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majick275
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last time I checked, zerinus doesn’t get to determine who is or isn’t a catholic.
Finally, Catholic Answers comes clean with the mormon threat ownership.
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BartBurk
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You’ve got to be kidding. You really don’t like the evidence being presented here do you? It undercuts your world view way too much. I’m sure we are adding to your cognitive dissonance by presenting you an alternative way to look at Mormonism since such alternative evidence is normally not presented by the LDS Church. I don’t go to Mormon boards to “attack” Mormonism and wouldn’t be on a Catholic board if I didn’t believe in Catholicism. When presentation of the truth is perceived by Mormons as an attack, it tells us a lot about Mormonism.
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PaulDupre
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The difference (one that LDS can’t seem to understand) is that while everyone at times falls short of the standards of their faith, Joseph Smith actually taught that his sinful behaviors were commanded by God, then Joseph commanded his followers to commit the same sins, even threatening them with damnation if they refused.No, we do not accept that EVERYTHING Joseph Smith did was okay how can we since he was human? The ONLY one who is perfect is Jesus Christ. All of us - including our church prophets - are human and therefore at risk of making human errors/mistakes. Since when is perfection a requirement for being a prophet/church leader? Do you think the Pope is perfect? Do you think all the prophets of the old/new testament were perfect in every way? Again I say; Jesus was the only perfect person to walk the face of this earth.
Annie
(I just could not resist beating this dead horse one more time…)
Annie
No pope ever did that.
Paul
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ralphinal
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zerinus,
I thought you would say that. Now, if I may ask another question to follow that one. In Catholicism, you are supposed to have more than a basic knowledge of the faith before you become a member. That way, if you find parts that you cannot accept on faith, you can choose not to make the swim. From what I can gather from you, this is not the LDS way. Isn’t it a little unfair to the person to say, “Come on in.” Then tell them what they are expected to accept as a matter of faith?
I thought you would say that. Now, if I may ask another question to follow that one. In Catholicism, you are supposed to have more than a basic knowledge of the faith before you become a member. That way, if you find parts that you cannot accept on faith, you can choose not to make the swim. From what I can gather from you, this is not the LDS way. Isn’t it a little unfair to the person to say, “Come on in.” Then tell them what they are expected to accept as a matter of faith?
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zerinus
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I can only answer that by referring you to the 4 posts to which I had previously referred. That is how it was done in the biblical church. If you think that is “unfair,” you are finding fault with the Lord and His Apostles, not with us.
zerinus
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BartBurk
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Christ also said he would send the Holy Spirit to guide the Church and its people. With the rise of apostasy in the early church (Gnostics, etc.) it became necessary to teach people the true faith and make sure they understood it before entering. If the Holy Spirit guided church leaders to require a period of instruction, who are we to say they were wrong?
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RebeccaJ
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whyme, you have no idea how Catholics in Utah “feel”. So don’t even guess.I had this sneaky feeling that Rebecca just may be in the minority in Utah with her antimormon feelings. I did have this impression that the relationship between the two faiths in Utah may be just fine. Now if catholic answers will see the folly of their attack…
I wonder how the Catholic Church in Utah would feel about the campaign by catholic answers…I would think not to happy.
The Catholics in Utah are strong defenders of their faith. There is a constant barrage of mormon proselytizing, yet the Catholic population continues to grow.
We’re nice to our neighbors. Hell whyme, I’d hang with you in my backyard with a beer and give you tons of **** over your religion. It doesn’t mean that I have anything against you, as a person.
Your mormon religion is outside of the truth. When are you going to wake up?
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Jerusha
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earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html
At one time, this was the Catechism of the Catholic Church. If there was an apostasy, please find it here. I challenge you!!
At one time, this was the Catechism of the Catholic Church. If there was an apostasy, please find it here. I challenge you!!
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RebeccaJ
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zerinus, I would respond but as this is a blind attack, ie, one that you will never read the response to because you have me on ignore, it is rather pointless for me to type anything at all.
I will say, that perhaps you should come inside the Cathedral one day. You will see that it is CATHOLIC. You can worship Our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sanctuary. And you can pray with Mary in Our Lady of Zion chapel. And you can read the few scriptures that are painted in large, beautiful script, surrounded by stained glass, angels and saints. One of those scriptures says: “Upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”,
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Jerusha
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Advice for survival for non-Mormons in a Mormon-dominated area (satirical)
- Don’t discuss religion.
- When religion is brought up, pretend your jaws are wired shut. Try not to communicate through nonverbals.
- When others ask you what religion you are, tell them that you have made your choice, and you will not change your mind. Don’t be specific.
- If you come from an area of the country that has any connection with Mormon history, don’t let them know. Fudge on resumes and job applications, if possible.
- If you want to say ANYTHING that can be construed as antiMormon, make sure you test the waters first. “Is it safe to talk?” If possible, check the area for bugs.
- Do not divulge any aspect of your personal life, as it might be used against you.
- Do not admit to any past problems, as it can be used against you. “As you were, so are you now, and forever will be.”
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East_Anglican
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That’s the most blasphemous thing I’ve ever heard.Jesus sounds like George Bush.
(I jest)No they don’t. They stand up for Joseph Smith and his Masonic teachings. Mormons believe Christ is Satans brother and that is blasphemous filth. The Christ Mormons talk about is not the True Christ.
Matthew 7
21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
The fact that you love your friends and family does not make Jesus pleased with you. You must know him and who he truely is. If not he will tell you he doesn’t know you. We’re not saved by works, we’re saved by grace. Morality has nothing to do with it. He who believes and is baptised shall be saved. To be saved you must believe The Gospel and not Joseph Smith Brigham young and the other decievers.
Good idea! Attack Anglicanism to change the subject. We in England don’t bather about ECUSA that much. Also, you obviously know nothing about Anglicans worldwide.
Roman Catholics do stand up for Christ. Mormons don’t!
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East_Anglican
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2 Kings 10:27
They demolished the sacred stone of Baal and tore down the temple of Baal, and people have used it for a latrine to this day.
As you can see by the above scripture, the ancient Israelites were so meticulous about recording events, they even said where the nearest public conveniances were.
These people leaving for America are never mentioned in Hebrew sources writen or by oral tradition. There is also no mention of this in oral tradition of Native Americans. We know The Vikingas got to America because of Viking writings and Native American oral tradition. Mysteriously there is no mention of what the book of Mormon claims happened , happened.
There isn’t even any referance to boat building by the Israelites and their decendants unti l the riegn of King Herod.
No archeaological evidence either.
The Mormons know this but they always say there is. They lie on purpose!
They demolished the sacred stone of Baal and tore down the temple of Baal, and people have used it for a latrine to this day.
As you can see by the above scripture, the ancient Israelites were so meticulous about recording events, they even said where the nearest public conveniances were.
Mysteriously a nation who said where people went to relieve themselves never mentioned this.
These people leaving for America are never mentioned in Hebrew sources writen or by oral tradition. There is also no mention of this in oral tradition of Native Americans. We know The Vikingas got to America because of Viking writings and Native American oral tradition. Mysteriously there is no mention of what the book of Mormon claims happened , happened.
There isn’t even any referance to boat building by the Israelites and their decendants unti l the riegn of King Herod.
No archeaological evidence either.
The Mormons know this but they always say there is. They lie on purpose!
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RebeccaJ
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Actually, you have good advice, of the real kind. Not tongue-in-cheek.
The most difficult thing in Utah are the social aspects. For your children in school, there is a very real split between mormon and “everyone else”. There are a few mormon kids who cross the divide naturally and easily, but most mormon kids keep to their own little mormon cliques. In areas of Utah where there is a larger non-mormon population, it works out ok. There are enough non-mormon kids for these kids to not feel ostracized, at all. It is much more difficult for kids that are in an area that is 90%+ mormon. Friends are few and far between.
For adults, it works out ok. You have to work a little harder at creating your social life and your children’s as well. There are mormon kids around us, but none of them have ever befriended my daughter. It isn’t for lack of trying. When she was younger, I would invite them over to play and to birthday parties. But the parents obviously work the other direction, that is, keeping their kids with other mormon kids. So, childhood friends are far flung, and we have always made the effort to drive her and her friends here and there and everywhere, so that the friendships thrive.
A few mormons work pretty hard at trying to control everyone else. Some get offended because there is alcohol at a work party, and go on a personal campaign to have no alcohol at the next work party. Mormon missionaries proselytizing you on your flight home from Atlanta. Extremely LONG lines at every Starbucks…my theory is that is mormons, who don’t have coffee in their house. Biting your tongue in public areas where people are saying the most ridiculous and ignorant things about non-mormons and non-whites (racism is alive and well in Utah).
A benefit is shopping and going to see movies on Sundays. Mormons generally don’t do these things on Sundays, so the malls and theaters are much less crowded.
I have been on business trips before, where it is so incredibly refreshing to not hear one, single thing about the mormon church. I have literally cried a few times, while driving home from the airport. This was when I worked at a place that was owned by the mormon church. It was a daily nightmare to be there.
This place can really get to you. There are a few important things that keep me here. But there will be the day that I get out.
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why_me
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I think that zerinus was referring to your constant attack against the mormon religion. I am sure that you are a catholic and that you have found your peace in the catholic faith. But your constant attack against mormonism just may put you outside the box when it comes to the catholic faith in Utah. As I have pointed out, catholics and mormons have worked together in Utah. And I think that you should follow such an example.
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why_me
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Tsk, Tsk. Mormons can also stand up for Joseph Smith especially if he is attacked by people like you. But the lds church is very christ centered. Now, you may not believe it and you may not find the lds image of christ to your liking, but the lds are christ centered. And I would even say that by and large they are more christ centered than anglicans since the anglican church is one of the more liberal churches in the west as is the espiscopal church in america.That’s the most blasphemous thing I’ve ever heard.
No they don’t. They stand up for Joseph Smith and his Masonic teachings. Mormons believe Christ is Satans brother and that is blasphemous filth. The Christ Mormons talk about is not the True Christ.
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Annie_B
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We are here! Are you really ready for more?Will a Mormon ever show up in this thread?
Annie
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RebeccaJ
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You have no idea what you are talking about.
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Annie_B
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To those of you who think we are “refusing” to answer your questions: Be honest - it would not matter what the answers were. You have already decided that our faith is wrong and that yours is right. What is the point of arguing?
I, for one, am off to greener pastures. Try not to get to happy about it
Annie
I, for one, am off to greener pastures. Try not to get to happy about it
Annie
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East_Anglican
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Let me explain wiht pone of the creeds.
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one Eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated, but one Uncreated, and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Spirit Almighty. And yet they are not three almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord. And yet not three lords, but one Lord.
For as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge each Person by Himself to be both God and Lord, so we are also forbidden by the catholic religion to say that there are three gods or three lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
And in the Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another, but all three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved is must think thus of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man; God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of his mother, born in the world; perfect God and perfect man, of a rational soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching His godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching His manhood; who, although He is God and man, yet he is not two, but one Christ; one, not by conversion of the godhead into flesh but by taking of the manhood into God; one altogether; not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, He sits at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence He will come to judge the quick and the dead. At His coming all men will rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.
By this Mormons are not saved and are on a mision to get more people in Hell.
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why_me
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I don’t debate truth because such debates end with feelings of ill will. I let people have their own truths as long as such truth is centered in goodness and righteousness.
You should read USA Today today. There is something about religion in America. The mormons make up 1.6% and the catholics make up a much higher percentage. The immigrant community is mainly catholic. The mormons represent no threat to anyone. Utah was a mormon state. It was founded by mormons. But one thing I do know is that the mormon church and the catholic church in Utah do have a good relationship with each other. And there is respect. Now is it easy being catholic in Utah? No. But then again it is not very easy to be mormon in Italy or Ireland either. And I would venture to add that it is not easy being mormon in most parts of the world. Catholics only have Utah to worry about…the mormons on the end, are a minority religion throughout the world.
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