Fiance masturbates. What do I do?

[Pug]

Kendy:

If every woman refused to marry a man because he masterbates, very few people would get married.

I don’t think that has to be the case at all. If masturbation is so common and for most of those people is NOT a problem, then they can just quit. No biggie. Quit before marriage. Totally simple. Then marry the person. It shouldn’t be such a big request that your future partner stop before marriage. There ought to be plenty of people to chose from to marry.

On the other hand, what you seem to be implying is that most folks can’t stop, so that it is not feasible to ask your future spouse to stop before marriage because your future spouse won’t be able to. It can’t be both ways. Either masturbation is a problem that is often very difficult to stop or it isn’t.

I want Lady Jane to know the facts. Having the facts is important before marriage. She asked a question about it, and she deserves to know that if it matters to her, have him stop before marriage. Otherwise, she’s at risk for having to live with it for the rest of her life. Simple practicality speaking here.

Note: I may have misunderstood and you mean a man who has never masturbated is hard to find. I agree with this. That could pose an impediment to finding a spouse.

 

[setter]

They also know that behind the face of nearly every child-abuser is a self-abuser.

Kendy:

This sentence really stood out. It’s completely ridiculous, and out of touch with reality. Certainly, all-child abusers probably masterbate, but they probably also sleep, eat, and watch television. It’s hard to take seriously the link that this claim makes. As was pointed out, the majority of people, esp. men, have masterbated at some point in their lives. They are not at risk of becoming child abusers. And it’s hard for the world to take the church seriously when she says stuff like this.

I took this sentence by the article authors as simply pointing out that masturbation (self-abuse) is all of the same continuum of objectifying sex to an activity of self-pleasure seeking in an unhealthy manner.

I hate that I have now become a promoter of masterbation, which I am not. I just thought some of the hyperbole deserved a response. If every woman refused to marry a man because he masterbates, very few people would get married. It’s something most people struggle with (call it a mortal or venial sin), and if that’s makes them disturbed, then apparently more than half of Americans and even greater portion of men need psychological intervention

.
What they need first and foremost is conversion of the mind to see and accept the misuse of their human sexuality, then maybe psychological intervention if the undesired behavior persists.

 

[Kendy]

Pug:

I don’t think that has to be the case at all. If masturbation is so common and for most of those people is NOT a problem, then they can just quit. No biggie. Quit before marriage. Totally simple. Then marry the person. It shouldn’t be such a big request that your future partner stop before marriage. There ought to be plenty of people to chose from to marry.

On the other hand, what you seem to be implying is that most folks can’t stop, so that it is not feasible to ask your future spouse to stop before marriage because your future spouse won’t be able to. It can’t be both ways. Either masturbation is a problem that is often very difficult to stop or it isn’t.

I want Lady Jane to know the facts. Having the facts is important before marriage. She asked a question about it, and she deserves to know that if it matters to her, have him stop before marriage. Otherwise, she’s at risk for having to live with it for the rest of her life. Simple practicality speaking here.

Note: I may have misunderstood and you mean a man who has never masturbated is hard to find. I agree with this. That could pose an impediment to finding a spouse.

Yes, I absolutely do mean a man who has never masterbated is hard to find. I am also saying that it’s possible that he may do it up till the point they are marriaged and possibly after. I think if he is absolutely unable to stop this upon request, then there is a problem. I wasn’t saying that people can’t stop masterbating. I am saying it’s a tempting, hidden sin that most people struggle with. We don’t need to institutionalize them for it.

Kendy

 

[dulcissima]

Kendy:

Masterbating everyday may not translate into wanting sex everyday. People use masterbation to release sexual desires. However, since it actually is not a great substitute for sex, the desire might return sooner than if one had had sex. Whereas actually having sex with someone else can sate that desire for days. Having sex with his wife might completely elimiate the need for masterbation.

In fact, I discussed this post with a male friend yesterday to get a guy’s perspective. Masterbation is usually a bad substitute for the real thing and becomes unnecessary if you are having the real thing. Now, that may not be the case with her fiance, but it probably is.

Kendy

Kendy, I was not speaking hypothetically. From my own experience I have reason to believe your hypothesis “whereas actually having sex with someone else can sate that desire for days. Having sex with his wife might completely elimiate the need for masterbation” is incorrect.

The Church infallibly teaches that masturbation, self-abuse, is a mortal sin. Does it matter if the majority of young men engage in regular masturbation? The truth is not determined by a majority vote.

This young woman has become aware of something that could become a problem in her upcoming marriage. Should she just shrug her shoulders and think “Oh well, everyone does it”? Should she just put her blinders on and leap into marriage? Perhaps this attitude is why we see so many annulments.

1 Corinthians 11. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

It is time for this young man to put away his childish thoughts and behaviors. It is foolish to commit a grave sin out of fear of ridicule. It is foolish to jeopardize future marital intimacy by regularly and frequently abusing his own body. This needs to be addressed now, before they marry, for his own good as well as that of his intended wife.

 

[Palamite]

LadyJaneGrey,

On one hand, I agree with some of the posters here that you ought not regard your fiance to be some kind of extraordinarily perverted person. He’s not that odd in his vice, nor do I think you need to be contemplating that he needs to be sent to the funny farm or anything like this (ok, so I’m exaggerating…but you get my point).

However, for various reasons, this is a sin. That it is a common sin/vice (as indicated by statistics which canvas a cross section of society that includes people from different backgrounds, with most being secular persons or de facto secularists) only points to the brokeness of most people, and is not an argument in favour of the morality of this habit.

In a sense the culpability (subjective moral guilt) of your fiance in this matter is somewhat secondary, at least on a practical level. I say this, because regardless of how enslaved he is to this as a force of habit, it is still hurting him and will hurt your future marriage (especially if it persists, as it most likely will.) I say this not to “rain on your parade”, but because I know full well that marriage doesn’t make people change - rather it’s people changing which makes people change (sounds obvious, but it needs to be pointed out.) I think this is especially so given the way you describe the situation, since your marriage will not automatically do away with his problems with anxiety and extreme shyness (and whatever may underlay these at an even deeper level.)

Also, someone pointed out the possible problem of him constantly expecting sex from you when you are married. Some here may be surprised at me saying this, because on another thread I’ve posted quite forcefully on the obligation of spouses to render the “marriage debt” under most circumstances. But I bring this up, because while all of that (re. marriage debt) is true and must be observed, sexual compulsiveness is contrary to our spiritual growth. While one definately does not sin in making use of marriage so as to “get rid of their itch”, it is universally understood by the ancient Fathers of the Church (who are accepted both by we Orthodox and Roman Catholics) that one way spiritual progress is manifested is precisely in not being compulsive in any sense, let alone being dictated to by the appetites of the flesh. This is why in Orthodoxy, we put such an emphasis upon fasting - which in our understanding, includes abstaining from sexual relations. Fasting in all respects is a spiritual and moral “work out”, and helps “slay the old man” who suffers from compulsiveness and sensuality.

Thus, someone who remains sexually compulsive in marriage not only risks upsetting their spouse, but also is spiritually ill. While it’s obviously much better that they get relief through their spouse and not by compounding their problem by masturbating or otherwise going outside of their marriage, remaining that way is not good either. Our spiritual life is much like everything else in life - you’re either making some progress, or you’re degressing.

Like a couple of other posters on this thread, I’m also a little wary of the way your fiance is portraying this problem. I’m not saying he’s intentionally lying to you, but it’s possible he’s not being honest with himself. At the very least, he’s not seeing reality as it is. Speaking as a man, I can assure you that none of his dorm mates would know he had a “wet dream” unless he made a point of sharing this with them. There’s simply not that much evidence of what has happened.

This may sound very old school, but you might want to suggest that he take up the practice of fasting, above and beyond what Catholicism requires as a “bare minimum” (my understanding is that it’s not that much these days). He doesn’t need to over do it (nor should he be discouraged if it doesn’t “work” overnight) obviously, but perhaps start with (seemingly) small things. Foresaking that which is lawful to us (but not necessary for either our health or salvation) is a good way of strengthening our resolve. I would compare it to the advice a former sensei of mine gave me as a boy when I was taking taijutsu…

“I don’t have you train doing such high kicks because I think you’ll ever need to use such in a confrontation; rather, you are being trained in this way because it will make the lower kicks you would use in actual combat all the more powerful and accurately executed.”

IOW. if you can strengthen your will to foresake that which is not at all sinful, for the love of God, your willpower will be all the better equiped to avoid that which is dipleasing to God and contrary to salvation.

 

[Kendy]

dulcissima:

Kendy, I was not speaking hypothetically. From my own experience I have reason to believe your hypothesis “whereas actually having sex with someone else can sate that desire for days. Having sex with his wife might completely elimiate the need for masterbation” is incorrect.

Well, I am also speaking from experience, mine and other people’s. I am not saying that everyone who masterbates will stop if they are able to have sexual intercourse, but I think for most people masterbation is a poor substitute for sex. And there’s no need for it if you can have sex.

dulcissima:

The Church infallibly teaches that masturbation, self-abuse, is a mortal sin. Does it matter if the majority of young men engage in regular masturbation? The truth is not determined by a majority vote.

I am not saying masterbation is good. I am just saying that the man is psychological disturbed. He might benefit from regular confession and possibility an accountability buddy. But the temptation to masterbate might always be present as long as he is not sexually active.

Kendy

 

[Al_Masetti]

Some resources may be of use:

sa.org/

sanon.org/

dads.org/

trueknights.org/freedom.html

pornnomore.com/

 

[Black_Jaque]

Tell your fiance that if anyone questions him about his wet underwear he can simply explain the truth. “Any man here who isn’t getting wet dreams is masturbating.”

Pretty soon every guy on the wing will be pouring water on their underwear just to make it look like they’re not guilty of “M”.

 

[Kendy]

Black Jaque:

Tell your fiance that if anyone questions him about his wet underwear he can simply explain the truth. “Any man here who isn’t getting wet dreams is masturbating.”

Pretty soon every guy on the wing will be pouring water on their underwear just to make it look like they’re not guilty of “M”.

Where do you people live!!! Yeah, that’s exactly how that conversation is going down. .

But seriously, I thought wet dreams were supposed to stop a few years after puberty? It’s possible that that is a problem.

 

[Genesis315]

Masturbation will cast your immortal soul into the pit of Hell for eternal torments while wet dreams will not. Sounds like an easy choice to me .

If he’s embarrased about them, remember, the judgment of other people means absolutely nothing and the judgment of God means everything.

(ps: when a sin is a grave matter, like masturbation, assume the mitigating circumstances do not apply. God is the only judge of that. Not erring on the side of caution could have eternal consequences).

 

[Genesis315]

Kendy:

But seriously, I thought wet dreams were supposed to stop a few years after puberty? It’s possible that that is a problem.

Your body has to flush itself out now and then. It can’t keep that stuff bottled up forever. It has a limited lifespan and then the body produces new. So, your body needs to flush it out one way or another and wet dreams are the natural way.

 

[Black_Jaque]

But seriously, I thought wet dreams were supposed to stop a few years after puberty? It’s possible that that is a problem.

Wet dreams are one way for the body to discard old semen. Sometimes it can leak out a little bit at a time and goes unnoticed through urinating.

I didn’t take this thread too seriously because I’ve got my doubts about a guy who M’s every day to avoid a wet dream which occurs on the order of weeks.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Daily (frequent or regular) masturbation for a male beyond adolescence is always in every case direct evidence of an emotional or mental/psychological problem.

Whoa buddy, although I don’t think you are saying this, I just want to clarify that people who masturbate aren’t insane or don’t necessarily have major psychological problems. They “may” have psych. problems, or maybe they don’t even know it is a mortal sin. Depending upon the person, all one really has to do is realize that it is definately grave matter and resolve to not do it and that usually takes care of the problem. Fight all your dirty thoughts, keep good custody of the eyes, and accept wet dreams for what they are-natural bodily functions.

As the Church teaches, masturbation is definately grave matter, however that doesn’t mean that the folks that do it are all nuts. If you think otherwise, I’d like to see your sources from verifiable psychological journals…

As to the original poster’s concern, her boyfriend may very well have some issues although I would think they could be rectified without resorting to shock therapy and a lobotomy.

I am not saying masterbation is good. I am just saying that the man is psychological disturbed. He might benefit from regular confession and possibility an accountability buddy.

Amen, Kendy. Regular confession is always a good way of getting rid of any habitual or potentially habitual sin.

 

[LadyJaneGrey]

Thank you all who posted. I do understand the concern for my well-being that underlies most of the posts.

I think a little more explanation is due on my part else I risk my fiance being seeing as some kind of a nut. Also maybe you would understand why he feels so shy and self-conscious when a wet dream does occur.

We live in India. So the social situation is rather different from what you might expect in the West. In university dormitories/hostels particularly in older institutions here two people do share a bed (they’re double beds to conserve space). Also since the climate is hot generally no one uses a covering sheet. So the evidence of a wet dream is on your pyjamas and sheets and clearly evident to whoever’s sharing the bed with you
Also many people aren’t Catholic, and hence I assume masturbate regularly. So a wet dream, despite being a perfectly normal occurrence is still looked at as something weird

The teasing too can get pretty bad particularly in a professional degree institution. Can you imagine how bad it would seem to someone who is shy by nature?

Also let me re-iterate, he does not do it during the holidays and when he is alone. So it is not a problem of self control. And yes, as one poster wanted to know, it really does keep away the wet dreams.

Finally let me share something about him with you. He was working while I was studying. I became ill and had to go on a special diet. So for close to two years, my fiance used to cook for me. And travel a round-trip of slightly more than three hours, changing between 8-10 buses each day, to give me my food. In addition to working around 12-15 hours a day. Plus he deferred his own studies so he could help me with mine

And this is just one of the many things. Most of his sacrifices I never will even know, 'cos he won’t tell me. Do you have any doubts then why I love him so much? If he tells me to jump off a cliff and he’ll catch me, I will. I trust him, he has never failed me. Or rather as we both believe, God, by using my fiance, has never failed me. We pray together a lot.

I do accept his shyness. If it can change through counselling we will try it. If it doesn’t I’m quite prepared to accept his shyness all through our life. To tell the truth I find it a bit appealing too (maybe the mothering instinct in me) but I do understand it does make his life tough sometimes.

If he says he will give it up after marriage I trust him. The only reason I posted this topic is because I believe masturbation is a mortal sin. And I’m scared, if he dies before we are married, he might go to hell. And i don’t ever want him to go to hell. That’s why I was wondering how I could help him, without making his life miserable.

And, I am not going to postpone our wedding. I really do appreciate his honesty

Jane

 

[Pug]

Kendy:

We don’t need to institutionalize them for it.

I agree! No need to think the fellow has mental problems just for masturbating. I think he might benefit from talking to the right priest, though. The priest could help him out in discerning what to do.

 

[cynic]

setter:

Daily (frequent or regular) masturbation for a male beyond adolescence is always in every case direct evidence of an emotional or mental/psychological problem. To believe otherwise shows a naivette of the role and function of healthy human sexuality.

Masturbation it is an unhealthy and grossly distorted use of one’s sexual powers (the power to create and unite).

It does no one any favor to softly or not appropriately label the problem behavior. If the individual feels disturbed by the reality/implications of such an unhealthy habit, then this may be the grace needed to motivated him to take the appropriate measures to address/overcome the problem.

no its isn’t. Its a way of relieving desire, including desires for intimacy when it is unavailable. (Normal) desires are normal. Masturbation is a humiliating and degrading way of dealing with them because it’s seems to hard to resist (although it isn’t too hard, its just requires effort).

 

[setter]

Originally Posted by setter
Daily (frequent or regular) masturbation for a male beyond adolescence is always in every case direct evidence of an emotional or mental/psychological problem.

cynic:

setter:

no its isn’t. Its a way of relieving desire, including desires for intimacy when it is unavailable. (Normal) desires are normal. Masturbation is a humiliating and degrading way of dealing with them because it’s seems to hard to resist (although it isn’t too hard, its just requires effort).

I do not understand why some folks on this thread have a difficult time with understanding post-adolescence frequent/regular masturbation as minimally direct evidence of emotional or psychological/social immaturity, i.e., problem. Perhaps a matter of terminology. To suggest that this means the person is a nutcase in need of institutionalization is a distraction from the seldom mentioned and neglected task of developing self-mastery.

 

[Kendy]

setter:

cynic:

I do not understand why some folks on this thread have a difficult time with understanding post-adolescence frequent/regular

masturbation as minimally direct evidence of emotional or psychological/social immaturity, i.e., problem. Perhaps a matter of terminology. To suggest that this means the person is a nutcase in need of institutionalization is a distraction from the seldom mentioned and neglected task of developing self-mastery.

Because people lack self-mastery in many areas. Overeating, or spending more time than they should on CAF ; it would be good to have complete all the time, but otherwise well-adjusted people masterbate. As the numbers show, those who don’t masterbate are in the minority. Part of definition of being insane is often acting out of the norm.

Also, I just don’t understand why we are avoiding what seems to me the most obvious explantion. Hope this is not too crude, but frankly, the guy is just horny. He’s been in a relationship for five years, which has not been consummated. That’s five years of built up sexual tension. He masterbates to relieve some of that tension. This is why Paul tells us it’s better to marry than to burn with passion.

Kendy

 

[redtech]

If I had to share a bed with another guy and it was noticable that something had happened during the night, then I would do the same thing.

Can you imagine being the other guy? What if you rolled over in it? I have to say, that I don’t blame him.

 

[setter]

Because people lack self-mastery in many areas. Overeating, or spending more time than they should on CAF ; it would be good to have complete all the time, but otherwise well-adjusted people masterbate.

Overeating, overspending, … are not the same as masturbation/self-abuse. Why? I will offer the CCC citations as to why:

2332 Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.

2337 Chastity means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being.

As the numbers show, those who don’t masterbate are in the minority.

Numbers do not impress me, especially so in areas of faith and morals for those who are baptised Christians:

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” Matt. 7:13-14

Part of definition of being insane is often acting out of the norm.

I will repeat myself:

Originally Posted by setter

To suggest that this means the person is a nutcase in need of institutionalization is a distraction from the seldom mentioned and neglected task of developing self-mastery.

Also, I just don’t understand why we are avoiding what seems to me the most obvious explantion. Hope this is not too crude, but frankly, the guy is just horny. He’s been in a relationship for five years, which has not been consummated. That’s five years of built up sexual tension. He masterbates to relieve some of that tension. This is why Paul tells us it’s better to marry than to burn with passion.

St. Paul was offering practical advice “…for it is better to marry than to be on fire.” (1 Cor. 7:8) to widows and unmarried persons. The CCC offers this moral imperative to all baptised persons and “practical advice”:

2348 All the baptized are called to chastity. The Christian has “put on Christ,” the model for all chastity. All Christ’s faithful are called to lead a chaste life in keeping with their particular states of life. At the moment of his Baptism, the Christian is pledged to lead his affective life in chastity.

2339 Chastity includes an *apprenticeship in * *self-mastery * which is a training in human freedom. The alternative is clear: either man governs his passions and finds peace, or he lets himself be dominated by them and becomes unhappy.

2342 Self-mastery is a long and exacting work. One can never consider it acquired once and for all. It presupposes renewed effort at all stages of life. The effort required can be more intense in certain periods, such as when the personality is being formed during childhood and adolescence.