Financial issue with family coming up to marriage

[Irishmom2]

If the mom were posting we would all agree on what she should do. But she isn’t. I think it’s pretty clear. Part of being a grown up married man is fulfilling your obligations.

So this is all about being a man and being an adult to you?

Obviously, your children are young. Being a parent does not end one day and you change to a strictly business arrangement another day.

Hoosier, would you honestly be such a tightly wound dad if this were one of your daughters? Don’t answer that right away, or at all.

Someday, something will happen and you will see that our plans don’t always go as we plan. I can either be loving to my child or I can continue to prove a point. Sometimes, not proving your point becomes the more loving choice.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Hey Adam, I do think your mum is being unreasonable. I’m sure she’s lovely 99% of the time so I didn’t want to comment on her in my first comment in case I offended you.

My mum got on great with her dad 90% of the time but he did a similar thing to your mum and insisted that she invite every relative under the sun. However he paid for it. If you paid for all of those distant relatives to come to the wedding then your mum probably owes you rent money

Jokes aside, it’s not worth fighting over. I’m sure it wouldn’t cause a massive blow-up fight in your case, but emotions runs high at traditional Irish weddings and it’s generally little things that cause the explosion. I think you should accept that she is being unreasonable and try and find a compromise. I’m all for paying rent to your parents once you have a job, but a month before your wedding I would have assumed most mums would be fine with allowing you to not pay rent. But hey, if this is a quirk of your mums, try and not let it get to you because you don’t need more stuff stressing you out before your wedding.

As a final note, I strongly disagree with her suggestion to get your fiancée to help pay. She isn’t your wife yet and it has nothing to do with her.

 

[Lorelei12]

I think that, if your parents do not actually need the money, your mom is being pretty unreasonable. From this and your other thread, it does sound like maybe she is having a hard time adjusting to your impending marriage and is acting a bit irrationally.

However- I think your approach may be a little off. You mentioned that you basically told her “I need to pay rent elsewhere now, so sorry but I’m not contributing to your home anymore” before you’ve moved out. A better approach might have been to explain that you are going to have trouble affording to pay her, and asking whether there is any way that you can make it up to her. For instance, as some other posters have mentioned, a payment plan. Or making dinner for the family a few times a week, or some other such household contribution.

Maybe she’s a little put off that you can afford a honeymoon and other things but cannot seem to afford to fulfill your obligation to her. While it does sound like she might be using the situation to express her discomfort at “losing you” to your future wife, I still think that you owe her and your living arrangement what she is due. Personally, I think it’s a bit sad that she cannot seem to let it go and wish you well, but in the end a good man will hold up his end of the bargain, even if he views the situation as unreasonable.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

So this is all about being a man and being an adult to you?

Obviously, your children are young. Being a parent does not end one day and you change to a strictly business arrangement another day.

Hoosier, would you honestly be such a tightly wound dad if this were one of your daughters? Don’t answer that right away, or at all.

Someday, something will happen and you will see that our plans don’t always go as we plan. I can either be loving to my child or I can continue to prove a point. Sometimes, not proving your point becomes the more loving choice.

Of course not with my own daughters! I think everyone is too hung up on the mother being unreasonable. No one is defending her. BUT. The op is paying rent and legally that is a contract. He wants to not pay rent and us saying that if he has to pay rent it will break him. Some people on this thread would give extremely different answers if it were a landlord we were talking about. And a landlord would have additional fines and legal action. A mom might not go that route. But judging by daytime tv she might…
Either way, something doesn’t add up here.

The right thing for the mom to do is to say “think nothing of it son, you and your wife have a good life. And as a wedding gift I actually saved all the rent you paid in a seperate account and it should be enough for s down payment on a house for you. I wish I could do more my precious son, but much like the giving tree, I just can’t…”

But, the mom isn’t posting and we have no way to advise her or change her behavior. We can however advise a young man to pay what he owes even when he doesn’t like the terms or it is hard to do.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Yes!

The rehearsal dinner and other expenses on the groom’s sides can run thousands of dollars.

I should know, our son got married last April.

Ireland is different. In some cases the bride’s family does pay but often the bride and groom pay for the whole thing. The way it should be if you ask me. 21% of couples share expenses with their parents and the rest do it themselves.

Also the bridal party have no expenses at weddings in Ireland - all of that is paid for by whoever is paying for the wedding. The average wedding is €25000 apparently.

independent.ie/life/who-really-pays-for-the-big-day-31411093.html

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Of course not with my own daughters! I think everyone is too hung up on the mother being unreasonable. No one is defending her. BUT. The op is paying rent and legally that is a contract. He wants to not pay rent and us saying that if he has to pay rent it will break him. Some people on this thread would give extremely different answers if it were a landlord we were talking about. And a landlord would have additional fines and legal action. A mom might not go that route. But judging by daytime tv she might…
Either way, something doesn’t add up here.

The right thing for the mom to do is to say “think nothing of it son, you and your wife have a good life. And as a wedding gift I actually saved all the rent you paid in a seperate account and it should be enough for s down payment on a house for you. I wish I could do more my precious son, but much like the giving tree, I just can’t…”

But, the mom isn’t posting and we have no way to advise her or change her behavior. We can however advise a young man to pay what he owes even when he doesn’t like the terms or it is hard to do.

I think you might be thinking of rent in the wrong terms here… maybe not… but I think what Adam means is that he gives some of his wages towards the running of the household. Not a formal rent agreement, just fairness since he’s an earner and living at home. It’s really not in any form a legal agreement. Generally speaking, most parents would be very accepting of their son/daughter not paying “rent” for a short time if they hid a particularly hard patch.

Which is why we are suggesting that the mother’s behaviour is unreasonable and suggesting alternative methods of satisfying her.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think you might be thinking of rent in the wrong terms here… maybe not… but I think what Adam means is that he gives some of his wages towards the running of the household. Not a formal rent agreement, just fairness since he’s an earner and living at home. It’s really not in any form a legal agreement. Generally speaking, most parents would be very accepting of their son/daughter not paying “rent” for a short time if they hid a particularly hard patch.

Which is why we are suggesting that the mother’s behaviour is unreasonable and suggesting alternative methods of satisfying her.

I’m no lawyer. And I’m not a people’s court junkie, but I have seen enough episodes to know that regardless of a written contract exchanging goods, services, or money for residence invokes a contract binded by the law. If the mom sued. She would win.

Why is it that no one can separate the mom out of this?

Again, if a person were writing that they couldn’t pay rent to the landlord and were planning on stiffing him to go off and have a wedding and marriage the answers would be different. Even if there were no written lease.

I’m confused on why this amount of money cannot be paid, no matter how unreasonable it seems to demand or expect it.

I’ll just remind everyone that we only get one side here…

It says a man should leave his parents to cling to his wife, not stiff his parents to cling to his wife…

I’m also convened about an equally yoked marriage here but that is for another thread.

If we were in real life and AP was talking to me at the water cooler at work I would politely nod and wish him well in his nuptials. I’d probably voice how terrible I think his mother is acting. But this is more of an Internet advice thread.

I have an extremely difficult mother as well. I lived with her before my wife and I married. It was incredibly hard. if there is a gap between rent and moving in, perhaps it can be filled by crashing on a friends couch.

Honestly what I learned from my mom and her antics is to pay it and NEVER put yourself in that position again. AP knows full well his mom’s behavior. Time to chalk up the money lost here to a sad lesson about boundaries with mom!

Wait until kids come along!!!

 

[slh3016]

But if the landlord were not mom, the OP could still go to mom and dad and ask for help with the last month’s rent/wedding expenses…

Not necessarily. I couldn’t go to my parents when I was getting married.

At least in the US, it’s quite normal these days for the groom’s family to be hit up for a contribution to the wedding. It raises a lot of issues (too many cooks spoil the soup), but to marry off a child these days and get off virtually scot-free financially is amazing.

Yes, is is quite normal but in some cases, the parents of the groom are unwilling or simply cannot afford to do so

If it were my son getting married, and the only contribution asked of me was to buy a dress and forgive a last month of rent, I’d be dancing in the streets.

Yes, me, too, but obviously that isn’t the type of person the OP is dealing with

 

[AdamP88]

I’m no lawyer. And I’m not a people’s court junkie, but I have seen enough episodes to know that regardless of a written contract exchanging goods, services, or money for residence invokes a contract binded by the law. If the mom sued. She would win.

Why is it that no one can separate the mom out of this?

Again, if a person were writing that they couldn’t pay rent to the landlord and were planning on stiffing him to go off and have a wedding and marriage the answers would be different. Even if there were no written lease.

I’m confused on why this amount of money cannot be paid, no matter how unreasonable it seems to demand or expect it.

I’ll just remind everyone that we only get one side here…

It says a man should leave his parents to cling to his wife, not stiff his parents to cling to his wife…

I’m also convened about an equally yoked marriage here but that is for another thread.

If we were in real life and AP was talking to me at the water cooler at work I would politely nod and wish him well in his nuptials. I’d probably voice how terrible I think his mother is acting. But this is more of an Internet advice thread.

I have an extremely difficult mother as well. I lived with her before my wife and I married. It was incredibly hard. if there is a gap between rent and moving in, perhaps it can be filled by crashing on a friends couch.

Honestly what I learned from my mom and her antics is to pay it and NEVER put yourself in that position again. AP knows full well his mom’s behavior. Time to chalk up the money lost here to a sad lesson about boundaries with mom!

Wait until kids come along!!!

Well…perhaps you would have a valid point if I hadn’t ended up paying for half of mom’s “essential” guests. That is more than the amount of cash that I would owe her for a month of rent.

I’m not “stiffing” anyone here as you put it. I’m simply asking my mother to be reasonable. I’ve lived there for years, always paid and done gardening and other jobs to help out.

The issue here is not my readiness for marriage. I’ve paid for a wedding, honeymoon, studies, apartment, and half my mom’s guests. I don’t think a little leeway in my last month at home is too much to ask.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m no lawyer. And I’m not a people’s court junkie, but I have seen enough episodes to know that regardless of a written contract exchanging goods, services, or money for residence invokes a contract binded by the law. If the mom sued. She would win.

Why is it that no one can separate the mom out of this?

Again, if a person were writing that they couldn’t pay rent to the landlord and were planning on stiffing him to go off and have a wedding and marriage the answers would be different. Even if there were no written lease.

I’m confused on why this amount of money cannot be paid, no matter how unreasonable it seems to demand or expect it.

I’ll just remind everyone that we only get one side here…

It says a man should leave his parents to cling to his wife, not stiff his parents to cling to his wife…

I’m also convened about an equally yoked marriage here but that is for another thread.

If we were in real life and AP was talking to me at the water cooler at work I would politely nod and wish him well in his nuptials. I’d probably voice how terrible I think his mother is acting. But this is more of an Internet advice thread.

I have an extremely difficult mother as well. I lived with her before my wife and I married. It was incredibly hard. if there is a gap between rent and moving in, perhaps it can be filled by crashing on a friends couch.

Honestly what I learned from my mom and her antics is to pay it and NEVER put yourself in that position again. AP knows full well his mom’s behavior. Time to chalk up the money lost here to a sad lesson about boundaries with mom!

Wait until kids come along!!!

My parents were not like this. Thank goodness.
Money was never ever a segment or a condition of our relationship.
If I had had brothers, nothing would have been different.
Chalk it up? That’s just a sad attitude. I’m sure he won’t treat his own children like this, no matter their age.
It’s ONE DAY in their lives. And it all comes down to cold cash. Wow.

 

[Xantippe]

I**f mom wants to be legalistic, and we are going to treat mom as a landlord in this context, then perhaps mom can produce a signed copy of Adam’s lease to settle the matter. **Short of that, your argument falls short because there is no legal agreement. That’s why, IMO, treating it as a legal matter and not a compassionate, mother-son relationship matter is a bad thing.

Mom is being silly and unreasonable in this case. By your logic, the terms of their non-written agreement would be binding even if the son was having all his income sucked away paying for life-saving medical treatment.

“Sorry kid, love ya, but a deal’s a deal.”

Right.

 

[slh3016]

If mom wants to be legalistic, and we are going to treat mom as a landlord in this context, then perhaps mom can produce a signed copy of Adam’s lease to settle the matter. Short of that, your argument falls short because there is no legal agreement. That’s why, IMO, treating it as a legal matter and not a compassionate, mother-son relationship matter is a bad thing.

None of us can force another person to be compassionate, unfortunately. OP’s mom is not and for whatever reason, she is calling in his obligation for the last month he is there. In her warped thinking, she is trying to make some “point.” Verbal agreements can often be proven in court based upon the actions of both parties in ratifying the contract, one of which would be the OP’s prior payments.

Mom is being silly and unreasonable in this case. By your logic, the terms of their non-written agreement would be binding even if the son was having all his income sucked away paying for life-saving medical treatment.

I agree. Mom is being silly and unreasonable. Many moms/MIL’s are (don’t ask me how I know this firsthand ). What I suggest is to separate out the “Mom factor” and look at this like a normal adult situation in which, if you have made previous commitments, either written or verbal, those should be honored.

Personally, I think Mom is being a twit but that doesn’t alleviate OP from just sucking the situation up and paying it, if for no other reason that to just be done with it and her.

 

[AdamP88]

I think you might be thinking of rent in the wrong terms here… maybe not… but I think what Adam means is that he gives some of his wages towards the running of the household. Not a formal rent agreement, just fairness since he’s an earner and living at home. It’s really not in any form a legal agreement. Generally speaking, most parents would be very accepting of their son/daughter not paying “rent” for a short time if they hid a particularly hard patch.

Which is why we are suggesting that the mother’s behaviour is unreasonable and suggesting alternative methods of satisfying her.

This is basically the situation, yeah.

 

[Irishmom2]

Why is it that no one can separate the mom out of this?

Precisely because it **is ** his mom. Because she is not his landlord, she is his mom. Because he is paying for his own wedding and he had to include his mom’s friends at great expense to him, **but he did it anyway. Because she is his mom. ** And now **she **can’t let it go?

 

[Xantippe]

That may be true, but his mother insisting on this obligation seems to me a good way for AP to avoid being obliged to her in anything in the future.

I think it’s really terrible of her to insist on it, and I’m making a mental note of how I’d like to treat my sons in the future, especially if they stay on the moral straight and narrow as AP has.

Right. Punishing the “good kid” is terrible.

 

[AdamP88]

None of us can force another person to be compassionate, unfortunately. OP’s mom is not and for whatever reason, she is calling in his obligation for the last month he is there. In her warped thinking, she is trying to make some “point.” Verbal agreements can often be proven in court based upon the actions of both parties in ratifying the contract, one of which would be the OP’s prior payments.

I agree. Mom is being silly and unreasonable. Many moms/MIL’s are (don’t ask me how I know this firsthand ). What I suggest is to separate out the “Mom factor” and look at this like a normal adult situation in which, if you have made previous commitments, either written or verbal, those should be honored.

Personally, I think Mom is being a twit but that doesn’t alleviate OP from just sucking the situation up and paying it, if for no other reason that to just be done with it and her.

Ehhh…welll…we also had a deal that mom would pay for her own wedding guests, but that didn’t actually happen. I covered most of them out and I was kinda hoping she’d recognise that.

 

[slh3016]

I’m no lawyer. And I’m not a people’s court junkie, but I have seen enough episodes to know that regardless of a written contract exchanging goods, services, or money for residence invokes a contract binded by the law. If the mom sued. She would win.

Why is it that no one can separate the mom out of this?

Again, if a person were writing that they couldn’t pay rent to the landlord and were planning on stiffing him to go off and have a wedding and marriage the answers would be different. Even if there were no written lease.

I’m confused on why this amount of money cannot be paid, no matter how unreasonable it seems to demand or expect it.

I’ll just remind everyone that we only get one side here…

It says a man should leave his parents to cling to his wife, not stiff his parents to cling to his wife…

I’m also convened about an equally yoked marriage here but that is for another thread.

If we were in real life and AP was talking to me at the water cooler at work I would politely nod and wish him well in his nuptials. I’d probably voice how terrible I think his mother is acting. But this is more of an Internet advice thread.

I have an extremely difficult mother as well. I lived with her before my wife and I married. It was incredibly hard. if there is a gap between rent and moving in, perhaps it can be filled by crashing on a friends couch.

**Honestly what I learned from my mom and her antics is to pay it and NEVER put yourself in that position again. AP knows full well his mom’s behavior. Time to chalk up the money lost here to a sad lesson about boundaries with mom!

Wait until kids come along!!!**

^^^^THIS! Especially the bolded part! Been there, done that!

OP, I can greatly empathize with your situation. I have both a dad that is a narcissistic jerk and stiffed DH and I on his contribution to our wedding and a MIL who has always been very unpredictable in her “unreasonableness.”

From experience, it’s not worth the fight and the hassle. Just somehow manage to pay your mom what she expects/you promised either implicitly or explicitly. Chalk it up as “stupid tax” and be done with it. Consider this an early lesson on the value of setting boundaries with parents in order to protect your marriage and your spouse. In hindsight, it will be a small price to pay, I ASSURE YOU!

I also assure you that no matter no much you want to stand your ground on this particular issue, when dealing with a person lacking compassion and rationale, you are fighting a losing battle. There is never going to be an “AHA!” moment in her thinking. Just get it over with and never put yourself in a situation like this again.

Good luck with everything!

 

[Xantippe]

Precisely because it **is ** his mom. Because she is not his landlord, she is his mom. Because he is paying for his own wedding and he had to include his mom’s friends at great expense to him, **but he did it anyway. Because she is his mom. ** And now **she **can’t let it go?

Right.

His landlord wouldn’t have had him invite all these distant relatives.

 

[Xantippe]

Ehhh…welll…we also had a deal that mom would pay for her own wedding guests, but that didn’t actually happen. I covered most of them out and I was kinda hoping she’d recognise that.

Have you pointed that out to her yet?

I think I would the next time she brings up the subject of the “rent.”

“I owe you money mom, but you owe me money for extra wedding guests. Let’s call it even.”

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The landlord and the guests are two seperate issues. Unless we want to create a spreadsheet on who did what for whom for the entirety of the op’s life. In that case how much does labor and raising s child cost?

If we wish to connect the rent to the extra guests I suppose we can add on a host of things and for some reason I think the op might come up a little on the short side here…

The issues are seperate.