Final Judgment of Hell

[Fidei]

Rev. 20:13-14 “13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.”

Doesnt the CC teach that there is no more hope for the dead in hell? then why does this verse say the dead will be judged? (this mean ALL dead)
I understand Hades is a “grave” while hell itself is the fiery torment spoken of in Mark 9:47-48

What does this Hades got to do with judgment? is Hades a similar punishment as hell or are they entirely different? why would the dead in Hades rise to be judged? and what about hell?
and also back to my main question-- how can all dead be judged when the CC teaches that punishment in hell is eternal?

 

[kepha1]

Rev. 20:13-14 “13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.”

Doesnt the CC teach that there is no more hope for the dead in hell? then why does this verse say the dead will be judged? (this mean ALL dead)
I understand Hades is a “grave” while hell itself is the fiery torment spoken of in Mark 9:47-48

What does this Hades got to do with judgment? is Hades a similar punishment as hell or are they entirely different? why would the dead in Hades rise to be judged? and what about hell?
and also back to my main question-- how can all dead be judged when the CC teaches that punishment in hell is eternal?

There is a particular judgement (when we die) and a general judgement (when everything ends). But there is no time in the afterlife, and Revelation doesn’t always spell everything out in linear or time/space terms.

Good article here: saint-mike.org/apologetics/qa/answers/faith_spirituality/f0310210474.html

 

[GEddie]

What does this Hades got to do with judgment? is Hades a similar punishment as hell or are they entirely different? why would the dead in Hades rise to be judged? and what about hell?
and also back to my main question-- how can all dead be judged when the CC teaches that punishment in hell is eternal?

There is a particular judgement (when we die) and a general judgement (when everything ends). But there is no time in the afterlife, and Revelation doesn’t always spell everything out in linear or time/space terms.

That’s the ticket, AIUI. In death, you depart from time. So it isn’t a matter of someone dying, going to Hell, and at a later time, emerging from Hell to be judged. Their judgement happens when they suffer death. At that moment, those who have not found our LORD’s “narrow gate” will go to Hell, while those (may it be almost everybody!) who have known HIM will become resurrectional beings in Heaven.

And when the timeline runs out, everybody left alive will collide with eternity; and all face that judgement at once.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Fidei]

but the bible did give a time line! it mentions how the apocalypse would happen, what the world would be like by then and this is when Jesus will return to earth to commence the final judgment.

I understand when we die, we go to an immediate judgment, we either go to heaven, hell or purgatory, but this is not yet the final judgment, it will come by the end of time. God will intervene and send all people whether dead or alive to be judged in this “Final Judgment”.

what i don’t understand is how can those dead in hell be judged if their state is eternal? remember, the bible said “dead” this does not narrow down to the ones in purgatory in heaven, there are also dead in hell too!

 

[Fidelis]

When each of us dies, our souls are immediately judged by God. This is called the Particular Judgment. At this point we begin our eternal destiny. If we are going to hell, our souls go directly there. If we are deemed worthy of heaven, our souls will go directly to heaven, or if we are going to heaven but are in need of purification, we may go to Purgatory first for a while (everyone in Purgatory will eventually go to heaven). Whatever our fate, our souls will stay there (heaven or hell) until the end of time, at which time the Second Coming will occur.

At the Second Coming at the end of time, those Christians still alive and who are in a state of sanctifying grace will be taken to heaven (what some Protestants think of as of “the rapture”). Then will occur the General Judgment. At that time the souls of the living and the dead will be reunited with their bodies and brought together in God’s presence and judged before all. Those who have already been judged in the Particular Judgment will be brought from wherever their souls were – heaven, hell or Purgatory-- and have their judgment confirmed before all, so that both the justice and mercy of God will be manifest to all. No one will then have any doubt about the fairness of God’s judgement on those they thought would be in heaven but are not, or those they thought would not be in heaven but are.

After this, time and Purgatory will be no more and all will enter with their souls and bodies into their eternal destiny, either hell or heaven.

This is an extremely bare-bones sketch, so if you want to get the details, see the five articles linked below:

rosary-center.org/ll57n1.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n2.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n3.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n4.htm
rosary-center.org/ll49n6.htm

 

[Fidei]

Reading from the posts here, i understand it to be that if your soul is in hell, then it CANNOT BE JUDGED AGAIN? and that in the GENERAL JUDGEMENT, the souls already in hell will only be reunited with their body, but they will still end up in hell anyway?

 

[Fidelis]

Reading from the posts here, i understand it to be that if your soul is in hell, then it CANNOT BE JUDGED AGAIN? and that in the GENERAL JUDGEMENT, the souls already in hell will only be reunited with their body, but they will still end up in hell anyway?

The General Judgment is not a “Re-Judgment” but a public confirmation of an individual’s Particular Judgement that was made immediately after death, as I stated above.

 

[Fidei]

Can someone give me a simple answer that IF the CC believes that those dead in hell may be judged or not?

most comments here are mere chronology of the judgment. i just need an answer to this question.

Because i remember someone saying that according to the CC, the state of the dead in hell is eternal (no way of escaping) and yet the bible teaches that both living and the dead (both in heaven and hell) shall be judged based on Rev. 20:13-14.

i see two conflicting statements here! but i know the Holy Spirit will always guide me to the true church, but satan is tempting me, i need to clear this up.

 

[Fidelis]

Can someone give me a simple answer that IF the CC believes that those dead in hell may be judged or not?

**Simple answer: **The Church does not teach that the dead in hell are are judged; they will have their judgment confirmed at the Second Coming. It cannot be any simpler than that.

It’s no use asking for simplistic yes or no answers on this topic. If you really wish to educate yourself on this subject, I highly suggest you read the articles I provided, or other source of Church teaching.,

 

[GEddie]

Can someone give me a simple answer that IF the CC believes that those dead in hell may be judged or not?

most comments here are mere chronology of the judgment. i just need an answer to this question.

Because i remember someone saying that according to the CC, the state of the dead in hell is eternal (no way of escaping) and yet the bible teaches that both living and the dead (both in heaven and hell) shall be judged based on Rev. 20:13-14.

i see two conflicting statements here! but i know the Holy Spirit will always guide me to the true church, but satan is tempting me, i need to clear this up.

There is no time after death. You are judged once, and forever.
There seem to be 2 judgements because time goes on in the world, but if you have died, you are no longer a part of it. No one in eternity will be “rejudged.” Whatever status you have reached the instant after death, is forever (although some, belonging to Heaven, may have some psychological correction going, which we would call “Purgatory.”)

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Fidei]

Thanks for the answers.

So the judgment of hell lies on particular judgment, while those in the state of grace or needing in purification may be resurrected and be present in the general judgment

The damned souls will also be present but they will not be judged like the purified ones but only be reunited with their bodies to suffer more punishment on the lake of fire.

so what does this “Hades” mean? it says that “death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them” so who are these dead who are in Hades?

 

[Vile_Servant]

Thanks for the answers.

So the judgment of hell lies on particular judgment, while those in the state of grace or needing in purification may be resurrected and be present in the general judgment

The damned souls will also be present but they will not be judged like the purified ones but only be reunited with their bodies to suffer more punishment on the lake of fire.

so what does this “Hades” mean? it says that “death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them” so who are these dead who are in Hades?

All of us will be judged twice; once at the Particular Judgement, and once at the General Judgement. This includes all souls in heaven and hell.

All souls will be reunited with their bodies before the Last Judgement, to be rewarded, body and soul, according to their works.

 

[Fidei]

to Vile Servant: you said even the souls in hell may be judged in the general judgment, yet fidelis claims (accdg to the cc) that it doesnt. so which is which?

**Simple answer: **The Church does not teach that the dead in hell are are judged;

All of us will be judged twice; once at the Particular Judgement, and once at the General Judgement. This includes all souls in heaven and hell.

 

[Cristian_B]

God: Okay people! Get out of the Hades and out of the fire! Get out of your lava swimming pool. We have to judge you. I know you are already suffering in fire, but we just have to declare you ‘guilty’ and then you can go back. Or it can also be: Get out of Paradise! We have to declare you ‘innocent’. Then you can go back.

Does this sound reasonable to you? The Bible speaks of only one judgment and that is the one at the end of time. There is no sense in sending someone to a ‘temporal’ hell and then judge him. How do you know he’s guilty if he isn’t judged? Also, if he is already judged guilty immediately after death, why is there a need to judge him guilty a second time? I though you can do nothing to change your status after death. You are either saved or lost. Why would Got declare the lost ‘guilty’ twice? This double judgment theory crumbles. Because the lost cannot become saved after death, and also if they are judged lost immediately after death, why would they be judged and declared as lost a second time, since they can’t change their status of saved or lost? This makes no sense.

 

[Fidelis]

to Vile Servant: you said even the souls in hell may be judged in the general judgment, yet fidelis claims (accdg to the cc) that it doesnt. so which is which?

It isn’t what I or anyone else says: it is what the Scriptures say and what the Church teaches; From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**I. THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT **

1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.[592] The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul–a destiny which can be different for some and for others.[593]

**1022 **Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification [594] or immediately,[595] – or immediate and everlasting damnation.[596]

*At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.*597]

592 Cf. 2 Tim 1:9-10.
593 Cf. Lk 16:22; 23:43; Mt 16:26; 2 Cor 5:8; Phil 1:23; Heb 9:27; 12:23.
594 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274):ds 857-858; Council of Florence (1439):ds 1304- 1306; Council of Trent (1563):ds 1820.
595 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336):ds 1000-1001; John XXII, Ne super his (1334):ds 990.
596 Cf. Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336):ds 1002.
597 St. John of the Cross, Dichos 64.

**V. THE LAST JUDGMENT **

1038 The resurrection of all the dead, “of both the just and the unjust,”[623] will precede the Last Judgment. This will be “the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man’s] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.”[624] Then Christ will come “in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”[625]

1039 In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man’s relationship with God will be laid bare.[626] The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life:

*All that the wicked do is recorded, and they do not know. When “our God comes, he does not keep silence.”. . . he will turn towards those at his left hand: . . . “I placed my poor little ones on earth for you. I as their head was seated in heaven at the right hand of my Father - but on earth my members were suffering, my members on earth were in need. If you gave anything to my members, what you gave would reach their Head. Would that you had known that my little ones were in need when I placed them on earth for you and appointed them your stewards to bring your good works into my treasury. But you have placed nothing in their hands; therefore you have found nothing in my presence.”*627]

**1040 **The Last Judgment will come when Christ returns in glory. Only the Father knows the day and the hour; only he determines the moment of its coming. Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history. We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end. The Last Judgment will reveal that God’s justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God’s love is stronger than death.[628]

1041 The message of the Last Judgment calls men to conversion while God is still giving them “the acceptable time, . . . the day of salvation.”[629] It inspires a holy fear of God and commits them to the justice of the Kingdom of God. It proclaims the “blessed hope” of the Lord’s return, when he will come “to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed.”[630]

623 Acts 24:15.
624 Jn 5:28-29.
625 Mt 25:31,32,46.
626 Cf. Jn 12:49.
627 St. Augustine, Sermo 18, 4L 38,130-131; cf. Ps 50:3.
628 Cf. Song 8:6.
629 2 Cor 6:2.
630 Titus 2:13; 2 Thess 1:10.

 

[Fidelis]

The Bible speaks of only one judgment and that is the one at the end of time.

The Bible clearly speaks of two judgments. The first, immediately after death:

“It is appointed that men die once, and after this the judgment.” (Heb. 9:27)

And the second at the end of time:

I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead. **All the dead **were judged according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire. (This pool of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire. (Revelation 20:12-15)

There is no sense in sending someone to a ‘temporal’ hell and then judge him.

Sure it does. Where else are the wicked going to be between the time they die and the end of time when “all the dead” (see above) are going to be judged?

How do you know he’s guilty if he isn’t judged?

As was stated numerous times above, he has been judged–right after death.

Also, if he is already judged guilty immediately after death, why is there a need to judge him guilty a second time?

Answered in a previous post.

I thought you can do nothing to change your status after death. You are either saved or lost.

No change in status occurs. Those already dead who are destined for hell wind up in hell, and those destined for heaven wind up in heaven.

Why would Got declare the lost ‘guilty’ twice? This double judgment theory crumbles. Because the lost cannot become saved after death, and also if they are judged lost immediately after death, why would they be judged and declared as lost a second time, since they can’t change their status of saved or lost? This makes no sense.

Again, answered in a previous post.

Perhaps you should read the whole thread and address the answers already given, including the article references provided. You will be a lot more informed and this will be a much more productive thread.

Hope that helps.

 

[Vile_Servant]

to Vile Servant: you said even the souls in hell may be judged in the general judgment, yet fidelis claims (accdg to the cc) that it doesnt. so which is which?

The CC states that there are two judgements; the Particular Judgement, and the General Judgement. Therefore the soul will be judged twice.

However, the eternal destiny of the soul does not change after the Particular Judgement. That is, a soul that has gone to heaven after the Particular Judgement will go to heaven after the General Judgement. Similarly, a soul which have been damned to hell after the Particular Judgement will go to hell after the General Judgement.

Then, one may ask, why is there a need for the General Judgement? The CC explains why; *1039 In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man’s relationship with God will be laid bare.[626] The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life: *

There are 4 points to note:

1. There will be a resurrection of the dead before the General Judgement. Souls will once more be united to their bodies, this time for eternity. We shall be judged and receive our reward body and soul before our Lord Jesus, the Divine Judge. For the blessed, their reward in heaven shall be increased because they can enjoy eternal bliss in body and soul. For the damned, their punishment in hell shall be increased because they will be tormented in body and soul.
2. The General Judgement is a public affair, with all of creation witnessing the Judgement. God’s justice decrees that the blessed shall be rewarded to the full, while the souls of the damned shall be chastised and shamed to the full. To give you an example, it is a greater reward to receive a public honor than a private one. It is a greater punishment to be shamed publicly than to be shamed privately.
3. All the consequences of our good works, or bad works, shall be fully accounted for at the General Judgement. For example, a saint whose life has been a good example to others and have inspired many others to living virtuous lives after his death, will have the meritorious consequences of his life credited to him at the General Judgement. There will be an increase of glory for him in heaven. Likewise, a reprobate whose sinful life had been a bad example to others and have incited others to fall into mortal sin and damnation after his death, will have his punishment in hell increased accordingly. For every single action of ours, including their furthest consequences, is recorded by God and judged by Him. And each person shall be rewarded or punished by God in the exact measure to what they deserve.
4. The CC explains; We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end.. After the Particular Judgement, each soul can only see a glimpse of God’s plan. At the General Judgement, all will finally see and understand the marvelous way how God’s Plan has unfolded in its entirety.

 

[Cristian_B]

The Bible clearly speaks of two judgments. The first, immediately after death:

And the second at the end of time:

Sure it does. Where else are the wicked going to be between the time they die and the end of time when “all the dead” (see above) are going to be judged?

As was stated numerous times above, he has been judged–right after death.

Answered in a previous post.

No change in status occurs. Those already dead who are destined for hell wind up in hell, and those destined for heaven wind up in heaven.

Again, answered in a previous post.

Perhaps you should read the whole thread and address the answers already given, including the article references provided. You will be a lot more informed and this will be a much more productive thread.

Hope that helps.

You have not explained why does God judge you twice. And if you are pronounced guilty, and after that you cannot change your status, then what’s the point of a second judgment?

 

[Fidelis]

You have not explained why does God judge you twice. And if you are pronounced guilty, and after that you cannot change your status, then what’s the point of a second judgment?

From Post #2:

Then will occur the General Judgment. At that time the souls of the living and the dead will be reunited with their bodies and brought together in God’s presence and judged before all. Those who have already been judged in the Particular Judgment will be brought from wherever their souls were – heaven, hell or Purgatory-- and have their judgment confirmed before all, so that both the justice and mercy of God will be manifest to all. No one will then have any doubt about the fairness of God’s judgement on those they thought would be in heaven but are not, or those they thought would not be in heaven but are.

From Post #12:

**CCC 1040 **The Last Judgment will come when Christ returns in glory. Only the Father knows the day and the hour; only he determines the moment of its coming. Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history. **We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end. The Last Judgment will reveal that God’s justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God’s “love is stronger than death.”**Cf. Song 8:6.]

 

[Fidei]

I think i got this now… Concerning the scriptures, Christ promised that “death will be no more” and all the dead shall be resurrected while all of us who are still alive at the Lord’s coming shall be “judged according to our deeds”, The dead will simply have their bodies back based on Christ’s promise that “death will be no more”. with that in mind, it does not change the fate of the soul where it has been whether it has been in heaven or hell.

-Christ gives us eternal life along with our physical bodies, the righteous in the earthly paradise, while the damned in a parallel state of eternal prison.

So Hades in a nutshell, is the general place for the dead not in hell nor in heaven but beneath the earth literally hidden, or being in a dark pit which is our common grave. The ones in Hades are not souls but the literal body of our physical human preexistence. The dead bodies of both righteous and unrighteous are mixed in this grave but their souls are in an entirely different place.

This Particular Judgment happens at death and to the dead while the General Judgment happens to those who are still alive to meet up with the Lord in judgment (since there is no point of judging the already innocent or guilty).

just my :twocents: