Fifteen Secret Tortures question

[souldiver]

This is the Fifteen Secret Tortures that I saw on Lord of Pardon tiny pamphlets sold in some Catholic churches.

*"THE FIFTEEN SECRET TORTURES AND SUFFERINGS OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST

"I looked for one that would comfort me, and I found none"
Revealed to the pious, God-loving Sister Mary Magdalen of Sancta Clara Order, Franciscan, who lived, died and was beatified in Rome. Jesus fulfilled the wish of this Sister, who desired to ardently know something about the secret sufferings which He endured the night before His death.

This devotion is approved and recommended by His Holiness Clement XII, 1730-1740)

1. They fastened My feet with a rope and dragged Me over the stepping stones of the staircase, down into a filthy, nauseating cellar.

2. They took off My clothing and stung My body with iron joints.

3. They attached a rope around My body and pulled Me on the ground from end to end.

4. They hanged Me on a wooden piece with a slip knot until I slipped out and fell down. Overwhelmed by this torture, I wept bloody tears.

5. They tied Me to a post and pierced My body with various arms.

6. They struck Me with stones and burnt Me with blazing embers and torches.

7. They pierced Me with awls; sharp spears tore My skin, flesh and arteries out of My body.

8. They tied Me to a post and made Me stand barefoot on an incandescent metal sheet.

9. They crowned Me with an iron crown and wrapped My eyes with the dirtiest possible rags.

10. They made Me sit on a chair covered with sharp pointed nails, causing deep wounds in My body.

11. They poured on My wounds liquid lead and resin and, after this torture, they pressed Me on the nailed chair so that the nails went deeper and deeper into My flesh.

12. For shame and affliction, they drove needles into the holes of My uprooted beard. They tied my hands behind My back and led Me walking out of prison with strikes and blows.

13. They threw Me upon a cross and attached Me so tightly that I could hardly breathe anymore.

14. They threw at My head as I lay on the earth, and they stepped on Me, hurting My breast. Then, taking a thorn from My crown, they drove it into My tongue.

15. They poured into My mouth the most immodest excretions, as they uttered the most infamous expressions about Me.

Then, Jesus added,
"My daughter, I desire that you let everybody know the Fifteen Secret Tortures in order that everyone of them be honored."
"**Anyone who daily offers Me, with love, one of these sufferings and says with fervor the following prayer, will be rewarded with eternal glory on the day of judgement"**." *

I this for real? Especially this: Anyone who daily offers Me, with love, one of these sufferings and says with fervor the following prayer, will be rewarded with eternal glory on the day of judgement." Do they mean offer “one of these sufferings” as you will do it to yourself such as pouring liquid lead and resin to your wounds? Isn’t that way too painful and destructive?

 

[Mike30]

This is the Fifteen Secret Tortures that I saw on Lord of Pardon tiny pamphlets sold in some Catholic churches.

*"THE FIFTEEN SECRET TORTURES AND SUFFERINGS OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST

"I looked for one that would comfort me, and I found none"
Revealed to the pious, God-loving Sister Mary Magdalen of Sancta Clara Order, Franciscan, who lived, died and was beatified in Rome. Jesus fulfilled the wish of this Sister, who desired to ardently know something about the secret sufferings which He endured the night before His death.

This devotion is approved and recommended by His Holiness Clement XII, 1730-1740)

1. They fastened My feet with a rope and dragged Me over the stepping stones of the staircase, down into a filthy, nauseating cellar.

2. They took off My clothing and stung My body with iron joints.

3. They attached a rope around My body and pulled Me on the ground from end to end.

4. They hanged Me on a wooden piece with a slip knot until I slipped out and fell down. Overwhelmed by this torture, I wept bloody tears.

5. They tied Me to a post and pierced My body with various arms.

6. They struck Me with stones and burnt Me with blazing embers and torches.

7. They pierced Me with awls; sharp spears tore My skin, flesh and arteries out of My body.

8. They tied Me to a post and made Me stand barefoot on an incandescent metal sheet.

9. They crowned Me with an iron crown and wrapped My eyes with the dirtiest possible rags.

10. They made Me sit on a chair covered with sharp pointed nails, causing deep wounds in My body.

11. They poured on My wounds liquid lead and resin and, after this torture, they pressed Me on the nailed chair so that the nails went deeper and deeper into My flesh.

12. For shame and affliction, they drove needles into the holes of My uprooted beard. They tied my hands behind My back and led Me walking out of prison with strikes and blows.

13. They threw Me upon a cross and attached Me so tightly that I could hardly breathe anymore.

14. They threw at My head as I lay on the earth, and they stepped on Me, hurting My breast. Then, taking a thorn from My crown, they drove it into My tongue.

15. They poured into My mouth the most immodest excretions, as they uttered the most infamous expressions about Me.

Then, Jesus added,
"My daughter, I desire that you let everybody know the Fifteen Secret Tortures in order that everyone of them be honored."
"**Anyone who daily offers Me, with love, one of these sufferings and says with fervor the following prayer, will be rewarded with eternal glory on the day of judgement"***."

I this for real? Especially this: Anyone who daily offers Me, with love, one of these sufferings and says with fervor the following prayer, will be rewarded with eternal glory on the day of judgement." Do they mean offer “one of these sufferings” as you will do it to yourself such as pouring liquid lead and resin to your wounds? Isn’t that way too painful and destructive?

As I understand it this particular devotion came about due to several visions experienced by St. Bernard of Clairvaux. It is said that Pope Clement II gave a personal imprmateur so that they could be published. I don’t know if that is true or not. I also don’t know for sure if the Church has endorsed the visions as being authentic, but even if they did you would still be free to believe or disbelieve them. They fall under the general heading of a private revelation.

 

[Laudate_Dominum]

And just imagine… if one did all of those things out of love for Our Lord it would never even scratch the surface of the love He bore us whilst He suffered the very same.

 

[Fiasco]

It`s baloney.

If all of that had been inflicted on Him, He would have died.
Its worse than the over-the-top depictions in "The Passion of The Christ". And thats saying a lot!

These tortures were supposedly revealed to a Poor Clare nun. ive the feeling that she had an unhealthy fascination of our Lords physical suffering; and her imagination filled in the “blanks”.
Maria Valtorta would`ve been hard put to make up something as revolting as those.

 

[Laudate_Dominum]

It`s baloney.

If all of that had been inflicted on Him, He would have died.

I don’t have much to say on the truth of these visions. Personally I really don’t believe them. What did happen to Him was brutal enough. Even the blow He received at His “trial” would have been unimaginably horrendous in light of Who He Is. That blow its self would have been enough a thousand times over to redeem us if He had offered it to His Father in expiation of our sins.

However I digress. What I was going to say was that since He Is God… He could have sustained His human body up as long as He wished in the face of such tortures. Nothing could kill Him. The Cross didn’t kill Him. He gave up His life by His own will for us.

Nothing Man could have done would have killed Him. Unless He allowed it.

So yes He could had all that inflicted upon Him by His own will for us.

 

[paperwight66]

I don’t have much to say on the truth of these visions. Personally I really don’t believe them. What did happen to Him was brutal enough. Even the blow He received at His “trial” would have been unimaginably horrendous in light of Who He Is. That blow its self would have been enough a thousand times over to redeem us if He had offered it to His Father in expiation of our sins.

However I digress. What I was going to say was that since He Is God… He could have sustained His human body up as long as He wished in the face of such tortures. Nothing could kill Him. The Cross didn’t kill Him. He gave up His life by His own will for us.

Nothing Man could have done would have killed Him. Unless He allowed it.

So yes He could had all that inflicted upon Him by His own will for us.

I’m not so sure about that. We are told in the Gospels that He experienced hunger, thirst and weariness. For example. after the Temptations in the Wilderness, and when He met the woman at the well in Samaria.

We are also told by St. Paul, that He ‘was a man like us in all things, except sin’.

 

[Reepicheep]

(Snipped)
Then, Jesus added,
“My daughter, I desire that you let everybody know the Fifteen Secret Tortures in order that everyone of them be honored.”
"Anyone who daily offers Me, with love, one of these sufferings and says with fervor the following prayer, will be rewarded with eternal glory on the day of judgement"."

I this for real? Especially this: Anyone who daily offers Me, with love, one of these sufferings and says with fervor the following prayer, will be rewarded with eternal glory on the day of judgement." Do they mean offer “one of these sufferings” as you will do it to yourself such as pouring liquid lead and resin to your wounds? Isn’t that way too painful and destructive?

As to the truth of the factual claims, I don’t know. It is (or claims to be) a private revelation; we’re free to have our own opinions.
As to “offering these sufferings” I don’t believe that means “inflict them on ourselves”. I think it means “offer in prayer”…using the prayer mentioned in the revelation.

 

[Hesychios]

People didn’t have televisions and movie screens in days gone by. The imagination has it’s attractions, people with limited knowledge of anatomy and physiology or even of history could dream up all kinds of things. Obviously this goes beyond the Gospel accounts into fiction.

I am sure the author of this text derived some genuine spiritual benefit from it but it does fall into a predictable pattern of thought for later western Christians who were accustomed to meditating in a more expansive way on the sufferings of Christ than on the triumph of Christ over death.

 

[patrick457]

People didn’t have televisions and movie screens in days gone by. The imagination has it’s attractions, people with limited knowledge of anatomy and physiology or even of history could dream up all kinds of things. Obviously this goes beyond the Gospel accounts into fiction.

I am sure the author of this text derived some genuine spiritual benefit from it but it does fall into a predictable pattern of thought for later western Christians who were accustomed to meditating in a more expansive way on the sufferings of Christ than on the triumph of Christ over death.

Actually I did see an attempt to refute this idea (by our very own Mr. Ron Conte, no less!) Personally I also put don’t put much faith into them either, though this is strictly my personal opinion: as others mentioned these supposed ‘secret’ tortures are rather extreme.

 

[Laudate_Dominum]

I’m not so sure about that. We are told in the Gospels that He experienced hunger, thirst and weariness. For example. after the Temptations in the Wilderness, and when He met the woman at the well in Samaria.

We are also told by St. Paul, that He ‘was a man like us in all things, except sin’.

He allowed Himself to feel hunger, thirst, etc. That doesn’t mean they would have killed Him unless He allowed it. This is God we’re talking about. He can effect a substantial change in bread and wine without change to the accidents, something unknown in nature (substantial change is known but also effects the accidents where as Transubstantiation in the Most Holy Eucharist does not).

I’m quite sure He could have sustained His life if He never consumed a nutrient in all his 33 years. That doesn’t devalue His hunger and fasting, etc. He would still have felt it and experienced it. It just wouldn’t have killed Him.

 

[Khalid]

It`s baloney.

If all of that had been inflicted on Him, He would have died.
Its worse than the over-the-top depictions in "The Passion of The Christ". And thats saying a lot!

These tortures were supposedly revealed to a Poor Clare nun. ive the feeling that she had an unhealthy fascination of our Lords physical suffering; and her imagination filled in the “blanks”.
Maria Valtorta would`ve been hard put to make up something as revolting as those.

He was God and Man. I think he could have suffered a lot more than the average man, until his mission was fulfilled - to be enthroned on the Cross. Even though he was fully man, he could not have died prematurely, say, of a heart attack, or murder, or an accident with a carpenter’s saw. There’s no reason to believe that anything could have killed him prematurely, as the Crucifixion is what he was sent and saved for, as our Lord said, “For this you have saved me”.

I personally find the Passion of the Christ (and the private revelations it was based on, Bl Catherine Emmerich’s Life of Jesus Christ) to be incredibly faith-affirming, and to have some amazing details in them of things that she couldn’t have possibly known - the night sky’s constellations as visible in Roman Judaea (not Palestine, it wasn’t Palestine until 135 AD), 31 or 33 AD, towns of Roman Judaea that were unknown to everyone except for some archaeologists (and I think even unknown to archaeologists at that time, too), etc. I’ve wanted to read “Mystical City of God” as well, but can’t find it anywhere.

I have a great interest in Valtorta’s “Poem of the Man-God”, as it supposedly has some of the same features as Bl. Catherine Emmerich’s private revelations (i.e. corroboration from later archaeological discoveries and computer simulations of the night sky 2000 years ago), but it it prohibitively priced ($300 for five books), and something about the title turns me off of it, and strikes me as doctrinally unsound: Jesus isn’t “Man-God”, but “God-Man”. Not man become God, but God become man. To reverse it to me seems…incorrect, wrong, and so I have reservations about the book itself.

 

[Khalid]

People didn’t have televisions and movie screens in days gone by. The imagination has it’s attractions, people with limited knowledge of anatomy and physiology or even of history could dream up all kinds of things. Obviously this goes beyond the Gospel accounts into fiction.

I am sure the author of this text derived some genuine spiritual benefit from it but it does fall into a predictable pattern of thought for later western Christians who were accustomed to meditating in a more expansive way on the sufferings of Christ than on the triumph of Christ over death.

Of all things Orthodox, I do greatly appreciate that above all else. I think that “satisfaction atonement” naturally lends itself to the kind of thought you describe, where as Ransom atonement and Christus Victor (the doctrine that all Orthodox I have ever seen held, if they held a definite doctrine) focuses on the redemption from sin, the exodus from the kingdom of Satan, and the conquering of death and sin by Christ. (That’s why I personally believe a mix of Ransom and Christus Victor, and not Satisfaction.)

From Anselmian Satisfaction, it’s only a small step to the penal substitution of the Reformers, which, surprisingly, nearly overlooks his suffering entirely (maybe because penal substitution is such an inherently revolting doctrine), to the point where the crucifix isn’t used, and focuses on Christ’s resurrection alone (although the Protestants very rarely think of Christ in the exalted terms of defeating death and sin, and more of the terms of a divine can of white spray-paint to cover the black of the fallen soul with imputed righteousness - it’s more about “what Christ did for Me”, instead of what Christ did).

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Of all things Orthodox, I do greatly appreciate that above all else. I think that “satisfaction atonement” naturally lends itself to the kind of thought you describe, where as Ransom atonement and Christus Victor (the doctrine that all Orthodox I have ever seen held, if they held a definite doctrine) focuses on the redemption from sin, the exodus from the kingdom of Satan, and the conquering of death and sin by Christ. (That’s why I personally believe a mix of Ransom and Christus Victor, and not Satisfaction.)

From Anselmian Satisfaction, it’s only a small step to the penal substitution of the Reformers, which, surprisingly, nearly overlooks his suffering entirely (maybe because penal substitution is such an inherently revolting doctrine), to the point where the crucifix isn’t used, and focuses on Christ’s resurrection alone (although the Protestants very rarely think of Christ in the exalted terms of defeating death and sin, and more of the terms of a divine can of white spray-paint to cover the black of the fallen soul with imputed righteousness - it’s more about “what Christ did for Me”, instead of what Christ did).

I don’t think that these views are in anyway incompatible with the churches teaching on satisfaction. Just as any sin is infinite in regards to the fact that it is an offense seperating you from an infinite God, so any satisfaction offered by Christ would be infinitely sufficient because it is offered by an infinite person. From this it is clear that satisfaction is only a part of the larger whole, which is Christs conquest of sin and liberation of those captive to death and the evil one.

 

[souldiver]

As to the truth of the factual claims, I don’t know. It is (or claims to be) a private revelation; we’re free to have our own opinions.
As to “offering these sufferings” I don’t believe that means “inflict them on ourselves”. I think it means “offer in prayer”…using the prayer mentioned in the revelation.

I also thought thet it mean “offer in prayer” too at first. But then, my dad got surprised and understood that it means that you need to inflict it to yourself, then I thought it’s possible.

It didn’t say “offer one of these tortues as to inflict to it to yourself” or “offer one of these tortues as to offer in prayer”. I wish I could ask a clergyman for this.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

I also thought thet it mean “offer in prayer” too at first. But then, my dad got surprised and understood that it means that you need to inflict it to yourself, then I thought it’s possible.

It didn’t say “offer one of these tortues as to inflict to it to yourself” or “offer one of these tortues as to offer in prayer”. I wish I could ask a clergyman for this.

It must mean to offer it in prayer, for otherwise it is asking you to place “Immodest excretions” in your mouth, and that can’t be right.:nope:

 

[Allegra]

I this for real? Especially this: Anyone who daily offers Me, with love, one of these sufferings and says with fervor the following prayer, will be rewarded with eternal glory on the day of judgement." Do they mean offer “one of these sufferings” as you will do it to yourself such as pouring liquid lead and resin to your wounds? Isn’t that way too painful and destructive?

I’m pretty certain that it means you are to offer it in prayer.