Fight or Flight?

[pathia]

It’s rapidly becoming clear, that whatever passes congress in regards to heathcare isn’t going to help folks in my situation. Neither party really seems to be doing anything except screaming at each other. As with many things, they’ll water it down and agree to so many concessions on each side, that it will do nothing except cost a bunch of money. (I’m such an optimist, can’t you tell?)

Would it be morally wrong to flee the country? Am I being a coward? Does it have any bearing on my faith? Do I hold any allegiance to this place? It’s not like the Church is only in one country, there will be Catholicism pretty much wherever I go. Is it OK to go to a place where I feel I’ll have actual justice? Is it OK to flee to a country that may be more hostile to the church, but less hostile to me? Is that taking the ‘easy way out’?

 

[fultonfish]

Putting aside the issue of insurance and how would you pay for it, where would you go to get higher quality medical treatment for the highly unusual and terrible condition that you have?

What you have is extremely unique.

It is possible that there is no place that has treatment for what you have.

What you are doing now [emergency room + bankruptcy] seems to get you some kind of treatment even if it’s not red carpet treatment.

I mean, like, where would you go to get a cure for what you have?

I knew somebody who had bad arthritis and a severe limp. Very thin. And then he died pretty young and at his funeral I learned that his condition was far far worse than I could have guessed. His limp was because he had had a leg amputated due to some kind of “unmanageable” condition [he had excellent doctors and was there all the time] and he wore a prosthetic leg except when the stump got infected and they had to do more cutting. Eventually, he got a brain tumor and died.

Somebody else got operated on for huge benign tumors two or three times a year until there was nothing left to cut off. Best doctors on the planet who worked basically for free because of lousy insurance. The tumors pressed on nerves and caused terrible pain and no amount of drugs could make the pain go away. They took a fall just before I visited and I was asked to pick them up. How would I do that without screwing up my back; I tried and the person weighed NOTHING. They were so light they flew up! OMG! Eventually, the person said they couldn’t do it anymore and just died. Died very young.

Sometimes there is just nothing you can do. Sometimes some things just cannot be fixed.

Some people in that situation spend their time praying for others who have no one to pray for them.

My one legged friend … the priest at his funeral said his purpose in life was to suffer. He spent his life in prayer, praying for others. And he publicly confessed that he failed a lot.

Pathia, just keep a rosary in your hands at all times. When you’re in the hospital waiting room, when you are alone, when you are on a bus going to or from, pray the rosary over and over.

Visit the prayer threads on this CA forum, you don’t have to post, just pray for all those people who are in some kind of bind.

That’s what I do.

 

[pathia]

Putting aside the issue of insurance and how would you pay for it, where would you go to get higher quality medical treatment for the highly unusual and terrible condition that you have?

What you have is extremely unique.

It is possible that there is no place that has treatment for what you have.

My debt comes from things anyone can get. Pneumonia, gallstones, kidney stones, appendicitis, things like that. The reason I can’t get coverage is my ‘unusual and terrible’ condition. That in and of itself isn’t too hard to treat, the drugs are available overseas, covered and much much cheaper. I import illegally right now, but it’s getting confiscated more and more often by customs.

My condition would be fully covered in Canada, UK, just about any european country. Even Austrailia I believe, it is only here I’m stuck in a loophole. I could move to just about any 1st world country and improve my medical situation, which is why I am considering it so seriously now.

 

[fultonfish]

My debt comes from things anyone can get. Pneumonia, gallstones, kidney stones, appendicitis, things like that. The reason I can’t get coverage is my ‘unusual and terrible’ condition. That in and of itself isn’t too hard to treat, the drugs are available overseas, covered and much much cheaper. I import illegally right now, but it’s getting confiscated more and more often by customs.

My condition would be fully covered in Canada, UK, just about any european country. Even Austrailia I believe, it is only here I’m stuck in a loophole. I could move to just about any 1st world country and improve my medical situation, which is why I am considering it so seriously now.

If you have to get drugs from overseas, then does that mean the drugs are banned by the Food & Drug Administration? Maybe your complaint is not with the insurance industry or the U.S. medical industry, but with the U.S. Federal government bureaucracy that for some reason has banned the drugs you need.

Under Obamacare, the Federal government would become much much more intrusive in your life and if you have that many surgeries and medical procedures and hospital admissions, then your costs to “the system” would result in your being cut off completely under Obamacare.

 

[pathia]

If you have to get drugs from overseas, then does that mean the drugs are banned by the Food & Drug Administration? Maybe your complaint is not with the insurance industry or the U.S. medical industry, but with the U.S. Federal government bureaucracy that for some reason has banned the drugs you need.

Under Obamacare, the Federal government would become much much more intrusive in your life and if you have that many surgeries and medical procedures and hospital admissions, then your costs to “the system” would result in your being cut off completely under Obamacare.

No, they are just very expensive. They’re over $1000 a month here, less than $100 a month from India.

Also, sorry, I don’t buy the death panel argument, don’t bother mentioning it. You can mention it until you’re blue in the face. I’ve already seen death panels, they’re called insurance companies. My mother’s dropped her coverage while she was in the middle of fighting ovarian cancer. If someone’s going to make choices about my care, I’d rather it be a government board that has worries about scandals and getting re-elected rather than an uncaring capitalist machine that wants money above all else, including life.

 

[royal_archer]

No, they are just very expensive. They’re over $1000 a month here, less than $100 a month from India…

Many drugs are developed here in america and covered under patent rights so the drug companies can recoup their costs. Foriegn countries not subject to those laws can make counterfiet versions of the drugs for only the cost of manufacturing. Because of this the American manufacturers only hope of getting some revenue for the drugs is to sell them at just over manufacturing costs in those countries. As a result American citizens wind up bearing the brunt of the cost of developing those drugs. If Americans weren’t paying the full price, then many of these drugs would never have been invented in the first place.

Also, sorry, I don’t buy the death panel argument, don’t bother mentioning it. You can mention it until you’re blue in the face. I’ve already seen death panels, they’re called insurance companies. My mother’s dropped her coverage while she was in the middle of fighting ovarian cancer. If someone’s going to make choices about my care, I’d rather it be a government board that has worries about scandals and getting re-elected rather than an uncaring capitalist machine that wants money above all else, including life.

because of contract law currently on the books, insurance companies can not just drop people because they are sick. perhaps if the government spent more time supporting the enforcement of contract law this would not happen.

Back to your original point.

There is nothing wrong with moving to a country whose form of government is more to you liking as long as that country is not harming others. (for instance it would have been wrong to move to Germany during WWII.)

 

[1ke]

I don’t believe this is a moral issue at all. Your question is framed as whether it is wrong to “flee” the country. Well, “flee” is a little melodramatic, I mean you aren’t being chased by militia and forced into servitude. So, perhaps “emigrate” is a better term.

The Church fully supports individuals being able to emigrate freely to another country.

This is more of a legal question surrounding the other country’s policies and laws. It is not a matter of being moral or immoral. You can apply for visas and work permits and legal status in another country, but most countries control immigration quite tightly. So, it’s not morally wrong to leave the US and go to Canada, the UK, etc, for opportunity-- economic, medical, or for other reasons. It may be difficult for you to get permission from those countries to move there.

 

[royal_archer]

As for morality, It would be more moral to move to a country that is more suitable to your situation than to demand that this country change.

 

[pathia]

Many drugs are developed here in america and covered under patent rights so the drug companies can recoup their costs. Foriegn countries not subject to those laws can make counterfiet versions of the drugs for only the cost of manufacturing. Because of this the American manufacturers only hope of getting some revenue for the drugs is to sell them at just over manufacturing costs in those countries. As a result American citizens wind up bearing the brunt of the cost of developing those drugs. If Americans weren’t paying the full price, then many of these drugs would never have been invented in the first place

The drugs I am taking were not developed in the US, and they are not even made my american companies, I believe they are French. They charge what they can here, because they know insurance companies will pay for it, they have a plan for cheaper options for those that are poor, but I make too much for their plan to apply to me, so again, I am stuck in the middle.

 

[pathia]

As for morality, It would be more moral to move to a country that is more suitable to your situation than to demand that this country change.

But it is acceptable for a country to allow several million people to be completely cut out of their medical system by pricing it out of reach?

You do know when you self pay, rather than being cheaper, it is several times more expensive, right? A batch of liver tests I have to have every 6months, if I have insurance, the insurance company will pay about $200 for all of them, meanwhile if I pay out of pocket, it’s about $1000.

It’s complete madness.

 

[aspawloski4th]

As for morality, It would be more moral to move to a country that is more suitable to your situation than to demand that this country change.

Should all countries be suitable to her situation? Ideally all countries should be moral and treat all their citizens( with the exception of criminal) well. But criminals get far better treatment here than do people with her condition.

 

[royal_archer]

The drugs I am taking were not developed in the US, and they are not even made my american companies, I believe they are French. They charge what they can here, because they know insurance companies will pay for it, they have a plan for cheaper options for those that are poor, but I make too much for their plan to apply to me, so again, I am stuck in the middle.

Have you considered any o fthe insurance coops where you can tap into the group rates?

 

[pathia]

Have you considered any o fthe insurance coops where you can tap into the group rates?

They don’t exist anymore. Those that do, I cannot get coverage with them, I fail their questionnaires scores, I’m too sick.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Pathia. Do thopse posting here know your condition? While I do, while I am not big into digging in one’s person al life. It might be a good idea for the sake of giving a complete illistration of whats going to to share it in this thread. If peple poo poo you on account of it they can blow it out of you know where as far as I’m concerned. You do have friends here as well as decent people who really do care.

 

[royal_archer]

But it is acceptable for a country to allow several million people to be completely cut out of their medical system by pricing it out of reach?

You do know when you self pay, rather than being cheaper, it is several times more expensive, right? A batch of liver tests I have to have every 6months, if I have insurance, the insurance company will pay about $200 for all of them, meanwhile if I pay out of pocket, it’s about $1000.

It’s complete madness.

No one is completely cut out of the medical system. Yes some services are more expensive and exceed what others perceive as their value. unfortunately the government is making it harder and harder for insurers to provide more basic coverage at reduced costs. The government is forcing companies to cover more and more conditions that just drives up the cost for everyone.

As for costs I keep wondering why it costs more for humans to get treated than it does for animals. Maybe if there were less liability, doctors could provide services cheaper.

One of the deceptive issues with medicare is that they under pay for many services and force the providers to recoup the costs elswhere such as by over charging individuals who pay for themselves.

 

[pathia]

As for costs I keep wondering why it costs more for humans to get treated than it does for animals. Maybe if there were less liability, doctors could provide services cheaper.

My conditions don’t exist in animals, or they are simply euthanized at birth. It’s never an issue.

 

[royal_archer]

Should all countries be suitable to her situation? Ideally all countries should be moral and treat all their citizens( with the exception of criminal) well. But criminals get far better treatment here than do people with her condition.

Maybe we treat criminals to well.

There are many countries with socialized health care why should we destroy the health care system in America that many people prefer?

 

[royal_archer]

They don’t exist anymore. Those that do, I cannot get coverage with them, I fail their questionnaires scores, I’m too sick.

Seems like there is a market for an insurance program that focusses on getting group rates instead of paying bills. Such a group may be able to help you out. Until such a group exists:

If there is a place you can go that is more suitable for your needs, then by all means move their.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Maybe we treat criminals to well.

There are many countries with socialized health care why should we destroy the health care system in America that many people prefer?

Becuase it’s a total unequivicle failure. No one should loose their retirement or home or even their car for that matter just because they got sick. But it happens every day. If one person looses their home because they got sick it’s a failure.

 

[royal_archer]

Becuase it’s a total unequivicle failure. No one should loose their retirement or home or even their car for that matter just because they got sick. But it happens every day. If one person looses their home because they got sick it’s a failure.

So people should be able to not contribute to the system and then when they get sick they should expect the system that they did not contribute to has to bail them out?