Find it hard to see God as loving?

[Gavroche]

Hoping someone might have some words to say about this. My faith life has not been easy, it’s been a rocky road, and I feel like it’s my hardest cross to bear. I really feel like I’ve endured a lot of psychological damage from trying to cope with the stresses of living a life in accordance with Church teaching.

One of the central points to what makes this so difficult to me is that it is very hard for me to see God as loving.

I’ve been told about the mercy of God over and over again but I can’t reconcile this with the “other side” of God that so often gets ignored.

The God that will condemn someone to an eternity of the suffering for a single sin if it meets the requirements for a mortal sin, even if it’s an entertained sinful thought. It’s just so hard to see justification in this, I try to submit myself to Church teaching but I just don’t get why God makes the “rules” this way, I don’t understand what often seems like brutal harshness to me from an emotional perspective. It’s honestly terrifying, how could anyone who believes this NOT be terrified?

I just don’t understand the apparent chasm in my mind between these two points, a God who is willing to forgive any offense, but a God who is also willing to condemn based on a single offense.

With this reality I have no peace of mind, my faith is often in a very compromised position because I feel like I can’t trust God. There’s two faces of God in my mind that seem so opposed, the God who condemns, and the God who forgives. I want to be close to God, I want to live a good life, but when God seems sometimes merciful and sometimes cruel in my mind, it’s frightening to live with this. Any good words or advice appreciated.

 

[LethalMouse]

Quote:

I’m going slowly, slowly towards eternity. … I’m going with two suitcases: one contains my sins and the other, which is much heavier, contains the infinite merits of Jesus Christ. When I appear before the judgment seat of God, I will cover my ugly suitcase with the merits of Jesus and Our Lady and I will say to our eternal Father: “Now judge what you see.” Oh, I’m sure I won’t be sent away! Then I’ll turn toward St. Peter and I’ll say to him: “Close the door because I’m staying here.”

------St. Josephine Bakhita

I like to think of things in these terms: The prim and proper atonement for mortal sins and such as the Church presents them is the true path and the “Highway to Heaven”

Whereas one could cut through the wilderness and still get there…the issue is a matter of taking a chance vs driving right in. The wilderness path may/may not get you to heaven, but to think God is as condemning as some tend to is not quite right either.

 

[sudy]

God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.
God gives us the power to become children of God.
Jesus came to us as an example of how to live our lives, and he gave his life for us and suffered such a terrible death for our sake, and in doing so he conquered death for us.
Come to me, all you who labour and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart and I will give you rest. For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.

There is an abundance of love and mercy in the Scriptures.

Jesus said to us, ‘if you love me, keep my commandments.’ He explained that we are to love God and to love to love our neighbour as ourself. And this is how we avoid sinning.

But what is love? Here’s what 1 Corinthians 13 says: Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.

Sin is opposed to love. There’s very real damage caused by all sin, especially as it’s what distances us from God. It wounds us and it goes against ones own conscience.

God wants us to break with sin, and he gives us the tools to do this. When God’s message reaches us, we’re to turn out backs on sin and to follow Christ as well as we can. As our faith grows, we start to see how damaging sin actually is … and we begin seeing it’s ugliness. You need to understand that we start with baby steps, placing our trust in God. Our faith grows over time, it’s not an instant thing. If we stop resisting and abandon ourselves to God, he really will help us and, the more we avoid sin, the easier it gets.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm << It’s my bedtime but here’s what the catechism says about sin. I think it would help you if you try to more fully understand what sin actually is and how damaging it is.

Try to remember that God is love and rich in mercy. I recommend talking things over with your priest as he would explain things to you much better and will be a great source of comfort for you.

 

[SilverShadow22]

The thing to remember is that God does not, in the sense you stated, condemn.

Hell is a self-made torment. God can’t force anyone to choose Him. A deliberate sin (and remaining in that state) is deliberately turning away from Him.

Those in Hell do not WANT Heaven. They cannot be brought there. They could not bear the very presence of God. They hate God and themselves, and Hell is a place of their own making, and own choosing.

God respects our decisions, even as He mourns them.

No one goes to Hell for one sin. And no one goes to Hell for dying before making it to confession. If you’re sorry, and were going to go to confession, but don’t make it through no fault of your own, that counts as going.

God is not cruel. I often think He doesn’t care, but that’s not really true, either. Mostly I think He left me on my own. Every parent has to throw the child out sometime.

 

[fred_conty]

Just look at a crucifix. Does that look like he doesn’t love you?
The longer you look the more you know.

 

[Betuchan]

Those in Hell do not WANT Heaven. They cannot be brought there. They could not bear the very presence of God. They hate God and themselves, and Hell is a place of their own making, and own choosing.

No one goes to Hell for one sin. And no one goes to Hell for dying before making it to confession.

As much as I would like to agree with what you said (would be nice if it was true) I’m not so sure, reading Saints visions of hell paint a very different story. St Faustina is a very good example. And yes people do and can go to hell for one sin.

 

[mikekle]

As much as I would like to agree with what you said (would be nice if it was true) I’m not so sure, reading Saints visions of hell paint a very different story. St Faustina is a very good example. And yes people do and can go to hell for one sin.

Those visions are more than likely not literal either, look at how symbolic the descriptions are.

If God does not ‘punish’ anyone for not choosing him and his way, her vision of hell would seem to contradict that too, if its a big place filled with terrible, painful tortures, that is most certainly being punished for not making the ‘right’ choice.

 

[LethalMouse]

As much as I would like to agree with what you said (would be nice if it was true) I’m not so sure, reading Saints visions of hell paint a very different story. St Faustina is a very good example.** And yes people do and can go to hell for one sin.**

Since you know for sure who is and is not in Hell, could you give us all a running attendance sheet? I am sure we would all like to verify family members and such.

 

[Eichelbaum]

Perhaps the following might be of some help: cuf.org/FileDownloads/hell.pdf.

Also, if you want to do some deeper reading, a wonderful work on all of this is by Garrigou-Lagrange, most pertinently this section.

 

[SilverShadow22]

As much as I would like to agree with what you said (would be nice if it was true) I’m not so sure, reading Saints visions of hell paint a very different story. St Faustina is a very good example. And yes people do and can go to hell for one sin.

I’m getting what I said FROM the saints. It may have been Theresa of Avila that was allowed to go and bring a soul from Hell to Heaven. They begged to go back. They couldn’t bear Heaven.

The only thing those in Hell may regret is ignorance. Or misunderstanding what it means to be holy. But everyone in Hell is there by their own choice, by choosing themselves over what is right. And deep, deep down, everyone knows, basically, what is right. Everyone knows it’s a better thing to choose others over ourselves, but those who don’t know why it’s better simply choose not to care.

Maybe someone goes to hell over one sin done repeatedly. But no, I still don’t believe anyone goes to Hell for a single sin, unless that sin be final impenitence. If you kill the grace in your soul, there’s going to be a heck of a lot more than one sin forthcoming.

I’ve read repeatedly from reliable sources that thinking of Hell as a place is incorrect. It is a state of mind. You choose it when you die, and it is irreversible at the final judgment.

This may or may not be doctrine, but I’ve a notion that at the moment of death, God strips away all confusion and misconception and lets you see, in a single, blinding instant, the choice before you. Right and wrong. A choice without mitigating factors. Full informed consent. And if your life has conformed you to selfishly serve only yourself, you will reject God and become incapable of bearing his presence. And if your life has conformed you to want God, even if you’ve been bad at it so far, then you get Purgatory, and eventually, Heaven.

This is how, in my mind, I imagine a just God may act. I know it may not be doctrine, but I don’t think there’s anything against it, either, (This would be if you didn’t die in a state of mortal sin. Which, without informed consent, may or may not be present even if what you did wrong was very serious.)

 

[Betuchan]

Since you know for sure who is and is not in Hell, could you give us all a running attendance sheet? I am sure we would all like to verify family members and such.

Well that was unnecessarily rude and sarcastic. I am very disappointed having that come from a Catholic forum/person.

I think it is dangerous to settle for anything less than 100% and while we never can achieve that as we are human we should still strive for that. Saying “I adhere to 99% of God’s rules” and expect that will not send you to hell is a very dangerous notion.

These very forums talk about how a single sin can put your soul in serious danger. A perfect example is many catholics don’t like or choose to ignore church teaching on contraception. I have seen many people here say those people while they may be very good at not sinning in any other way are still committing a major mortal sin by contracepting. And any unrepentant mortal sin (most likely they would be as they continue to do so) would mean hell. Is that not correct? I’m really unsure why I am having to defend such a seemingly obvious church teaching?

Anyway it seems my post has ruffled some feathers and that was by no means my intent

 

[LethalMouse]

Well that was unnecessarily rude and sarcastic. I am very disappointed having that come from a Catholic forum/person.

I think it is dangerous to settle for anything less than 100% and while we never can achieve that as we are human we should still strive for that. Saying “I adhere to 99% of God’s rules” and expect that will not send you to hell is a very dangerous notion.

These very forums talk about how a single sin can put your soul in serious danger. A perfect example is many catholics don’t like or choose to ignore church teaching on contraception. I have seen many people here say those people while they may be very good at not sinning in any other way are still committing a major mortal sin by contracepting. And any unrepentant mortal sin (most likely they would be as they continue to do so) would mean hell. Is that not correct? I’m really unsure why I am having to defend such a seemingly obvious church teaching?

Anyway it seems my post has ruffled some feathers and that was by no means my intent

Firstly sarcasn is not a sin

Secondly your 100 vs 99… yeah I said the same thing with my wilderness vs highway metaphor so we agree in theory. but you were all high and mighty on your earlier post inviting upon you the wrath of my sarcasm…

Thirdly yes/no… as in many cases I would argue many if not most of these people truly believe their idea…ie: mental limits = ignorance.

And we do not know their true heart. Some to hell? Probably. All BC users to hell? Probably not.
The only thing I kniw for sure is that idk if they are/are not going to hell

But I was hoping you did… seriously as far as I understand things there is probably a 80% chance most of my loved ones who have died are in hell. I can only hoope that the ignorance factor is big and the whole mercy of God. Plus hopefully just purgatory… I figure that’s were I am going for a while.

 

[Gavroche]

But I was hoping you did… seriously as far as I understand things there is probably a 80% chance most of my loved ones who have died are in hell. I can only hoope that the ignorance factor is big and the whole mercy of God. Plus hopefully just purgatory… I figure that’s were I am going for a while.

This is one of the things that just shocks me though, to even imagine the thought that those who learn more about God’s laws seem to be at a greater risk of Hell due to lack of ignorance and so lack of excuse when they mess up, combined with the thought that one’s ignorance is the reason why God chooses to have mercy? I just can’t seem to make sense of this, the idea that ignorance might be the reason so many people avoid Hell, that the salvation of so many depends on them not knowing the Truth and not knowing God in this life, it just seems an incredibly strange thought to comprehend.

Like I find it hard to even spread the faith now because it’s like there are so many reasons people have for NOT believing that I can’t seem to give a compelling reason why they SHOULD believe over their objections.

Many atheists or non-Christians see our conception of God as cruel and I just don’t know how to respond to this, like they say that God will let someone suffer for an eternity for having a single sexual fantasy and yet they’ll say even sinful humans won’t wish that suffering on someone for things like serial murder. This is enough for them to consider God to be not good, or loving, or merciful, and I just don’t know how to respond to this sort of thinking, it’s getting to me, and it’s really assaulting my faith I think

 

[JimR-OCDS]

As much as I would like to agree with what you said (would be nice if it was true) I’m not so sure, reading Saints visions of hell paint a very different story. St Faustina is a very good example. And yes people do and can go to hell for one sin.

This is because this is the context of when the Saints lived.

Most of their understanding of hell, came from Dante’s Inferno, which is a classic work, but fiction.

Hell is real, but God does not send souls to hell, per Pope John Paul II. They go there on their own because they reject God.

Salvation isn’t about those who had the most will power made it there, its about God’s mercy, love and desire for us to be with Him in heaven and he desired it so much, that he became man in Jesus Christ to make it happen.

Catholics are so hung up on sin management, that we’ve become a community of individuals trying to avoid angering a tyrannical God who keeps a lists and checks it twice for any flaw which he can damn us to hell for all eternity.

We missed Jesus message of God’s desire for mercy and forgiveness.

The OP is frustrated because he has the distorted idea about sin, hell and forgiveness.

I would suggest he start reading the contemporary works that are available by various Catholic authors.

Remember, as the Catechism says, “Only God Forgives Sin.”

Just turn to Him and ask for forgiveness.

Lastly, follow what Pope Francis is saying in this year of mercy as he show us the reality of who God is.

Jim