W
Wesley7
Guest
Ok, I talked to my mom and she informed me that Catholics are Christians.
- Status
A
Alexander_Roman
Guest
And both Catholics and Orthodox use the term “Catholic” in their self-description.
There was a Russian holy man who prayed 12,000 Jesus Prayers every day and was very attuned to Catholic-Orthodox relations.
He said the only real difference between the two Churches lay in one letter. In Russian, a Roman Catholic is a “KaTolyk” and an Orthodox Christian is a “KaFolyk.”
Ultimately, though, it is Christ Himself Who will one day tell us if we were “Christian” or not.
Alex
There was a Russian holy man who prayed 12,000 Jesus Prayers every day and was very attuned to Catholic-Orthodox relations.
He said the only real difference between the two Churches lay in one letter. In Russian, a Roman Catholic is a “KaTolyk” and an Orthodox Christian is a “KaFolyk.”
Ultimately, though, it is Christ Himself Who will one day tell us if we were “Christian” or not.
Alex
J
jmcrae
Guest
W
Wesley7
Guest
No.
Are you a child?
J
Jack_Bauer
Guest
Written about 107 A.D. Ignatius of Antioch wrote to the Semernyans about Church matters. The most significant thing said was not the very clear statement that follows (posted earlier without details):
During my journey, studying Orthodoxy and Catholicism, I found all of it very interesting. Arguing over whether the Church was Catholic or Orthodox is futile, because they were one. The Great Schism has brought up many questions to me in my journey, particularly because of my own family Christian historical roots in fundamentalism and Catholic Christianity. The main points that I came to understand requires humility, much humility. One must submit themselves to the Church authority, whether Catholic or Orthodox.
Most of the differences fall on theological differences, understanding. The main key point is not the Nicene Creed issue. That’s really a red herring issue to me. The authority issue, mainly Papal authority. If you study Orthodoxy you’ll see a very similar hierarchical structure. The early Church debates on the matter of central authority are interesting. In fact, I see very clearly that Orthodoxy Christians love to say Catholics have more in common with Protestants than themselves. This is a load of hogwash. Most Christian faiths have much more in common than they like to admit.
However, that said, I’ve found that the position Orthodox holds on papal authority is more similar to that of Protestants, which is very odd to say the least. The ancient church fathers have said that the bishop of Rome is the first of many. First, not second, third or fourth. First.
The bishop of Rome is the one that all bishops went to to settle disputes. He was in a way, like King Solomon. When you read the bible, notice Matthew 23. Read through it thoroughly several times. It’s very difficult to dismiss something so clearly written. Isaiah 22 also talks about “the keys” on another similar topic when Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Upon the rock… do your homework on this. It should startle you a bit and purge some of those doubts about the hierarchical nature of the religious community from the beginning, particularly Moses onward…
Just some more things to consider in your quest for information. There is so much more.
What’s most interesting about this document was the fact that he says to “do nothing without the bishop.” The bishop has the authority. Further, he mentions that those who do not believe in the body and blood of Christ in the bread and wine are heretics.
During my journey, studying Orthodoxy and Catholicism, I found all of it very interesting. Arguing over whether the Church was Catholic or Orthodox is futile, because they were one. The Great Schism has brought up many questions to me in my journey, particularly because of my own family Christian historical roots in fundamentalism and Catholic Christianity. The main points that I came to understand requires humility, much humility. One must submit themselves to the Church authority, whether Catholic or Orthodox.
Most of the differences fall on theological differences, understanding. The main key point is not the Nicene Creed issue. That’s really a red herring issue to me. The authority issue, mainly Papal authority. If you study Orthodoxy you’ll see a very similar hierarchical structure. The early Church debates on the matter of central authority are interesting. In fact, I see very clearly that Orthodoxy Christians love to say Catholics have more in common with Protestants than themselves. This is a load of hogwash. Most Christian faiths have much more in common than they like to admit.
However, that said, I’ve found that the position Orthodox holds on papal authority is more similar to that of Protestants, which is very odd to say the least. The ancient church fathers have said that the bishop of Rome is the first of many. First, not second, third or fourth. First.
The bishop of Rome is the one that all bishops went to to settle disputes. He was in a way, like King Solomon. When you read the bible, notice Matthew 23. Read through it thoroughly several times. It’s very difficult to dismiss something so clearly written. Isaiah 22 also talks about “the keys” on another similar topic when Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Upon the rock… do your homework on this. It should startle you a bit and purge some of those doubts about the hierarchical nature of the religious community from the beginning, particularly Moses onward…
Just some more things to consider in your quest for information. There is so much more.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Is your mother a recognized authority on world religions?
W
Wesley7
Guest
She is probably the epitome of the Lutheran/Protestant opinion.Is your mother a recognized authority on world religions?
W
Wesley7
Guest
She probably the epitome of the Lutheran/Protestant opinion.Is your mother a recognized authority on world religions?
J
Jack_Bauer
Guest
You have a good Anglican/Methodist name there pardner.
J
Jack_Bauer
Guest
Growing up Lutheran, how could you even ask this sort of thing. Personally it’s quite offensive and I firmly believe you already knew the answer to your own trolling question.
W
Wesley7
Guest
Mmm . . a long time ago I used to post on Flame & Troll forums but I don’t do that anymore.
J
Jack_Bauer
Guest
So why the S A questions and probing pokes in the side? Kind of hateful, don’t you think? i was a fundamentalist and knew better than that. In fact, we used to believe you were gong to hell in a hand basket. So, why the hate talk then? Lutherans don’t believe in such haug wash.
W
Wesley7
Guest
I’m studying the meaning and usage of the word ‘Catholic’.
A
Addai
Guest
Are you doing that for some kind of Catechism, Bible study or Sunday school class?
PS - I thought your Theotokos signature was nice. Too bad you edited it out.
P
Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Act 9:31 αιG3588 THE μενG3303 INDEED ουνG3767 THEN εκκλησιαιG1577 ASSEMBLIES καθG2596 THROUGHOUT οληςG3650 WHOLE τηςG3588 THE ιουδαιαςG2449 OF JUDEA καιG2532 AND γαλιλαιαςG1056 GALILEE καιG2532 AND σαμαρειαςG4540 SAMARIA ειχονG2192 [G5707] HAD ειρηνηνG1515 PEACE, οικοδομουμεναιG3618 [G5746] BEING BUILT UP καιG2532 AND πορευομεναιG4198 [G5740] GOING ON τωG3588 IN THE φοβωG5401 FEAR τουG3588 OF THE κυριουG2962 LORD, καιG2532 AND τηG3588 IN THE παρακλησειG3874 COMFORT τουG3588 OF THE αγιουG40 HOLY πνευματοςG4151 SPIRIT επληθυνοντοG4129 [G5712] WERE INCREASED.
G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see’-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.
G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol’-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.
Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective (katholikos), meaning “universal”.
thefreedictionary.com/catholic
Catholic
[Middle English catholik, universally accepted, from Old French catholique, from Latin catholicus, universal, from Greek katholikos, from katholou, in general : kat-, kata-, down, along, according to; see cata- + holou (from neuter genitive of holos, whole; see sol- in Indo-European roots).]
books.google.com/books?id=Jr0WAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA232&lpg=PA232&dq=kata+holos&source=bl&ots=jxfl2h_JjJ&sig=4cQ8soTtaZObBD7aURdWWUW2Tgo&hl=en&ei=lKKTTb-CL5GDtgeMgLVv&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=kata%20holos&f=false
The model etymology
newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm
W
Wesley7
Guest
Private Study.
W
Wesley7
Guest
Thanks for the info! I also looked it up in the index of glossary terms in the Latin Catechism.
J
Jack_Bauer
Guest
Oh.
Sorry then. The term “catholic” seems to be used in various ways. However, terms like “Christian”, seem to be used more universally - pun intended. What’s interesting about the word “catholic” is that the first historical recording of it known was also first used in Antioch, like “Christians”. The name itself is not so important to me. I love the Orthodox Church, however, I’m still not convinced of their primacy - pun also intended. My personal perspective on this topic is that the only authorized Churches that have any valid stake to claim on being the original and authentic true Church of Christ is both, and both together. Separated, they seem to have grown awkwardly apart. United they have valid claim. Separated, they seem odd. But I choose to accept the Catholic teachings of the Church and if the choice were up to me, I’d transfer to the Eastern Catholic Church rite. Which one, I’m not quite sure yet. However, that’s not going to happen as long as my wife is still alive.I’d love to be Orthodox, but then I’d lack the fullness of the original faith established by Christ. Now that I realize I ignored your faith, I apologize, but that’s what I believe. I considered many different Liturgical style worshiping churches. But only those that can trace their roots back to the big bang. Okay, just kidding on that one. I mean back to Christ - biblical times.
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Brothers & Sisters:Maybe I’m missing something but I have no idea what this thread has to do with “Eastern Catholicism” nor why it was posted in this forum.
Maybe we can suggest that the original question should have gone to the “Apologetics” Forum. This type of question requires the type of response it would have received from that Forum. At the same time, I don’t think Eastern Catholicism is the appropriate Forum to debate about the ongoing conflict between Eastern Orthodoxy & Western Catholicism.
You might want to “Unilaterally Move” this discussion to that Forum while asking the Mods to shut this one down and asking them to redirect those who come here over to the new site… At the same time, you could ask the Mods to close this particular thread down at this site…
You’re only the 250th poster to do this, so that’s pretty much the standard procedure.
In Christ, Michael
- Status