Is 64:6 is the verse he was referring to, ftr. Perhaps some NT references would be good. From my understanding of the writings of St. Paul, our good works are good to the extent they are done to give glory to God. So the answer is, as it so often is, yes and no. Completely dependent upon motive, IMHO. If they were all as filthy rags then why would he have said that we must do those good works put before us by God to do?I heard a non-Catholic make a remarkabout filty rags the other day.I questioned him later and told him he should read all of Isiah 63-65 for the full context of filthy rags.He said our good deeds are STILL as filthy rags today.Are they?
I’m curious if this person thinks good deeds shouldn’t be done.I heard a non-Catholic make a remarkabout filty rags the other day.I questioned him later and told him he should read all of Isiah 63-65 for the full context of filthy rags.He said our good deeds are STILL as filthy rags today.Are they?
I think that the point here is that without Christ, any and all works would be filthy rags. Also too, if you study those words using the original Hebrew, they resemble what one would consider menstration rags. That’s beyond filthy really.I heard a non-Catholic make a remarkabout filty rags the other day.I questioned him later and told him he should read all of Isiah 63-65 for the full context of filthy rags.He said our good deeds are STILL as filthy rags today.Are they?
Works are the result of faith, not the payment for Salvation.Luk 17:7 But who is there of you, having a servant plowing or keeping sheep, that will say unto him, when he is come in from the field, Come straightway and sit down to meat;
Luk 17:8 and will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
Luk 17:9 Doth he thank the servant because he did the things that were commanded?
In the sense that our works can never cause God to be indebted to us to save us our works are filthy rags. Just as faith alone cannot save us, works alone will not save either. Any works we do as the passage above tells us are the duty we owe to God without expectation of a reward.
Yes! Faith without works is dead. James 2:20.Must one have works that accompany their faith? That ends up being the crux of the matter.
Does anyone know the name of the “works alone” heresy?Just as faith alone cannot save us, works alone will not save either.
Pelagianism.Does anyone know the name of the “works alone” heresy?
Thanks.Pelagianism.
I don’t get on it all that often, no.Thanks.
On a totally different subject, are you at all familiar with the WELS website?
Alright. So, if works are required (otherwise there is no living faith), is there something within those works that aids in salvation?Yes! Faith without works is dead. James 2:20.
I believe that we must have works but they don’t merit increase in grace or eternal life, contrary to what the Council of Trent said.Must one have works that accompany their faith? That ends up being the crux of the matter.
history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/trentall.htmlCANON XXXII.-If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life,-if so be, however, that he depart in grace,-and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema.
ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom45.vi.iii.vii.htmlBut we deny that the dispute here is concerning the mode of obtaining righteousness. We, indeed, allow that good works are required for righteousness; we only take away from them the power of conferring righteousness, because they cannot stand before the tribunal of God.
(The Enchiridion, Chapter 121)Thus the end of every commandment is charity, that is, every commandment has love for its aim. But whatever is done either through fear of punishment or from some other carnal motive, and has not for its principle that love which the Spirit of God sheds abroad in the heart, is not done as it ought to be done, however it may appear to men. For this love embraces both the love of God and the love of our neighbor, and “on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets,” we may add the Gospel and the apostles.
And for this reason Isaiah can say all our righteous is filthy rags because they are not perfect. However, God accepts our works, even though imperfect, through the righteousness of Jesus.A Psalm of David. Hear my prayer, O LORD, Give ear to my supplications! Answer me in Your faithfulness, in Your righteousness! And do not enter into judgment with Your servant, For in Your sight no man living is righteous.
(Psa 143:1-2 NASB)
But isn’t that verse from Psalms already contradicted by Scripture? Does the Bible not describe men as being rightous? Or their works as being such?I believe that we must have works but they don’t merit increase in grace or eternal life, contrary to what the Council of Trent said.
history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/trentall.html
Meriting grace is basically an oxymoron. I would agree with John Calvin from his commentary on the Epistle of James.
ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom45.vi.iii.vii.html
Every man already owes God all the works as indicated by the quote from Luke 17:7-9 as quoted from an earlier post.
Our works cannot stand before God because they remain imperfect and God requires perfection. If our works have any motive other than love of God and love of our neighbor, they are tainted. As Augustine wrote:
(The Enchiridion, Chapter 121)
newadvent.org/fathers/1302.htm
As a result the Psalmist can say:
And for this reason Isaiah can say all our righteous is filthy rags because they are not perfect. However, God accepts our works, even though imperfect, through the righteousness of Jesus.
I would again quote from Augustine. He seems to refer to a sort of relative righteousness which is short of the perfect righteousness that will come later.But isn’t that verse from Psalms already contradicted by Scripture? Does the Bible not describe men as being rightous? Or their works as being such?
Further, if our works are done for the Glory of God, with all charity, through Jesus, how can they be despicable in the eyes of God?
(On the Grace of Christ and on Original Sin, Chapter 53)Now, so far as I can see, this statement was made in accordance with a certain standard of conduct, which is among men held to be worthy of approval and praise, and which no human being could justly call in question for the purpose of laying accusation or censure. Such a standard Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth are said to have maintained in the sight of God, for no other reason than that they, by walking therein, never deceived people by any dissimulation; but as they in their sincerity appeared to men, so were they known in the sight of God. The statement, however, was not made with any reference to that perfect state of righteousness in which we shall one day live truly and absolutely in a condition of spotless purity.
Therefore the first commandment about righteousness, which bids us love the Lord with all our heart, and soul, and mind (the next to which is, that we love our neighbour as ourselves), we shall completely fulfil in that life when we shall see face to face. But even now this commandment is enjoined upon us, that we may be reminded what we ought by faith to require, and what we should in our hope look forward to, and, “forgetting the things which are behind, reach forth to the things which are before.” And thus, as it appears to me, that man has made a far advance, even in the present life, in the righteousness which is to be perfected hereafter, who has discovered by this very advance how very far removed he is from the completion of righteousness.
(On the Spirit and the Letter, Chapters 64-65)Forasmuch, however, as an inferior righteousness may be said to be competent to this life, whereby the just man lives by faith, although absent from the Lord, and, therefore, walking by faith and not yet by sight,—it may be without absurdity said, no doubt, in respect of it, that it is free from sin; for it ought not to be attributed to it as a fault, that it is not as yet sufficient for so great a love to God as is due to the final, complete, and perfect condition thereof….And do they prove this to be wrong which is written, “In Thy sight shall no man living be justified?” and this: “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us?” and, “There is no man that sinneth not;” and again, “There is not on the earth a righteous man, who doeth good and sinneth not” (for both these statements are expressed in a general future sense,—“sinneth not,” “will not sin,”—not in the past time, “has not sinned”)?—and all other places of this purport contained in the Holy Scripture? Since, however, these passages cannot possibly be false, it plainly follows, to my mind, that whatever be the quality or extent of the righteousness which we may definitely ascribe to the present life, there is not a man living in it who is absolutely free from all sin; and that it is necessary for every one to give, that it may be given to him; and to forgive, that it may be forgiven him; and whatever righteousness he has, not to presume that he has it of himself, but from the grace of God, who justifies him, and still to go on hungering and thirsting for righteousness from Him who is the living bread, and with whom is the fountain of life; who works in His saints, whilst labouring amidst temptation in this life, their justification in such manner that He may still have somewhat to impart to them liberally when they ask, and something mercifully to forgive them when they confess.