Fiance is Agnostic/Atheist

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Paddy1989

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I’m an Irish Catholic man who moved to New Zealand five years ago. I wasn’t always a practicing Catholic when I arrived here, I spent a bit of time dabbling in the binge party culture and while I have gained many great friends here who are genuinely nice people with good values most do not share my worldview, even my other Irish friends though that is something I have come to accept. Anyway I met my current fiance when i wasn’t a fully practicing Catholic and I later came back to my Faith. I explained to her my desire to live as a follower of Christ and his Church which she was very accepting of, I explained to her the why’s behind Christian teaching which she found very appealing to her soul. I thought educating her more on philosophy and Catholic teaching would perhaps lead her to questioning God the way I did and perhaps In coming to understand and one day embrace him. We are also abstaining from sex until marriage which again she supports me fully in and helps me. She also attends weekly mass with me.

The problem i have is that her agnosticism/atheism is by choice and I feel saddened that she doesn’t feel as much passion towards understanding God and his Church as I do. She finds it difficult to grasp how we can come to the conclusion that God exists from different philosophical arguments such as cause and effect. The only argument that convinces her there is a God is the moral one where she readily admits we live in a universe where objective morality exists and she understands that right and wrong is not merely subjective. That human beings have an intrinsic value and purpose and that something must be behind this. She admits that this thing is intelligent and outside of time, space and matter but that’s it, she says she doesn’t understand what it is and believes that the God we believe in of being fully divine and human is incomprehensible and fiction to her. She therefore says she doesn’t care for God and refuses to read the bible as she claims it’s boring. I find it hard for someone whom I love so much live as if God exists but rejects him due to lack of interest. Who lives indifferent to God, on the one hand accepting a reality that should shake her entire compression of reality by living as if God exists and then on the other simply says oh well, it’s too much for me to understand so I’ll live in ignorance of him.
 
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We have many debates and I wonder how others on this forum deal with these issues with their spouse. Does it create greater rifts that affect your relationship. Can greater good come from this such as her eventual conversion? I just feel sorrow for not having the person I love share in the thing that matters to me most, God. What is worse is the person I’m choosing to spend the rest of my life with rejects by ignorance the most important thing to me. The thing that shapes my entire worldview, it’s almost like the most important part of me is alien to her. She loves who I am but doesn’t comprehend that who I am is because of my Faith. It’s like she loves God’s nature and the way he intended it to be which is what morality is based upon but doesn’t attribute nature to be of God’s doing, she can’t connect the dots that’s right in front of her because she doesn’t want to. I think it’s because out of all my attempts to help her understand my Faith and God in the end she really just doesn’t care very much which has left me disheartened and now starting to accept that she may never come to God which saddens me
 
I’m sure that it’s definitely easier to be with believers but I find defending my faith actually consolidates my own. As long as someone close doesn’t constantly criticise and understands this aspect of you and you love each other despite this difference of opinion then things can work. If you need someone that agrees and will share church life etc then it surely will be a problem for you over time, on the other hand it can be a welcome break to enjoy separate activities as well.

In time you may persuade her through example but it doesn’t sound as though she’ll be convinced any other way. It may take years to achieve though.
I hope things work out for you.

(How will you live together according to the Church?)
 
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Thanks, it’s just to me it’s seem so irrational where on the one hand she endorses the existence of intelligent design yet on the other hand not being impacted by this reality because of her own ignorance. Like saying aw yea I believe we were created with a intrinsic value and purpose from an intelligence that loves us but that’s it, she doesn’t care for what this intelligence is and if it did create us try and understand the fullness of our nature and the way it is intended as best we can. I find I’m defending my Faith every other day mostly online with other people as most Christians will have to do In today’s society. I don’t know how I’ll feel in the future, I think I have just accepted that she many never come to God and i feel sorrow for her and kind of anger at her ignorance of it which I know I should be more charitable. She may think on the most basic level that he exists but that’s it, anything more doesn’t interest her and looks at God as being of no use to her. It’s so strange and confusing but I can’t seem to shake her away from it and no amount of C.S lewis or Bishop Barron anologies which are more articulate than mine seem to affect her understanding of things
 
It’s frustrating but frustration is born of ego, the most important relationship is between you and God and this requires humility as I’m sure you know. We can help others spiritually but ultimately God gives the grace of faith and though we can ensure that food and water is always available we can’t and shouldn’t force others to partake.
 
I agree and I fall victim to my own ego at times. I suppose I am just afraid it will cause a rift and honesty I wish I shared this with her, the most important part of who I am and my worldview is alien to her, I just wish we shared it together
 
it Is a matter of concern I agree. Prayer and love and pure intent is all I can suggest but as is so often said faith can move mountains. I’m sure God will show you the way.
Peace be with you.

(There are several books which can help make people question their unbelief but generally speaking unless someone can account for every reason for the existence of everything everywhere then they must admit that the existence of God is a distinct possibility.)
 
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Are you familiar with the work over at the Strange Notions blog?


Also John C Wright and “Max Kolbe”'s podcasts over at Red Pill Religion are well worth a listen.

https://www.redpillreligion.com/category/john-c-wright/

About marriage, you have to enter marriage expecting her to never change her beliefs. Can you live with that difference for decades, raise kids together without the kids completely rejecting religion? It is not an easy question to answer.
 
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From what I read in your post, it seems to me you are of the opinion that your fiance is not an intellectual equal to you. I read a lot about her “not understanding” and “not comprehending”. I would suggest you think about this differently. It really is possible for two intelligent people to take in the same information and come to two completly different and opposite conclusions.

Your post also implies, to me, that this topic is a dealbreaker for you. You aren’t going to let this issue rest. Don’t marry someone hoping they will change. It isn’t fair to you or her.
 
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Is it really so wrong to just want to enjoy ones life and the universe where one has found oneself without having a desire to go searching for ‘ultimate meanings’?

As you say, she thinks there is something behind it - the thing is, she doesn’t agree with your explanation and doesn’t really care to pursue the question.

Is that really so bad? Let her be.
 
If this is a deal breaker for you, you can’t proceed with the relationship expecting her to change. It wouldn’t be fair to either of you.

But if you are searching for someone who will be in the exact same place as you spiritually for the rest of your lives, it’s a fool’s errand. You can likely find someone who is closer to where you are at now but they are unlikely to be at the exact same place or grow at the same rate.
 
First of all, if you cannot accept your fiancee as she is, then don’t marry her. Marrying someone hoping they will change is a recipe for disaster.

Second, your fiancee is already being pretty supportive of you by abstaining from sex and going to the weekly Mass with you. Most agnostics/ atheists I know wouldn’t even do that much. You are pushing her to do more and more. You cannot just make someone have faith or make someone have the same “passion” towards understanding God and his Church that you do. My own husband was a great guy and a strong believer, but he was not as interested in praying or in religious topics as I am. I accepted that, just like I accepted he also wasn’t terribly excited by the music I liked or some of the hobbies I enjoyed, and he accepted that I didn’t share a number of his interests.

You have to either meet your fiancee where she is at or don’t marry her.
 
Thanks Guys, we both love each other very much and accept each other for whom we are. I think I just feel a bit disheartened that all my attempts to nudge her to even search for the answers herself hasn’t bore fruit but that is something I now accept, i just worry for her soul but will pray for her. Perhaps the best way I can teach her about Christianity and God is living by example. Her slavation is most important so even if she chooses not to come to God I’ll pray for her soul regardless
 
Lead by your example with pushing, and she may one day follow.
It may happen when you raise children, or it may happen years later. Or it may not ever happen. Only you can decide if you would be okay if she never converted. It does sound like she is very supportive of your faith. You don’t have to answer here, but have you discussed his you would raise your children?
 
She is an amazing woman for supporting my Faith. I’m in awe of her at times for her support as it can be asking too much of someone who doesn’t share the Faith. Also she is very supportive of when we have kids them being brought up Catholic as she really likes the Christian worldview and it’s teachings. I’m ok if she never converted but I just worry for her soul, this is what hurts aswell as not sharing the Faith but in every other way we are perfect for each other and I will pray for her salvation aswell as my own
 
Not sure if this was covered in another’s response, but “chooses not to believe” is not really the way it works. Yes, you could probably choose a variety of Christian denominations partially based on what you believe about God. In your case you believe to have found the one true church. But you can’t really choose to believe or not believe in God. You simply believe based on what you know and experience. Likewise, her experiences and knowledge have not lead her to the God you know. It seems like she believes in more of a “clock maker” who doesn’t interact with creation.

That said, you have a real question on your hands. Though it might be tough, are you able to be with someone who does not and possibly cannot believe? Are you able to look past this and realize the places you two agree even if based on completely different reasons? Sure, she will not have the same appreciation for certain things, but she’ll be happy for you and somewhat supportive at times because it makes you happy.
 
Would it help her faith if you educated her on miraculous things? Such as healings at Lourdes, Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, and so on?
 
HerCrazierHalf said:
“chooses not to believe” is not really the way it works
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Actually, belief is very much a choice. I weigh the possibilities, do research, and then I choose.

As Scripture says “Choose this day whom you will serve, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord”

Faith is a gift, belief is a choice.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Actually, belief is very much a choice. I weigh the possibilities, do research, and then I choose.
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It’s more of a conclusion. You can choose not to worship or join a church. Can you choose not to believe?
 
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