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Advocatus_Fidei
Guest
I have read it several times, you think that because we are saddened by peoples apathy towards the extraordinary form which we love so much we are snobs. You have not even begun to understand us.
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MarkThompson
Guest
No, that’s still not it. My point is that if you consider the people who don’t prefer to go to the EF to be lazy ingrates for not doing so, then they would be equally justified in considering you a stuck-up snob for preferring not to go to the Mass that they like.
Do you consider those people to be lazy, ungrateful, and apathetic? Then I have no problem calling your attitude snobbish. It would pretty much be the definition of snobbery. I wasn’t responding to you in the first place, though, but feel free to clarify if that’s not how you feel.
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Advocatus_Fidei
Guest
If they do not care or have any interest about mass in the extraordinary form they are apathetic towards it, the definition of apathetic is “having little or no interest or concern”.
And their apathy makes us sad, we want only to share this great treasure with them so that they can experience the transformation in their life’s which it has effected in our own but they are not interested, if that makes us snobs then I plead guilty and I will wear the insults I receive for this with honour on my soul.
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MarkThompson
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Plenty of people have experienced “life transformation” through plain-jane OF Masses, not to mention LifeTeen Masses and the like. I don’t hear many of them accuse the people who have no interest in it of being apathetic, unable to be “bothered to go,” and similar criticisms.
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Advocatus_Fidei
Guest
What is your point exactly, that you still think we are all a bunch of snobs? We gathered that already.
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CWBetts
Guest
Read my posts. I have attacked no one. The vitriol of Traditionalists leveled at mainstream Catholics, let alone those involved in the Charismatic Renewal is undeniable. I have actually said I do attend the Latin Mass upon occasion (about once a month during the School year). And somehow I am being labeled as hating the EF? I think not. As for the Eastern Catholics, they are practicing in their rite. I have never been to any Eastern Rite liturgy, though I think I would like to. However, it does seem self-righteous for a Latin Rite Catholic to look down their nose at other Latin right Catholics as being inferior based on which Mass they prefer. If my own parish would switch exclusively to the Latin Mass, I would not drive out of my way to go to an OF Mass. It is the same Eucharist. The Eucharist at a TLM is not somehow “more Jesus” than at the Ordinary Form. I also never called Traditionalists “evil.” But the disrespect shown the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by Traditionalists in this thread is undeniable.
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MarkThompson
Guest
So far, you sound like a snob. You’re also unjustifiably presuming that everyone who likes the EF is somehow in solidarity with you – a claim which, fortunately, I see little evidence of on a day-to-day basis. For someone who came on this thread screaming his head off about “tolerance,” you seem pretty unwilling to tolerate the notion that perfectly well-informed and well-meaning folks might just not like the Mass you like. The “if only they understood what they were missing out on” attitude is snobbish.
Well, as fun as this has been, I have to shave and get ready to go to Mass – EF, natch. (Betcha didn’t see that one coming.)
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Advocatus_Fidei
Guest
Yes I gathered we are all snobs.
I was never under the illusion that people who like the EF are all in solidarity with me, all kinds of people attend the EF these days for all kinds of reasons.
I’m not interested in tolerance all I want from people like you is to be left alone, the people are free to not like the EF if they don’t want to doesn’t mean I have to agree with their choice, obviously I am not going to agree with or think it is the right one otherwise their choice would be my choice, make sense? Nothing snobbish about it just been consistent.
Does not surprise me you go to the EF at all like I said all kinds of people do these days I would be surprised if you were going to one 20 years ago though. Now I also have to go to Mass in the OF, none of the priests will offer the EF where I live so think yourself lucky you have the option.
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Shin
Guest
Yes, this is priceless!
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Timothy17
Guest
TLM FTW 
I think the OF, in time, will develop more and more towards increased solemnity and reverence (I’m basing this on the recent revisions to the OF in English to conform it more closely to its Latin template). The EF developed over time, so too will the OF; however, I think trying to compare the spirituality imbued by the two as if utterly equal due purely to their interchangeable status is a mistake. The EF is preferable because it is superior; it is superior because of its antiquity, for the same reasons the OF, too, with time, will become better and better; perhaps even itself superior. Now, of course, the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ under both forms undoubtedly, and reverence for that should not be altered because of the form; however, the EF certainly invites increased reverence for the Sacrament, and this more so or less so depending on how the counterpart OF (in the eyes of the parishioner attending) is or was celebrated. Poor OFs will be shown by contrast to the EF, while good celebrations of the OF will less likely lead someone to desire the EF all the time. I think a lot of the controversy in opinion over the EF or OF has to do with the OF people have been subjected to over their lives: those whose experience was free from any scandal or scandalous OF masses will be happier with the OF; the others will naturally be drawn more to the EF.
This all being said, I have attended very good OF masses that certainly caused a sense of spiritual reverence and humility: it seems to me the more strictly the OF mass is celebrated to its rubrics and the intentions of the Council Fathers, for example, the better it is; on the other hand, the rock-concert feeling at some OF masses is certainly scandalous, though I temper that with the knowledge that it is not meant to be so, that license and experimentation is the cause of that, and not the rubrics or the intentions of the Church itself in the OF.
Ramble complete.
I think the OF, in time, will develop more and more towards increased solemnity and reverence (I’m basing this on the recent revisions to the OF in English to conform it more closely to its Latin template). The EF developed over time, so too will the OF; however, I think trying to compare the spirituality imbued by the two as if utterly equal due purely to their interchangeable status is a mistake. The EF is preferable because it is superior; it is superior because of its antiquity, for the same reasons the OF, too, with time, will become better and better; perhaps even itself superior. Now, of course, the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ under both forms undoubtedly, and reverence for that should not be altered because of the form; however, the EF certainly invites increased reverence for the Sacrament, and this more so or less so depending on how the counterpart OF (in the eyes of the parishioner attending) is or was celebrated. Poor OFs will be shown by contrast to the EF, while good celebrations of the OF will less likely lead someone to desire the EF all the time. I think a lot of the controversy in opinion over the EF or OF has to do with the OF people have been subjected to over their lives: those whose experience was free from any scandal or scandalous OF masses will be happier with the OF; the others will naturally be drawn more to the EF.
This all being said, I have attended very good OF masses that certainly caused a sense of spiritual reverence and humility: it seems to me the more strictly the OF mass is celebrated to its rubrics and the intentions of the Council Fathers, for example, the better it is; on the other hand, the rock-concert feeling at some OF masses is certainly scandalous, though I temper that with the knowledge that it is not meant to be so, that license and experimentation is the cause of that, and not the rubrics or the intentions of the Church itself in the OF.
Ramble complete.
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ProVobis
Guest
At least this attack was made in the third person.
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CWBetts
Guest
This was not an attack. This was a statement of fact. The more conservative among the Traditionalists go to great lengths to insult any who is not of their persuasion. It has already been implied that the OF is inferior.At least this attack was made in the third person.
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ProVobis
Guest
And what else is expected on a trad forum?
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CWBetts
Guest
Since Traditionalists are so much better Catholics than us poor, deluded mainstream Catholics, I was hoping for charity and humility. But who am I kidding? this is the internet!And what else is expected on a trad forum?
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Lycorth
Guest
Amazing. Can’t even make a post about an uplifting experience at a TLM without a flame war starting.
Interestingly enough, it wasn’t a “self-righteous” traditionalist “snob” who fired the first salvo, either, according to the eighth post on this thread…
For the rest of you who have the decency to leave positive feedback, thank you for your replies. Just ignore the other two; turn the other cheek to this pettiness and show them the true meaning of Christian charity. Knock the dust from your sandals and move on. Maybe they’ll take a hint.
As for us, let’s just keep on talking about the beauty of the TLM
Interestingly enough, it wasn’t a “self-righteous” traditionalist “snob” who fired the first salvo, either, according to the eighth post on this thread…
For the rest of you who have the decency to leave positive feedback, thank you for your replies. Just ignore the other two; turn the other cheek to this pettiness and show them the true meaning of Christian charity. Knock the dust from your sandals and move on. Maybe they’ll take a hint.
As for us, let’s just keep on talking about the beauty of the TLM
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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
Wow, almost an entire thread deleted.
First of all, those who count themselves traditionalist Catholics ARE “mainstream”. Second, some here are coming dangerously close to recieving a ‘contempt for Catholicism’ warning (pretty embarrarsing for a Catholic), which will result in a suspension. Attacking an approved Mass in the Catholic Church IS contempt.
Lycoth’s post was about attending his first TLM.
If you have a problem with the TLM or traditionalist Catholicism, I would advise you avoid these forums.
First of all, those who count themselves traditionalist Catholics ARE “mainstream”. Second, some here are coming dangerously close to recieving a ‘contempt for Catholicism’ warning (pretty embarrarsing for a Catholic), which will result in a suspension. Attacking an approved Mass in the Catholic Church IS contempt.
Lycoth’s post was about attending his first TLM.
If you have a problem with the TLM or traditionalist Catholicism, I would advise you avoid these forums.
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JustaServant
Guest
Wonderful post Lycorth. If I am up in Pittsburgh and able to attend St. Boniface I enjoy responding with the choir in Latin. The more you go the more Latin you learn. I wish I could attend every week, but is an awe-inspiring experience.
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Lycorth
Guest
Thank you, Eric
I was almost unsure of it for a few minutes during the beginning. Knowing only the NO Mass style, not having anything to respond with makes one feel out of the picture, until one remembers the altar server does our responses for us, as if our representative on the altar. After that very slight bump, it was a smooth ride till the end
Praying at the end of Mass was also very nice; when the Mass was finished the praying didn’t end. It was like a reminder that one’s faith isn’t just for Mass time, it is for all of the time, even when Mass is over. That made a powerful impression on me.
Amen, every single day. I’m thinking of seeing if they need any more altar servers.Congratulations. I love the Extraordinary Form of the Mass and would go every day if I could.
The nearest one to me is only 50 miles away and I am almost the only person that attends.Here are all these people who have right in their own back yard a treasure that I have to drive 50 miles to get, and they can’t be bothered.
Amen. The Church would truly be united if Latin were restored as the universal norm for all Masses, EF and OF alike. Even though there is more to the Mass than the use of Latin, the use of Latin in and of itself is powerful and, I am coming to truly see, essential. I loved hearing an OF in Latin, like on EWTN. If only that were the norm…
Thank youI’m glad that your first TLM was so favourable, Lycorth.
I was almost unsure of it for a few minutes during the beginning. Knowing only the NO Mass style, not having anything to respond with makes one feel out of the picture, until one remembers the altar server does our responses for us, as if our representative on the altar. After that very slight bump, it was a smooth ride till the end Praying at the end of Mass was also very nice; when the Mass was finished the praying didn’t end. It was like a reminder that one’s faith isn’t just for Mass time, it is for all of the time, even when Mass is over. That made a powerful impression on me.
I think so, too, especially with the general rise in interest in Catholic traditions amongst younger Catholics. The TLM will become more widespread, and it is m earnest hope that the OF is brought more into line with traditional attitudes and reverence. Again, just watch EWTN for a fine example of how an OF Mass ought to be celebrated, Latin and all. An all-Latin OF Mass celebrated in a highly conservative and traditional manner is something I pray becomes the required norm.TLM FTW
I think the OF, in time, will develop more and more towards increased solemnity and reverence (I’m basing this on the recent revisions to the OF in English to conform it more closely to its Latin template).
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Victorious
Guest
Run, don’t walk, to offer your services in this regard. The priest at the parish I attend that has the TLM can only offer Low Mass, because he has nobody to serve.
(Not that there’s anything wrong with Low Mass. I love it. But High Mass on Sundays and holy days would be nice.)
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CradleCath
Guest
Words don’t do it justice, but yours came close. 3 years ago this fall, I attended the Traditional Latin Mass for the first time in 40 YEARS. The tears welled as Father slowly pronounced the words:
Hoc est enim corpus Meum
For This Is My Body
& they ran down my face as I knelt to receive the Eucharist for, again, the first time in 40 YEARS. I was embarrassed, because Father couldn’t have missed them…but he told me later that he saw this repeatedly. He is very young, a diocesan priest & very kind.
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