Finally, The Truth Comes Out!

[Lapell]

Jesus refers to this miracle in Matt 16. Since Jesus is reminding his disciples of how he fed 5000 with 5 loaves how can anyone preach that this is a metaphor for getting them to share what was already present?

Matthew Chapter 16
.

Excellent point, murphjos!

 

[Pax]

I wouldn’t judge people too harshly, Ryan, who take a less literal view of scripture than you do.
Let’s face it. Virtually everybody interprets scripture to some extend. If we didn’t, all of us would be in jail, as the law doesn’t take too kindly to the stoning to death of young women for the crime of not being a virgin on their wedding day, to give but one example.

Regarding the veracity of miracles, I think we ought to keep in mind that many contemporary, well-educated people claim to have witnessed miracles.
There are scores of (Western) devotees of yogis and other supposed holy men, who swear up and down that they have witnessed miracles of exactly the sort ascribed to Jesus:
raising the dead, materializing objects, flying without the aid of technology etc.

You can actually watch these ‘miracles’ on the web, on places like Youtube,
You will probably fail to be impressed by this ‘evidence’, just like me.

We have to conclude from this that people who are enthralled by a religious preacher are extremely unreliable witnesses, therefore we can not assume that a suspension of the laws of nature has occurred, merely because someone claims to have seen it happen.

We just have no way of knowing if Jesus’ miracles actually took place.
People who claim to be certain of this must have sources of information that are unavailable to me.

Jules,

Non-believers can dispute whether or not real miracles exist, but even a non-believer cannot dispute the clear intent of the bible text under consideration. The meaning of the text is that a miracle took place that involved the multiplication of the loaves and fishes as opposed to a metaphor.

 

[Jules_Winnfield]

Jules,

Non-believers can dispute whether or not real miracles exist, but even a non-believer cannot dispute the clear intent of the bible text under consideration. The meaning of the text is that a miracle took place that involved the multiplication of the loaves and fishes as opposed to a metaphor.

I agree, Pax. The text means what it says.

Greets,

Jules

 

[edgarddb]

I had heard that version or something similar to it 3 times by different priest, and I made up my mind the next time I hear this I am going to walk out. So a new chaplain, who was kind of aloof, did surprise me one day with the familiar line of :" The real miracle may have been that the jews began to share the bread they were hiding in their cloaks" I was sitting up front since I was E M E, ( LEM in those days) so I just got up and walked out.
The next time I heard it I confronted the priest and asked him if Jesus was a liar.“How so?” Well I replied, in Math.16: 5-12 when they were in the boat, Jesus asked them point blanc : " How mane baskets were filled when we fed 5 thousand and how many baskets of leftovers were there when we fed 4000?" I said FATHER, he also warned them of the yeast of the pharisees, PERHAPS he also warned us about the modern day pharisees. I said further, The multiplication was the precurser of the far greater miracle of the Eucharist with which JESUS has been feeding millions of souls for the last 2000 years.
Well, the Father said, he had never thought about it that way. It was a line he was taught in the siminary and from now on he would not ever preach about the sharing. So please If you ever hear it, go and confront the priest, They are human too and were taught this line and think it is cute, and they want to show us how enlightend they are.

 

[patrick457]

I had heard that version or something similar to it 3 times by different priest, and I made up my mind the next time I hear this I am going to walk out. So a new chaplain, who was kind of aloof, did surprise me one day with the familiar line of :" The real miracle may have been that the jews began to share the bread they were hiding in their cloaks" I was sitting up front since I was E M E, ( LEM in those days) so I just got up and walked out.
The next time I heard it I confronted the priest and asked him if Jesus was a liar.“How so?” Well I replied, in Math.16: 5-12 when they were in the boat, Jesus asked them point blanc : " How mane baskets were filled when we fed 5 thousand and how many baskets of leftovers were there when we fed 4000?" I said FATHER, he also warned them of the yeast of the pharisees, PERHAPS he also warned us about the modern day pharisees. I said further, The multiplication was the precurser of the far greater miracle of the Eucharist with which JESUS has been feeding millions of souls for the last 2000 years.
Well, the Father said, he had never thought about it that way. It was a line he was taught in the siminary and from now on he would not ever preach about the sharing. So please If you ever hear it, go and confront the priest, They are human too and were taught this line and think it is cute, and they want to show us how enlightend they are.

Good job, Edgar!

 

[ChadS]

Yesterday, my bible study friend told me she spoke with a retired priest who is a specialist in theology about the subject. He said, “why that’s an old German heresy that was taught a long time ago!” It’s not true and unfortunately was being taught to young priests.

What I want to know is why are the Germans always getting a bad rap?

ChadS

 

[patrick457]

What I want to know is why are the Germans always getting a bad rap?

ChadS

For one thing, a good number of in/famous Biblical scholars and theologians in the past two to three centuries who helped shape the quests for ‘the historical Jesus’ (people such as Hermann Samuel Reimarus, David Friedrich Strauss, Rudolph Bultmann, Heinrich Julius Holtzmann, or Johannes Weiss) had their origins in Germany.

 

[po18guy]

Come to think of it…the disciples and Jesus were under the impression that the people did not have anything to eat, if we take the Gospel accounts here. Isn’t it odd that these priests just suddenly come up and say, “Oh, they’re just being stingy and trying to hoard food until Jesus convinced them to share,” as if the Son of God Himself did not know what was happening in the back?

It is also quite an insult to the four thousand. It assumes that they were too stupid to eat for three days (Mark 8:2), even though they had “hidden” food. As well, the stated number of “4,000” did not include women and children (Matthew 15:38), so it could have been as much as 10,000. So, not even one mother would produce the “hidden” food to feed her crying, hungry children?

 

[Benadam]

What irony. The Apostles were getting a foretaste of their ministry in the future Church and one of their ministers of that future Church doesn’t recognize the taste.

 

[Lapell]

I had heard that version or something similar to it 3 times by different priest, and I made up my mind the next time I hear this I am going to walk out. So a new chaplain, who was kind of aloof, did surprise me one day with the familiar line of :" The real miracle may have been that the jews began to share the bread they were hiding in their cloaks" I was sitting up front since I was E M E, ( LEM in those days) so I just got up and walked out.
The next time I heard it I confronted the priest and asked him if Jesus was a liar.“How so?” Well I replied, in Math.16: 5-12 when they were in the boat, Jesus asked them point blanc : " How mane baskets were filled when we fed 5 thousand and how many baskets of leftovers were there when we fed 4000?" I said FATHER, he also warned them of the yeast of the pharisees, PERHAPS he also warned us about the modern day pharisees. I said further, The multiplication was the precurser of the far greater miracle of the Eucharist with which JESUS has been feeding millions of souls for the last 2000 years.
Well, the Father said, he had never thought about it that way. It was a line he was taught in the siminary and from now on he would not ever preach about the sharing. So please If you ever hear it, go and confront the priest, They are human too and were taught this line and think it is cute, and they want to show us how enlightend they are.

Thanks for the tip, Edgar.
How scary it is, though…

 

[Ignatius]

…the disciples and Jesus were under the impression that the people did not have anything to eat, if we take the Gospel accounts here.

Yes, but Jesus and the Apostles and everyone from then until now didn’t have the great benefit of the wisdom and insight of our 20Th century theologians who know so much more than those who were actually there!

 

[sulkow82]

A few weeks ago, while in a bible study group, the statement came up about the miracle of the bread and fish and how the real miracle was that people shared with others.

and Scripture says…

And they all ate and were satisfied. And they took up twelve baskets full of the broken pieces left over. (Matt 14: 20)

I would ask anyone who preaches the “sharing miracle” interpretation “so you believe that Jesus advocated theft?” If the miracle was sharing, then that was the crowd’s food that the Apostles collected.