have an idea in their heads of about how many kids they may want - there’s nothing wrong with discussing a number, so long as you agree to be open to life throughout your marriage. And being open to life doesn’t mean you are actively trying to have a child at all times… it is simply accepting God’s will if a child is conceived.

Anyway, I guess all I’m saying is… and you know your fiance best … he really may just need time and loving communication. Marriage is a journey, and both of you will grow and change even in the first year. I’d talk to a marriage mentor or premarital counselor to help sort out any disagreements you’re having regarding this subject.

 

[Nessie86]

So you are going to marry someone who has not lived on his own yet, and has no idea the real costs and how to balance life. Why is he still living with his parents? Most guys I know can’t wait to be on their own.

Oh, he certainly can’t wait. He is paying rent to his parents, not bumming off of them. He lives in their basement, with his own bedroom and bathroom that is somewhat separate from the rest of the house. His father is an accountant, and together they made the decision that he would continue to live at home and pay them rent, as opposed to paying five times as much rent for an apartment (we’re in CA, it’s CRAZY expensive to rent an apartment, which is why I am also still living at home, as are so many other people our age) and seeing all that money go down the drain. He has been saving for years. He pays all his own bills. He has excellent credit. He has enough money for a downpayment on a house, which is quite an accomplishment for a young man. He is moving in in two weeks, and will have a year on his own before we get married. He is a high school band teacher, so he has a very respectable job, but his fear over money stems from the fact that the school district could cut the music program, and he’d be out of a job. We just don’t know what will happen.

You have told us:

One of the biggest decisions you are to make as a couple is only going to be solved on HIS terms.

No, its not. He’s not that domineering. Just scared.

Money is more important to him than obeying God.

Again, no. But it’s certainly something he worries about too much.

The first big dispute you have about something really important and major, and he shuts down and becomes defensive and angry and upset and closed off.

**Scared. Fear is a powerful thing. **

You don’t feel comfortable discussing a vital issue like this with your future husband.

I feel comfortable talking about it. It just wasn’t something we discussed in depth as a dating couple, though perhaps we should have. It didn’t seem appropriate.

When he is fearful about the unknown he gets upset and defensive.

Well, I do too. Again, fear is a powerful thing. I think he can overcome it, as I have in my life, but I wish I knew how to help him.

He is so resistant to change that he takes a long time to warm up to new ideas.

A personality trait common to many people, and one that I am well aware of. I have my issues too. I have seen him overcome it before.

He doesn’t trust God.

He doesn’t have a family that raised him that way. He’s learning. It’s a process for all of us.

He plans to tell YOU when YOU can have children.

He wants to make the decision together, he wants to make sure we’re ready, particularly financially. He’s fixating right now because it’s overwhelming. He’s been signing all these papers to buy a house, and he feels like he’s signing his life away with the mortgage, so it’s scary right now. That, and the bad economy threatening music in schools, meaning he’s not guaranteed to have the same, or any, paycheck next year.

And you adore this guy and think this is your only problem waiting for you in the future?

**Yes, I adore him. And no, I’m not naiive enough to think this will be our only problem. Marriage is hard work. There’s a lot to look at, for sure. Which is why we are going through all the marriage prep. We have the first round of it this weekend, and will meet with our priest shortly after. I will not turn a blind eye. But I believe, as far as a person having problems with church teachings, that God can work on him and change his heart. I should know. I’m a convert. I was Lutheran not too terribly long ago, and firmly against the Catholic church. And look at how God has changed me! This gives me faith. I will not, however, marry him unless I see this change happen. I am not that stupid. God first. **

You make some fair points, for sure. But I do not yet think all hope is lost. The vendors are not booked, the date is not yet set, we still have time.

My fiance is still learning a lot about his faith. I have an advantage over him as a convert, because I am going through RCIA. He never had the opportunites for learning that I did. But he’s really been enjoying learning with me. This one particular thing is just in direct conflict to how he was raised. It’s going to take some working through.

Again, I could really use some advice on how to TALK to him, particularly if someone has been in a similar situation. I appreciate the advice and warnings, consider them heeded. Don’t think it has not crossed my mind that I may have to break this off. But I’m not giving up yet.

 

[zaramarie81]

"Does anyone have any ideas on how I can talk about this with him without making him feel the need to be defensive? I’m trying, but I just don’t know what else to do. I feel like he’s closing off more and more. He wants kids, just on his terms. I just want to help him trust God, but it seems like everything I say just makes him more upset, and I feel rotten.

One more thought - and someone else asked it too. Is he Catholic? That factor will greatly shape how you go about discussing this. Regardless, we all have areas in our lives where we struggle to surrender them fully to God. Hmm, yes, a premarital mentor or counselor could really be of help in facilitating discussion on this.

 

[Nessie86]

Nessie -

Maybe I can offer a little hope here? You may just have some personality differences here. For starters, it’s very common for the man in the relationship to stress - big time - about money. It may not be that he’s materialistic, but feeling the stress of knowing as the man he will probably be the primary breadwinner. You say he’s never lived on his own… this means that getting married and buying a house are big steps for him, and it can take some time to adjust. You’re right - he doesn’t know what your budget will look like exactly! While you see that as an opportunity for faith, he is stressing about the unknowns. My boyfriend does this and almost all my newly married friends’ husbands do this! I tend to make things worse by getting hyped up and telling him he needs to have more faith. (Rarely goes over well, and several times he’s ended up being wiser than me on an issue!).

Also, it’s my understanding finances *can *be a reason to hold off on conceiving the next child if the situation is truly tight (not just a matter of, as another poster said, buying ipods). It’s up to each couple to prayerfully discern. The good news is that when you use NFP, you are still honoring God’s design for the marital act - it’s not the same as contraception.

In regards to number of children… it seems he’s not saying he doesn’t want children (whew). He’s just not sure if he can imagine more than 4. Assuming he has no children right now, it can be very hard to imagine even having one child when you are single and childless, much less five, six, or seven. Even my friends who are totally open to life and having kids are taking it one child at a time. Some have unexpected health problems, others are finding they want more children than they expected etc. It’s also common even among Catholics to have an idea in their heads of about how many kids they may want - there’s nothing wrong with discussing a number, so long as you agree to be open to life throughout your marriage. And being open to life doesn’t mean you are actively trying to have a child at all times… it is simply accepting God’s will if a child is conceived.

Anyway, I guess all I’m saying is… and you know your fiance best … he really may just need time and loving communication. Marriage is a journey, and both of you will grow and change even in the first year. I’d talk to a marriage mentor or premarital counselor to help sort out any disagreements you’re having regarding this subject.

Yes, thank you! You understand me! I guess I’ll just have to keep trying to talk, and pray that God works on him. Thanks for your post, that helped, a lot, hearing that other people deal with this too.

 

[Nessie86]

One more thought - and someone else asked it too. Is he Catholic? That factor will greatly shape how you go about discussing this. Regardless, we all have areas in our lives where we struggle to surrender them fully to God. Hmm, yes, a premarital mentor or counselor could really be of help in facilitating discussion on this.

Yes, he was raised Catholic, but like many Catholics, didn’t learn all of the Church’s teachings perfectly. His mother is, unfortunately, very liberal, something he hates. His father is conservative an has passed on everything he could. I believe this really is a matter of surrendering, which is of course difficult for everyone. He loves being Catholic, he loves that I’m converting (almost there! Easter!), and he wants to raise our kids Catholic. It’s just that some of these teachings on contraception and openness to life, he never learned, and it is a radical shift for many people who are learning it.

Yes, I am hoping it comes out when we go through our first round of marriage prep, and that we talk with our priest about it. I think it would help. Knowing my fiance, he will lower his guard eventually.

 

[zaramarie81]

**He loves being Catholic, he loves that I’m converting (almost there! Easter!), and he wants to raise our kids Catholic. **It’s just that some of these teachings on contraception and openness to life, he never learned, and it is a radical shift for many people who are learning it.

Oh! Well, these are great qualities for entering into a Catholic marriage! (As I’m sure you know ). And congrats on coming into the Church. Yeah, the contraception/open to life issue can be very tough to absorb and embrace at first, so I pray your marriage prep helps. But if he loves his faith… I’d think over time this would resolve itself with enough loving communication, prayer and study.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

You sound like you have a really good head on your shoulders, and he sounds, with what you’ve described, as a very careful person. I can understand how finally being exposed to REAL Church teachings on morality can be eye opening. (Where ARE the priests with the truth during early formation???)

You two sound like you’d be good candidates for “journalling” methods of communication. They use it in Marriage Encounters and Retrouvaille. It consists of exchanging written letters where you write to each other your feelings about subjects and how they make you feel and what you need from the other. Exchange letters. Read. Reply.

Kind of keeps the heat down when you have to think and write rather than spout off. A mentoring couple would help you.

Also look into the Couple To Couple League. They put out a really good newsletter each month on the whole NFP deal.

Just proceed with caution. I hate to see people heading in the right direction get their hearts broken.

 

[sheilathebard]

I have no idea whether you should break up with him over this or not. Like you said, nothing’s booked yet, so you don’t have to make this decision now – you can just keep learning and studying together – though I would agree with you, that you should not get married until this is worked out.

My thought is that he is probably scared because he has never seen real openness to children really carried out. Are there any families you know that do practice it? Especially large families, living on a single income? Maybe you two could have dinner with a family like that, let them tell your fiance their story. That way it’s not coming from you, who (as a convert, and as someone who has never raised a family this way either) don’t have quite as strong a voice. Let him see the joy and closeness these families have – this is the strongest argument I have ever seen.

 

[Nessie86]

Good news! My fiance and I were able to talk some things out last night, and he did relent some. Not completely, but significantly. I saw him open up quite a bit last night. After we both calmed down a bit, I realized we agree on more than I thought. There’s still a lot to be talked about, and a lot to work through, but I am hopeful. I really liked the suggestion that we meet with a family that is making this all work. I actually have one in mind at our church, they’ve already offered to have us over for dinner. I think that once my fiance has moved into the new house and gets a better feel for things, it will be easier to talk, there won’t be so much speculation. Thank you everyone for the advice and support–I didn’t really have anyone else to talk to. I made the mistake of confiding in my mom, who is protestant and contracepted religiously, and all I got from her was a lecture about how I have to wait at least a year to have kids, I’m not ready, and I basically have no idea what I’m talking about… ugh… thanks mom…

 

[zaramarie81]

Good news! My fiance and I were able to talk some things out last night, and he did relent some. Not completely, but significantly. I saw him open up quite a bit last night. After we both calmed down a bit, I realized we agree on more than I thought. There’s still a lot to be talked about, and a lot to work through, but I am hopeful. I really liked the suggestion that we meet with a family that is making this all work. I actually have one in mind at our church, they’ve already offered to have us over for dinner. I think that once my fiance has moved into the new house and gets a better feel for things, it will be easier to talk, there won’t be so much speculation. Thank you everyone for the advice and support–I didn’t really have anyone else to talk to. I made the mistake of confiding in my mom, who is protestant and contracepted religiously, and all I got from her was a lecture about how I have to wait at least a year to have kids, I’m not ready, and I basically have no idea what I’m talking about… ugh… thanks mom…

Yeah, it’s not easy in a culture where contraception is not only the norm, but seen as the only responsible way to go! But glad to hear you two able to make some progress talking this out! And making connections with other faithful, Catholic families in the community sounds like a great idea! Also, have you ever read Kim Hahn’s “Life Giving Love”? She has several chapters on the blessings of large families, and it really helped ease my own mind on the “what ifs” of having more than 4 kids (4 seems to be the magic number, haha). Of course, there are plenty of very faithful Catholic couples who never actively pursue a “large” family (or who can’t), but it sure helps to see examples of thriving families who have been gifted with many children.

 

[Salonika]

Nessie, I am sorry that you that you and your fiancé’s wedding plans are being disrupted by you and your finance not seeing eye to eye about children - when to have them. However, this issue was due to come up at some stage and you would have had to deal with it. It’s better to deal with it now than later. Some people would say that it mightn’t have arisen as he might have changed his mind (or you might have) but they are all mights. So yes, you do need to work on resolving issue

Also each of you needs to be clear about what is basic and non-negotiable and what is negotiable. Close relationships, including but not limited to marriage, can still thrive if there are differences in what is negotiable but I believe that not many of those where there are non-negotiable issues thrive.

Sometimes looking at the “why” or reasons for beliefs can help as there may be similar basis to beliefs. Then there is something to work on. I had an example in a close friend whose politics were the exact opposite of mine. Amazingly they came from the same value base.

Another reason why you and fiancé need to sort this out is that given your beliefs NFP is the only type of family spacing you can use. This requires you both to be fully committed to it.

Think we have to accept that people have different attitudes to having (or not having) children and different reasons for wanting to have them and not wanting to have them.

At times I feel that those who do not want children are always placed on the back foot – we have to “justify” our attitude, deal with the assumption we are “selfish” or not “willing to share” while those who want them do not have to do the same. Maybe check if your finance feels this way about having the justify his position.

Sometimes too we need to think of the possible children – would it be better be born into a home where the parents have got to know each well and got through the adjustments that marriage involves or into a situation where the parents are still going through the adjustment.

Think I will stop this post here. It’s getting a bit long. Will go through the other posts and perhaps comment.

 

[Salonika]

Nessie86:

I told him, though, that if his thinking does not change, I may not be able to go through with marrying him, explaining that I can’t enter into a marriage that I know will be contrary to church teachings and God’s will. He’s upset with me because he feels I have put an ultimatum on him. I told him that I don’t want to have to, but that God comes first.

And yes it is an ultimatum to him – to you it is a bottom line. If he was laying done one of his bottom lines then you would feel you were being offered an ultimatum.

rick43235:

Given that this is such a basic issue, it is unlikely that you are going to really change his mind - just as he is probably not going to change yours. I suppose one of you might “give in” in order to save what is otherwise a great relationship. However, this issue will eventually come to the surface again, and when it does, it will be ugly.

I agree and the one who “gives in” is going to feel as if they have violated one of their basic principles and this isn’t good for any close relationship and not good for any children involved. Even if this isn’t talked about the children will pick up an undercurrent.

Nessie86:

Thank you everyone for the advice and support–I didn’t really have anyone else to talk to. I made the mistake of confiding in my mom, who is protestant and contracepted religiously, and all I got from her was a lecture about how I have to wait at least a year to have kids, I’m not ready, and I basically have no idea what I’m talking about…

Yes, we have to take where people are coming from/their views when we evaluate their advice. Our posts contain advice suggestions and also tell a lot about us. Maybe that’s a good thing as it helps people realise all advice needs to be evaluated.

zaramarie81:

And making connections with other faithful, Catholic families in the community sounds like a great idea! Also, have you ever read Kim Hahn’s “Life Giving Love”? She has several chapters on the blessings of large families, and it really helped ease my own mind on the “what ifs” of having more than 4 kids

This is a good idea as long it as a “fact finding and experiencing ” exercise not a “this will change you mind”.

Nessie – does your fiancé have siblings? (sorry if I’ve missed this detail.) Some people say we only children are easy to spot. Some of us have trouble with conflict – either avoid it or tackle it head on (or do one time and another at another time (confusing for people. Also there can be a rough and tumble of debate and discussion that we didn’t learn at home (some learn it elsewhere) and if we were brought up in a home where there was conflict it can be very scary. Always involved in the conflict (even if a bystander) and no siblings to go to for comfort or get another opinion. Also we often have to learn how to share or to share nore spontaneously.

Also pleased to see from the later posts that communications between you and your fiance are opening up.

 

[blue_skies_1]

I have to say this sounds so much like my ex boyfriend - being closed off and too fixated on the money side of things… wanting to do everything ‘by the book’, i.e. how the rest of the world deems to be ‘sensible’. It’s a shame when people are so brainwashed, in a way, by that mentality, that they can’t see a more beautiful way to live.
But you can’t force your fiance to want something that he doesn’t really want… it has to come from inside of him. I don’t know how good the chances are ‘uprooting’ those attitudes because they are generally basic assumptions and they’re hard to change. It may well be possible - keep praying and trying to approach the whole issue in the most ‘non-scary’, positive way as that’s more likely to get a result… but if he wants one type of life and you want another… if your priorities are different, then my view is you should accept that you can’t change a man and hold out for the one who holds the same beliefs and has the same ‘dream’. i’m not suggesting giving up on your relationship, but if you do ultimately want different things, it could really be a problem. It is good though that he’s become open to what you’ve said about NFP… it shows a good attitude and love and commitment for you, so that’s a good sign…
One thing you could do is sit down and really discuss the ‘nitty gritty’ of how you will afford things and what kind of lifestyle and budget you have in mind; it may help to make things clearer and more realistic for both of you - in his case, it may reassure him that it’s doable. You’ll also find out about each other’s lifestyle expectations and priorities. It’s important to try to get into paid employment too as soon as you’re able to… otherwise the message he may be receiving is that he is just going to be responsible for supporting you and your many children !!.. If you get a job he’ll be reassured that you are willing to make a contribution and not simply expecting to be ‘taken care of’. It shows an adult approach and that will be helpful…

I hope things work out for you but if ultimately you realise that they’re not, don’t be afraid to walk away… That’s my advice.