Final Inquiry Question:

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Wesley7 said:
So, you are saying Catholics are truly Christians? . .Are you sure . .

For example, you might have a Jesuit priest who is ‘Catholic’ but not Christian.
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Let’s cut to the chase here. I am a Catholic, do you doubt that I am truly a Christian?

You see, I view your question as ‘silly’, possibly ‘antagonistic’, or one of ‘ignorance’. I’m not really sure of your motive, but it is clear you avoid a direct question. Repeating your question does not answer the question asked of you, especially since you do not explain your position when starting such a discussion.

I don’t care if one is Orthodox or Roman Catholic, they both profess Jesus to be the Son of God. They are both truly Christian, even if one proved one of them to be ‘wrong’ it doesn’t change that fact. You can name any Protestant ‘denomination’, as long as they profess Jesus to be the Son of God and follow His commandments, they are Christians. Being misdirected, or ill informed, does not exclude them as believers. We all go through a spiritual growth process, according to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. So we are where He leads us to be currently. As we come to know Him better, things can change in reference to which Church we attend.

Now, please explain why you asked that question, especially on a Catholic forum?
 
Wesley7 said:
I’m studying the meaning and usage of the word ‘Catholic’ . . .
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Still has appearances of avoiding the question asked of you.

How does studying the usage of the word ‘Catholic’ bring you to ask if Catholics are truly Christian?

Failing to address your opinion in your original post and avoiding this direct question has more than appearances of one attempting to denounce ‘Catholics’ for some reason, while maintaining a particular agenda. First you said you were studying the ‘Great Schism’, now you say you’re studying the ‘meaning and usage of the word Catholic’, which is it? Do you not realize there are multiple threads on these subjects on these forums? :rolleyes:
 
Wesley7 said:
So, you are saying Catholics are truly Christians? . .Are you sure . .

For example, you might have a Jesuit priest who is ‘Catholic’ but not Christian.
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This would be impossible - if he is a good Catholic, then he is definitely a baptized person who is a follower of Jesus Christ.

If he is a bad Catholic, then he is, at the same time, a bad Christian, but for as long as he is a baptized person, he is both Catholic and Christian.
 
Wesley7 said:
Just wondering. :tiphat:
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You left out a couple of points when you quoted my post. See below and note my emphasis:
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Still has appearances of avoiding the question asked of you.

How does studying the usage of the word ‘Catholic’ bring you to ask if Catholics are truly Christian?

Failing to address your opinion in your original post and avoiding this direct question has more than appearances of one attempting to denounce ‘Catholics’ for some reason, while maintaining a particular agenda. First you said you were studying the ‘Great Schism’, now you say you’re studying the ‘meaning and usage of the word Catholic’, which is it? Do you not realize there are multiple threads on these subjects on these forums? :rolleyes:
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First you said you were studying the ‘Great Schism’. Then I found a thread you started entitled, ‘Question about the Great Schism’. That was preceded by a thread you started entitled, ‘Was the ancient Catholic Church Orthodox before the Great Schism?’

Is this why you changed your study to ‘meaning and usage of the word Catholic?’

To be perfectly honest, it seems you have an agenda you fail to openly discuss under the guise of ‘are Catholics truly Christian?’ Avoiding the direct questions asked of you, and changing your reason for asking, is more than suspect and totally lacks any honesty.

I answered your question directly and explained how I viewed ‘Christians’, yet you’ve avoided any direct question asked of you. That speaks volumes in my opinion.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
What is the reason you question, or doubt, that Catholics are truly Christians?
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For instance, John the Baptist was the first Christian priest but Catholicism wasn’t founded until many years later.

Are you saying John the Baptist was Catholic? . .
 
Wesley7 said:
Are Catholics truly Christians? If so will an experienced Catholic explain why? Thanks.
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Wes, like so many things the answer depends on your definition. Usually when I see this question, it’s asked by an Evangelical Protestant, who has defined “Christian” to mean and “Evangelical Protestant.” With that definition, a Catholic, an Orthodox - maybe even an Anglican - are NOT Christian because the question presupposes something they are not. It’s definitional.

With your reference to The Great Schism, I am guessing (since you won’t be clear) you are defining “Christian” with “Eastern Orthodox.” Again, it’s definitional. Catholicism is not Eastern Orthodoxy.

However, if you are looking for a generalized answer the answer is of course Catholics are Christian at least as the term is generally used. Beyond that vague generalization, you need to state exactly what you mean. For example, must one be Baptized? How Baptized? Must one believe in the divinity of Christ? The historical existence of Christ? Must one believe in the Trinity? Must one accept Chalcedon? Must one believe in monotheism? Sola Scriptura? Sola Fides? All sorts of issues. If pointing out those doctrinal divisions is what you are getting at, so what? We all know about them.

I think it is pretty safe to say most people define a Christian as someone who has been Baptized in some fashion. Not all will accept that definition, but it’s useful if not always applicable.

In any event, your question is pretty silly.
 
Wesley7 said:
For instance, John the Baptist was the first Christian priest but Catholicism wasn’t founded until many years later.

Are you saying John the Baptist was Catholic? . .
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Weird, unusual and hardly accepted by much of anyone in mainstream Christianity. So, as I indicated above - definition is key here.
 
Wesley7 said:
For instance, John the Baptist was the first Christian priest but Catholicism wasn’t founded until many years later.

Are you saying John the Baptist was Catholic? . .
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Catholic is an adjective, that became a noun when the early Church assumed the name for the Church. Catholic and Christian are synonymous.

Even though John the Baptist foretold the coming of the Messiah, the Church had not yet been built. Christ announced building His Church at Caesarea Philippi, which was long after John the Baptist had been beheaded.

For your ‘studies’…
Act 9:31 αιG3588 THE μενG3303 INDEED ουνG3767 THEN εκκλησιαιG1577 ASSEMBLIES καθG2596 THROUGHOUT οληςG3650 WHOLE τηςG3588 THE ιουδαιαςG2449 OF JUDEA καιG2532 AND γαλιλαιαςG1056 GALILEE καιG2532 AND σαμαρειαςG4540 SAMARIA ειχονG2192 [G5707] HAD ειρηνηνG1515 PEACE, οικοδομουμεναιG3618 [G5746] BEING BUILT UP καιG2532 AND πορευομεναιG4198 [G5740] GOING ON τωG3588 IN THE φοβωG5401 FEAR τουG3588 OF THE κυριουG2962 LORD, καιG2532 AND τηG3588 IN THE παρακλησειG3874 COMFORT τουG3588 OF THE αγιουG40 HOLY πνευματοςG4151 SPIRIT επληθυνοντοG4129 [G5712] WERE INCREASED.
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G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see’-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
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G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.
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G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol’-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.
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Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective (katholikos), meaning “universal”.
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thefreedictionary.com/catholic
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Catholic
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[Middle English catholik, universally accepted, from Old French catholique, from Latin catholicus, universal, from Greek katholikos, from katholou, in general : kat-, kata-, down, along, according to; see cata- + holou (from neuter genitive of holos, whole; see sol- in Indo-European roots).]
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St. Ignatius
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Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop
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See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
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Wesley7 said:
For instance, John the Baptist was the first Christian priest but Catholicism wasn’t founded until many years later.

Are you saying John the Baptist was Catholic? . .
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Noted, once again you avoided answering the direct question and responded with yet another question. :rolleyes:
 
Wesley7 said:
For instance, John the Baptist was the first Christian priest but Catholicism wasn’t founded until many years later.

Are you saying John the Baptist was Catholic? . .
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John the Baptist was never a Christian, let alone a Christian priest. He died before Christ established the Church - although it wasn’t “many years” later that Christ established the Catholic Church - it was within three years of his death.

The Catholic Church came into being when Christ died on the Cross, and it came to birth at Pentecost, about seven weeks later.
 
jmcrae said:
John the Baptist was never a Christian, let alone a Christian priest. He died before Christ established the Church - although it wasn’t “many years” later that Christ established the Catholic Church - it was within three years of his death.

The Catholic Church came into being when Christ died on the Cross, and it came to birth at Pentecost, about seven weeks later.
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Wesle7 did you have a pentecost at your chrismation this past Pascha?

peace
 
Wesley7 said:
Umm . . . It doesn’t matter how many questions you ask.
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So, you have no intention of answering any questions? That’s a sure sign of having an agenda you must stick to, and so far that agenda has an ‘anti-Catholic’ appearance.

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t you start a thread discussing your conversion to the Catholic Church, or Orthodox, stating the Catholic Church was superior in it’s teachings? What brought on the change?
 
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