Final Jewish Conversion: a Hypothesis

[spauline]

I think the mystery of this may be really quite simple: the way of the saint in Catholic spirituality is an intrinsicly necessary spiritual process that must occur in any primary Revelatory and Salvific Covenant. In other words, the three stages of the saint:

I. The Purgative
II. The Illuminative
III. The Unitive

are just a micro-cosmic model of what, spiritually, the respective People of God must go through in the BOTH the Old and New Covenants.

In other words, the proto-type Christological Declaration of the apocalyptic mysteries is NOT Augustine’s “Wheat and Tare parable”, but rather, Christ’s statement: “Amen, amen, I say to you, it will all be fulfilled!” That is, the solution to the great mysteries may be in fact simply to recognize that three great spiritual ages that the Jews passed through are in fact a foreshadowing of what the Gentiles will go through with the New Covenant, and only in the third stage of the Gentiles’ journey will the eyes of the Jews be opened, that is, to recognize that everything that they went through, in a major spiritual way, was actually traversed in the New Covenant by the Gentiles.

I’ll explain later, when I get a chance, but consider the Gospel three’s. Jesus speaks to Mary Magdelene at the Resurrection three times, and only in the third time does she recognize him. Joseph and Mary spend three days and nights looking for Jesus, and only in the third do they finally find him. And what do they say? “Jesus, we have been looking for you in sorrow these three days. Why have you done this to us?” And Jesus responded, “Did you not know that I must be about my Father’s Business.”

That is, for three ages the Jews will search for the Messiah, and only in the third time do they find Him. Hence, they will say to Jesus (in the great apostasy of the end), “For three great ages of Gentile/Catholic history, we have been searching for you. How could you do this to us?” And Jesus will respond, “Well, duh? what did you think? Did you think that the God who brought out of Egypt and betrothed you as His People would take a vacation for several thousand years? Did you not know that I must be about my Father’s business? [Namely, Redeeming the Gentiles for three great ages, just as I prefiguritavely walked with *you for three great ages]?”

 

[trth_skr]

Spauline:

But what about all the Jews in between age 1 and age 3?

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[spauline]

Spauline:

But what about all the Jews in between age 1 and age 3?

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

Well, come on, Mark. They can be saved by Christ who gives them grace, they are just not aware of it. Look, I’ve read your other threads, and I agree that the wording of the USCCB is rather dangerous.

Admitedly, what has always saved someone is the grace of God, whether they lived before or after Christ, whether Jew or Gentile. So, I agree, the USCCB (who are mostly a bunch of liberal SOB"s anyway), is wording this in a dangerous fashion. I mean, you can’t take it completely literally, for it would then more or less be at odds with the Gospel. For has St. Paul argued in vain? One man is cirumcised, the other is not. What matters in the end is whether the man’s “heart” is circumsized. But I guess there’s a question of what the USCCB meant to say? I don’t know, I 've heard that there was liberal influence in Vat II so that things became worded by liberal influence so as to leave open the possibility of erroneous interpretations.

But this is not my area of expertise. Whether or not there was liberal influence IN Vat II, there certainly has been a lot of liberal influence AFTER Vat II (that is, not in the Magisterium, but in the “Catholic” Universities, etc.), and I’m sure the more orthodox of Catholics would agree with me!

 

[trth_skr]

Well, come on, Mark. They can be saved by Christ who gives them grace, they are just not aware of it. Look, I’ve read your other threads, and I agree that the wording of the USCCB is rather dangerous.

Admitedly, what has always saved someone is the grace of God, whether they lived before or after Christ, whether Jew or Gentile. So, I agree, the USCCB (who are mostly a bunch of liberal SOB"s anyway), is wording this in a dangerous fashion. I mean, you can’t take it completely literally, for it would then more or less be at odds with the Gospel. For has St. Paul argued in vain? One man is cirumcised, the other is not. What matters in the end is whether the man’s “heart” is circumsized. But I guess there’s a question of what the USCCB meant to say? I don’t know, I 've heard that there was liberal influence in Vat II so that things became worded by liberal influence so as to leave open the possibility of erroneous interpretations.

But this is not my area of expertise. Whether or not there was liberal influence IN Vat II, there certainly has been a lot of liberal influence AFTER Vat II (that is, not in the Magisterium, but in the “Catholic” Universities, etc.), and I’m sure the more orthodox of Catholics would agree with me!

Spauline:

I wasn’t baiting you, it was a serious question; though I do appreciate your thoughts on the USCCB statement.

I guess even in the Old Covenant the number actually saved may have been small, and I imagine more were saved in the #2 age (small percentage, but large numbers) in any case. It sounds like in the #3 age many Jews (and perhaps most gentiles in this scheme) will be saved?

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[spauline]

Spauline:

I wasn’t baiting you, it was a serious question; though I do appreciate your thoughts on the USCCB statement.

I guess even in the Old Covenant the number actually saved may have been small, and I imagine more were saved in the #2 age (small percentage, but large numbers) in any case. It sounds like in the #3 age many Jews (and perhaps most gentiles in this scheme) will be saved?

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

Well I’d have to delineate the ages:

The Covenant is made (the tongues divided at Babel, God calls ONE nation from many, Abraham | the tongues are reunited at Pentecost, calling ALL nations into ONE Universal Kingdom),

Then begins the Purgation (Egypt, pagan Rome), and they are delivered from bondage (The Exodus to Israel, Christianity’s triumph over paganism in Catholic Christendom)

Then there is the great Illuminative Phase (the prophets elaborate on the Law, the Magesterium develops the Deposit of Faith), the illumination is progressively resisted and gives way to the dark night of the soul (the general apostate condition of the Jews just prior to the Exile, the associated Minor Apostasy of today).’

But the chastisement comes and vindicates the Revelation developed in the Illuminative phase (the Exile shocks the Jews into reversion, as will the Minor Chastisement the Gentiles), and the Covenants are restored (after the Exile, the Jews are restored to the Holy Land, after the Minor Chastisement, Christians are reunited and Catholicism is restored throughout most of the world), and this great vindication of the Illumination is the Unitive Phase.

Finally, at the conclusion of the Unitive ,the saint is martyred and passes into the “next age”, heaven. (at the end of the Jewish restoration, they likewise pass through the martyrdom of the OT Antichrist, Antiochus, after which a new age dawns, the FIRST Coming of Christ, just as the Gentiles will fall away a second and final time at the end of the age of peace in the Great Apostasy and NT Antichrist, in which the Church truly passes through the ultimate martyrdom [persecution], which, of course, is followed by the SECOND Coming of Christ).

So then, to get to the point, the MOST number of creatures are obviously saved in the Unitive Phase of the New Covenant, since the near totality of the Gentiles embrace (or reembrace) the Gospel with the greatest vigor, i.e., the fullness of the Gentiles.