Fiance's Masturbation

[Sugabee43]

Tiffany,

Catholic teaching is that masturbation is illicit. It’s not about ‘being your puppet’; it’s about following the life God has commanded us as a chaste people. I know there are other Christian faiths that do not consider masturbation sin, but when seen with the eyes of a sacramental faith, it is disordered and an affront to God and the other spouse.

 

[SuperLuigi]

My husband definitely uses it as a stress relief, among other things.

In the short run, maybe.

I’ll bet most of hose who commit adultery and fornication also have some level of stress relief after the act, too.

But masturbation does affect men in negative ways.

It’s not worth the trade.

He’s tried counseling,

What kind of counseling? A lot of counselors are fine with masturbation, pornography, leaving a relationship instead of really fixing it, running off with your new lover after your spouse just died…you get the idea.

prayer,

What do you mean by this? Saying an Our Father every night before bedtime probably won’t kill this. He needs to sit down and say the rosary. Daily.

all kinds of things but nothing seems to work.

To quote a priest “either a person will stop praying the rosary or they will stop sinning”.

Consider what I have said.

 

[Sugabee43]

In the short run, maybe.

I’ll bet most of hose who commit adultery and fornication also have some level of stress relief after the act, too.

But masturbation does affect men in negative ways.

It’s not worth the trade.

What kind of counseling? A lot of counselors are fine with masturbation, pornography, leaving a relationship instead of really fixing it, running off with your new lover after your spouse just died…you get the idea.

What do you mean by this? Saying an Our Father every night before bedtime probably won’t kill this. He needs to sit down and say the rosary. Daily.

To quote a priest “either a person will stop praying the rosary or they will stop sinning”.

Consider what I have said.

By counseling, I mean psychologists, therapists, etc.- multiple. Catholic and non-Catholic. YEARS. By prayer, I mean, he goes to Adoration; “extra” Masses, Bible reading and private prayer. Not “just” an Our Father.

But I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Captain_America]

Regular confession would help; it’s hard for an adult male to tell another adult male that he does this.

At a certain point, he’s physically damaging himself. I don’t get it; I don’t see how he gets much out of this at all.

It’s got to make it difficult for him to deal with people, particularly women.

Good luck; God bless. So try weekly confession there.

 

[SuperLuigi]

This is a big enough problem, I’d suggest postponing the wedding until he gets a handle on this. It’s a difficult thing to overcome, and even if he wants to quit, it will take him awhile. Don’t start a marriage with this hanging over your heads. It is an issue of fidelity. He is basically cheating on you…with himself.

It is a problem, I think postponing a wedding over this is maybe a bit on the extreme side.

Take it from a guy, you’re not likely to date someone who has never at some point masturbated in his life.

I know some women may refuse to date a guy who masturbates, but they also need to keep in mind that you can sit around, pass up good men on arguably scrupulous ground while your years in life tick away.

Surely, something must be said about that.

Now, if he doesn’t want to accept Catholic teaching, well, that’s a different deal, I think.

 

[SuperLuigi]

At a certain point, he’s physically damaging himself. I don’t get it; I don’t see how he gets much out of this at all.

Well, it’s a bad habit and not so easy to break. At the time it’s being done or if one is “in the mood”, the gains can seem luxurious.

 

[LittleRose]

… you can sit around, pass up good men on arguably scrupulous ground while your years in life tick away.

This isn’t something the OP’s fiancee did in his distant past. It’s something he does now, with what even some men on this thread consider to be unusual frequency.

Every woman has to decide what her standards are, and “He’s a good man, except he has an addiction to (insert habit or substance here)” wouldn’t cut it for a lot of us. It shouldn’t have to. It’s not scrupulous to want to start a family with someone who is not actively battling an addiction to anything (assuming that’s what this is), whether it is masturbation or alcohol.

Postponing a wedding while you figure out the nature of a problem and find a solution is not the same as letting “years in life tick away”. Even if a woman does wait many years to enter into marriage with a man who is fully ready, that’s not a waste, as long as she is doing something constructive with her life in the meantime.

Now, if he doesn’t want to accept Catholic teaching, well, that’s a different deal, I think.

That would certainly be a reasonable “dealbreaker”.

 

[Estevao]

This isn’t something the OP’s fiancee did in his distant past. It’s something he does now, with what even some men on this thread consider to be unusual frequency.

Every woman has to decide what her standards are, and “He’s a good man, except he has an addiction to (insert habit or substance here)” wouldn’t cut it for a lot of us. It shouldn’t have to. It’s not scrupulous to want to start a family with someone who is not actively battling an addiction to anything (assuming that’s what this is), whether it is masturbation or alcohol.

**Postponing a wedding while you figure out the nature of a problem and find a solution is not the same as letting “years in life tick away”. Even if a woman does wait many years to enter into marriage with a man who is fully ready, that’s not a waste, as long as she is doing something constructive with her life in the meantime.

**

That would certainly be a reasonable “dealbreaker”.

If I were a man battling an addiction, I would be rather disgusted that my wife-to-be would consider leaving me over this. I personally would certainly want to get “clean” for me, but to do it for somebody who already has demonstrated an inability to love “for better or for worse” (or as I routinely see it posted on facebook courtesy of Marylin Monroe: “I’m selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best. Live. Laugh. Love. Pray. Eat. Love <3”) well, i would certainly be reconsidering this woman if she demonstrated such an attitude.

 

[Marysann]

Estevoa, “for better or for worse” is for after the wedding. Engagement is the time to decern whether or not one can live with another person with all of their foibles. No one is going to change after marriage, man or woman, if they don’t want to. The OP obviously knows this, and knows better than to enter marriage with the idea of making her husband into a reclamation project. That is why she is trying to figure out how to handle this serious problem now.

 

[The_Bucket]

Estevoa, “for better or for worse” is for after the wedding. Engagement is the time to decern whether or not one can live with another person with all of their foibles. No one is going to change after marriage, man or woman, if they don’t want to. The OP obviously knows this, and knows better than to enter marriage with the idea of making her husband into a reclamation project. That is why she is trying to figure out how to handle this serious problem now.

Quite right. It’s not like the OP is saying that she doesn’t love her fiance. She’s saying she doesn’t know if she can deal with the hurt. It’s not a rejection. It’s preservation of her own sanity and, I imagine, preserving her potential future children from an addiction. I think it’s prudent.

In my own case, I told my wife back in the days when she was just my girlfriend that I “had a porn problem.” Past tense. And that’s because I thought it was past tense. Turns out I know little about addictions and didn’t realize that this kind of thing can come roaring back if you’re not actively fighting it day by day. I really thought it just faded away after I distracted myself by coming a decently social human being. Wrong.

If I knew I was an actual addict and told her… I don’t know what her response would have been. Probably not good. And I couldn’t blame her for it.

My marriage is strained from time to time due to memories of how I acted and how I just constantly lied when I was in the depths of my addiction. Flashes of that behavior make her wonder if I’m not engaged in my recovery program. I can’t blame her for that either! It’s prudent to make these calls now, at the courtship stage, because once you’re in the marriage there are all sorts of complicating and painful factors.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

If I were a man battling an addiction, I would be rather disgusted that my wife-to-be would consider leaving me over this. I personally would certainly want to get “clean” for me, but to do it for somebody who already has demonstrated an inability to love “for better or for worse” (or as I routinely see it posted on facebook courtesy of Marylin Monroe: “I’m selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best. Live. Laugh. Love. Pray. Eat. Love <3”) well, i would certainly be reconsidering this woman if she demonstrated such an attitude.

The key being “battling an addiction” The OP’s fiancee is not batteling anything, he is defending it. Would you advise someone to continue a relationship to marriage and potentially start a family with a meth addiction who did not want to get help and defended the addiction?

My advice:
Have a frank conversation, see if the fiancee’s beliefs, faith and values are something that line up with your own. Or we will see future posts from the OP about how she is getting a divorce or the husband does not want children or wants children to be atheists.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

The key being “battling an addiction” The OP’s fiancee is not batteling anything, he is defending it. Would you advise someone to continue a relationship to marriage and potentially start a family with a meth addiction who did not want to get help and defended the addiction?

I’m going to disagree with this, and the several similar posts that others have posted. Masturbation is not to be equated to drug addiction, or a whole host of other addictions. Personally, if I were to compared it to an addiction, I would be more apt to choose, say, and eating disorder. Mankind needs to eat, mankind needs to reproduce; mankind does not need to take meth.

The urge to have sex, especially for men, is very powerful, and difficult to overcome. Masturbation is simply the quick way to get rid of that urge.

My advice:
Have a frank conversation, see if the fiancee’s beliefs, faith and values are something that line up with your own.

Now this is something we can all agree with. It is also something couples MUST do if they are to have a successful marriage.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m going to disagree with this, and the several similar posts that others have posted. Masturbation is not to be equated to drug addiction, or a whole host of other addictions. Personally, if I were to compared it to an addiction, I would be more apt to choose, say, and eating disorder. Mankind needs to eat, mankind needs to reproduce; mankind does not need to take meth.

The urge to have sex, especially for men, is very powerful, and difficult to overcome. Masturbation is simply the quick way to get rid of that urge.

Now this is something we can all agree with. It is also something couples MUST do if they are to have a successful marriage.

I wasn’t trying to equate it with a drug addition but rather show that the person I was responding to was not being logical in the condemnation of someone who would reconsider a life binding decision based on this type of information. They are to be commended for at least talking about this before the wedding as many wives are left to deal with this after the ink has dried. It is certainly advisable that the woman in this situation take this information and apply it to the criteria she has for who will be the father of her children and the person responsible to help her achieve heaven and navigate the stormy waters of sexuality.

I agree it is not equal to an addiction. It is also not something that should be ignored as “just a regular guy” thing either. This man is disordered and disordered and not faithful to the Church and his God. That would be a deal breaker if this woman was my daughter…

 

[The_Bucket]

I agree it is not equal to an addiction. It is also not something that should be ignored as “just a regular guy” thing either. This man is disordered and disordered and not faithful to the Church and his God. That would be a deal breaker if this woman was my daughter…

It really depends who you are. As I said earlier, there are a lot of guys out there who masturbate frequently that are not psychologically dependent on it. I mean, not every smoker is addicted either. I can grab a cigar or a cigarette or two from time to time and have no urge to smoke more. And “from time to time” I mean like a couple times a year. I can have a few drinks one night and then none for days, weeks, months! I’m not dependent on those substances.

But I assure you that I was absolutely addicted to pornography and masturbation.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It really depends who you are. As I said earlier, there are a lot of guys out there who masturbate frequently that are not psychologically dependent on it. I mean, not every smoker is addicted either. I can grab a cigar or a cigarette or two from time to time and have no urge to smoke more. And “from time to time” I mean like a couple times a year. I can have a few drinks one night and then none for days, weeks, months! I’m not dependent on those substances.

But I assure you that I was absolutely addicted to pornography and masturbation.

I hear you.

When my wife and I first started dating I was into bad bad things. I was a daily masturbator with porn all over. And I mean all over. It was on the coffee table in my living room. When my future wife was serious enough with me to bring up this type of conversation she said flat out that she would not date someone with porn. She said she had no interest in playing games of hiding it and just keeping it a secret. That her “husband” was not the type of person or man who would do this.
So here is what I did. (this was back in the day when there was internet but a lot of porn was still magazines and movies.) I went and got all my “stash” enough to fill two hefty bags. There was quite a bit of my earnings represented in this. And I put each and every one. One by one, into the bags in front of her. Her eyes were giant because I don’t think she knew just how pervasive it was. I was done. And while I struggled with masturbation for some time after, the porn was gone. Then, with the help of growing faith and frequent confession I overcame a problem with habitual masturbation. It was not “cold turkey” like the porn but rather followed the trajectory of my faith. I had to deal with bad confessors, NFP frustrations, and just plain old habits born out of boredom. But it can be done, and should be done. It is not like a cigar from time to time, because that is not prohibited by God.

 

[The_Bucket]

In your case, I think it was a “bad habit.” In mine, I know it is/was addiction. Brother, I have dreams about acting out. And they are not good dreams. They are not the typical sexual dream which is fine. They are dreams literally about watching porn and masturbating and feeling awful about it. It’s horrendous.

In-person recovery, help from the subforum here on CAF and a change in my disposition towards Christ has assisted me greatly. But prior to doing all of that, I literally had no idea how to deal with daily life. I actually considered taking up drinking as a habit to calm my nerve and maybe suppress my masturbation problem. Think about that for a second. I was considering intentionally becoming an alcoholic to somehow combat my other issue. Insanity. Pure insanity.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

In your case, I think it was a “bad habit.” In mine, I know it is/was addiction. Brother, I have dreams about acting out. And they are not good dreams. They are not the typical sexual dream which is fine. They are dreams literally about watching porn and masturbating and feeling awful about it. It’s horrendous.

In-person recovery, help from the subforum here on CAF and a change in my disposition towards Christ has assisted me greatly. But prior to doing all of that, I literally had no idea how to deal with daily life. I actually considered taking up drinking as a habit to calm my nerve and maybe suppress my masturbation problem. Think about that for a second. I was considering intentionally becoming an alcoholic to somehow combat my other issue. Insanity. Pure insanity.

it is a struggle for many men.

But I think we all are in agreement: The OP needs to know about this and make an informed decision.

 

[faber7]

reclaimsexualhealth.com for both of you. God Bless.

 

[leoncaruthers]

Don’t know if it’s been posted yet (still new to the forum), but the video series here yourbrainonporn.com/ started me on my road back to faith. Not kidding. It’s entirely secular, but I realized what the sin of consuming pornography was doing to my brain, and that shocked me into trying to quit. I didn’t even think I had a problem… until I tried to stop. That site was another giant data point telling me that the church had had this right all along.

The physical aspects of behavioral addiction don’t go away when you become aware of them, but learning the science of it made it absolutely impossible for me to ignore, and strengthened my resolve when times got tough. In the end, what really made the difference was the sure knowledge that every time I looked, I was hurting myself. It’s one thing to believe it’s wrong and want to stop for someone else, but when you *know *it’s a persistent and growing injury, that you are at the mercy of chemistry, it can make a difference.

 

[SuperLuigi]

This isn’t something the OP’s fiancee did in his distant past. It’s something he does now, with what even some men on this thread consider to be unusual frequency.

If he’s is trying to stop, that should make a world of difference. I wonder how “some men on this thread” would feel if they got dumped over something like this and they were trying.

I bet they wouldn’t feel great.

Every woman has to decide what her standards are, and “He’s a good man, except he has an addiction to (insert habit or substance here)” wouldn’t cut it for a lot of us. It shouldn’t have to

Substance abuse and masturbation are not comparable, but even so, if the man is trying, it’s entirely different than if he were not. :yup:

You’re right, and if women want to pass up a guy who is or is working on being a good Catholic because of a technicality, well, that’s her choice.

I just hope she doesn’t end up alone and old for being too picky.

BTW, a lot of women masturbate too.

Let’s not forget that. :yup:

. It’s not scrupulous to want to start a family with someone who is not actively battling an addiction to anything (assuming that’s what this is), whether it is masturbation or alcohol.

I’d go for impractical. But hey, if you want to pass up decent, well-meaning Catholic men, it’s your life.

Postponing a wedding while you figure out the nature of a problem and find a solution is not the same as letting “years in life tick away”.

The problem: masturbation

Solution: prayer, practice, penance and at least TRYING to kick the habit!

Even if a woman does wait many years to enter into marriage with a man who is fully ready, that’s not a waste,

Long engagements can be a death knell for a relationship.

as long as she is doing something constructive with her life in the meantime.

Like passing up more and more men struggling to get over masturbation? Why stop there? I mean, if a guy even has lust in his heart, it’s a sin. Why not post-pone the wedding over that?

And what about if the woman masturbates? I’ve dated women who’ve masturbated. Should I have written them all off because of it?