Finding God's Church

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Theophilus76

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I grew up protestant, and am currently in a local RCIA program where I’m giving serious consideration to joining the Catholic church. I’ve read books, listened to podcasts, video presentations, debates, and read articles looking into Catholic teachings and claims. I’ve tried to take a balanced approach, finding arguments for and against from those supporting each viewpoint. Each side says they take biblical passages in context while the other side twists a passage to thier liking. Each side claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit (mostly protestants). Rarely does one side fully understand the other side, which makes me wonder if that presenter really cares about understanding an opposing viewpoint (I’ve found this occurs mostly among protestants). I’ve even contacted ministers I knew growing up to give me reasons not to join the Catholic church. I admit, I find the arguments for the Catholic church more convincing than those against.

When recalling much of what I’ve learned yesterday, this question struck me: is this how God intends me to discover His church? This will determine how I explain to myself and my family how to view and understand God; how to please Him, and spend eternity with Him. Does it all come down to which arguments resonate most given my reasoning skills? What if my wife comes to a different conclusion after hearing the same arguments? What if my logic skills are flawed, or underdeveloped?

You see, I’m using a human skill that is suspect to be flawed by sin and fleshly desires to answer a supernatural question which in turn answers things beyond my comprehension.
 
The Catholic Church is also led by the Holy Spirit, and so are you. Pray and do not worry, He will lead the way.
 
I agree with KrazyKat.

I’d also like to add… it’s all about the question of authority.

I Have a great answer for you if you have the time to listen to this. This is a post from a catholic site that sells (VERY cheaply) catholic teaching materials. This site that I’m directing to you below is a free online listening version of a talk by a well known catholic apologist (who happens to have been a protestant pastor) ANSWERING THE EXACT QUESTION you are asking here. It teaches who has the authority by Christ to teach. HIGHLY, HIGHLY urge you to listen to this brother! You can buy a free copy of this and lots of other catholic stuff on this site.

If you have any other questions…don’t hesitate!
Good luck on your journey.
 
KrazyKat said:
The Catholic Church is also led by the Holy Spirit, and so are you. Pray and do not worry, He will lead the way.
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I agree.

The Holy Spirit led me back to worship Him at Mass with the community of faithful. It was there, at Mass, where He would speak to me in a very personal way thru Scripture.

Every time, the priest would stand and hold up the Gospel of Jesus, I would weep and it would seem thru Scripture God would speak to me in a very personal way or the Homily would seem to be written just for me. Sometimes, I would even prep myself before and say ok your not going to cry this time. It never worked, so I just started stuffing a tissue into each pocket.

10 years later, again, the Holy Spirit would lead me to a place that I vowed I would never enter again, the confessional. It was there my relationship with God was restored and with His Church - I learned that over the course of many years of repenting silently to God, I never really knew if He really forgave me or not - I kept wondering, Well if God really forgives me then why do God and I keep having this same conversation about that one thing? It was upon hearing the words of His priest forever, “Your sins are absolved” - that I really knew that I was.

I used to go to Mass out of obligation, now I go because I want to. I’m Catholic because I receive Jesus in a way that I can’t in any other church on earth. Amen to that.

Some helpful sites:

olgcparish.net/education/true_magnificence.html

youtube.com/watch?v=jBEsrcF9SGg

youtube.com/watch?v=EXIWMh7v3Kg

Peace in your journey.
 
Theophilus76 said:
I grew up protestant, and am currently in a local RCIA program where I’m giving serious consideration to joining the Catholic church. I’ve read books, listened to podcasts, video presentations, debates, and read articles looking into Catholic teachings and claims. I’ve tried to take a balanced approach, finding arguments for and against from those supporting each viewpoint. Each side says they take biblical passages in context while the other side twists a passage to thier liking. Each side claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit (mostly protestants). Rarely does one side fully understand the other side, which makes me wonder if that presenter really cares about understanding an opposing viewpoint (I’ve found this occurs mostly among protestants). I’ve even contacted ministers I knew growing up to give me reasons not to join the Catholic church. I admit, I find the arguments for the Catholic church more convincing than those against.

When recalling much of what I’ve learned yesterday, this question struck me: is this how God intends me to discover His church? This will determine how I explain to myself and my family how to view and understand God; how to please Him, and spend eternity with Him. Does it all come down to which arguments resonate most given my reasoning skills? What if my wife comes to a different conclusion after hearing the same arguments? What if my logic skills are flawed, or underdeveloped?

You see, I’m using a human skill that is suspect to be flawed by sin and fleshly desires to answer a supernatural question which in turn answers things beyond my comprehension.
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God is calling many home these days. Trust in the Lord. He will lead both of you to the truth.
Just got through reading “Rome Sweet Home”. Your situation sounds similar to
Scott and Kimberly Hahn
 
Theophilus76 said:
Does it all come down to which arguments resonate most given my reasoning skills . . . flawed by sin . . . to answer a supernatural question . . .
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Excellent question.

It is finally a matter of faith, a gift, and we should never forget this; but faith doesn’t operate in a vacuum.

Suppose you made up your mind *not *to follow what seems to you the most reasonable course. What would you do then?

I don’t think we should always ignore feelings, intuitions, gut reactions, etc; but reason should be in charge (subordinated of course to God, and illumined by faith). God gave us intellects for a reason.
 
Ad_Orientem said:
Suppose you made up your mind *not *to follow what seems to you the most reasonable course. What would you do then?
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I’ve considered this; just stay where I’m at and stop looking into catholic claims so my mind will quit thinking about it. I can’t. I already know too much. I’m being drawn like a magnet, slowly, but surely, toward the church and I can’t shake it. But my wife, parents, extended family, and friends aren’t. They say I’m mistaken, lost, confused and even unstable. I don’t see how something so plain to me is so patently rejected by them and others who passionately argue non-catholic views.

Is this simply a choice? After hearing debates on sola scriptura, for instance, I truly feel protestants have simply made a choice to only follow what’s explicitly in the bible based on what could be read into various passages (implicitly). Am I simply making a choice, too, by mentally accenting to the Catholic definition of the deposit of faith? Could my thought process be clouded by my zeal to say, “Ah, I’ve finally found it. Now this is something I can get behind.”
 
Theophilus76 said:
…I admit, I find the arguments for the Catholic church more convincing than those against.

When recalling much of what I’ve learned yesterday, this question struck me: is this how God intends me to discover His church? This will determine how I explain to myself and my family how to view and understand God; how to please Him, and spend eternity with Him. Does it all come down to which arguments resonate most given my reasoning skills? What if my wife comes to a different conclusion after hearing the same arguments? What if my logic skills are flawed, or underdeveloped?

You see, I’m using a human skill that is suspect to be flawed by sin and fleshly desires to answer a supernatural question which in turn answers things beyond my comprehension.
Click to expand...
Theophilus, I do not get the feeling your logic skills are flawed or underdeveloped. In fact, each time I see a post from you I am struck by how logical your thinking is. You should rely on the gifts the Lord has given you even if they are not perfect.

Remember, David chose to go after Goliath with a slingshot rather than the more sophisticated weaponry that was available to him. He was gifted with the slingshot and he had honed that skill to the best of his ability. Use the talents the Lord has given you to the best of your ability. Do not fear – the Holy Spirit will work through all of that.
 
Theophilus76 said:
I grew up protestant, and am currently in a local RCIA program where I’m giving serious consideration to joining the Catholic church. I’ve read books, listened to podcasts, video presentations, debates, and read articles looking into Catholic teachings and claims. I’ve tried to take a balanced approach, finding arguments for and against from those supporting each viewpoint. Each side says they take biblical passages in context while the other side twists a passage to thier liking. Each side claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit (mostly protestants). Rarely does one side fully understand the other side, which makes me wonder if that presenter really cares about understanding an opposing viewpoint (I’ve found this occurs mostly among protestants). I’ve even contacted ministers I knew growing up to give me reasons not to join the Catholic church. I admit, I find the arguments for the Catholic church more convincing than those against.

When recalling much of what I’ve learned yesterday, this question struck me: is this how God intends me to discover His church? This will determine how I explain to myself and my family how to view and understand God; how to please Him, and spend eternity with Him. Does it all come down to which arguments resonate most given my reasoning skills? What if my wife comes to a different conclusion after hearing the same arguments? What if my logic skills are flawed, or underdeveloped?

You see, I’m using a human skill that is suspect to be flawed by sin and fleshly desires to answer a supernatural question which in turn answers things beyond my comprehension.
Click to expand...
Here is an answer for you. God is so simple our minds cannot comprehend him. Remember you are called by the Holy Spirit and trust him as a small child trust its parents. Have a child like faith and do not worry about the Rest. The Holy Spirit took you this far and you “let go and let God you will see how far he will take you.” God Bless!!!
 
And let me add that the more you get into this the more you will begin to see the lack of logic in many of the Protestant interpretation of scriptures…things are read in isolation and passages that are inconvenient are overlooked. I do not mean to be negative, but this is how it is. Your family is likely reading everything through the lens of what they were taught as children. In all seriousness, you will find that you hand them something like John 6 and say it seems so clear that Jesus was saying he is truly present in the bread and wine during communion. And, they will give you a convoluted argument that makes no sense. And, you will wonder, how can this be when they believe in sola scriptura? Well it is because they are justifying what they have been taught rather than using logic or critical thinking. This is what happened to me when I converted. It will be difficult, if not impossible, for you to change their minds. Don’t worry about that or put any stock in what they say about you being lost, confused, or unstable. The Holy Spirit will enlighten them if and when it is necessary. Pray for them and most especially for your wife to see the light so all of this will be easier.
 
Theophilus76 said:
I plan to. Others have PM’ed me with links as well, but I can’t view/listen to them on my Android, and IT restrictions keep me from them at work.
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You’re in for a ride my friend. God has something in store 4 u:)
 
Theophilus76 said:
I’ve considered this; just stay where I’m at and stop looking into catholic claims so my mind will quit thinking about it. I can’t. I already know too much. I’m being drawn like a magnet, slowly, but surely, toward the church and I can’t shake it. But my wife, parents, extended family, and friends aren’t. They say I’m mistaken, lost, confused and even unstable. I don’t see how something so plain to me is so patently rejected by them and others who passionately argue non-catholic views.

Is this simply a choice?
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Well, you are looking; you seem to indicate that they are not. I think looking and being open is the choice. You can seldom convince anyone who doesn’t want to be convinced.
Theophilus76 said:
After hearing debates on sola scriptura, for instance, I truly feel protestants have simply made a choice to only follow what’s explicitly in the bible based on what could be read into various passages (implicitly). Am I simply making a choice, too, by mentally accenting to the Catholic definition of the deposit of faith? Could my thought process be clouded by my zeal to say, “Ah, I’ve finally found it. Now this is something I can get behind.”
Click to expand...
Perhaps. My opinion on sola scriptura is that it would not guide me anyway. If you choose one Protestant denomination or another, they both have deposits of faith, namely the way that they have interpreted scripture. If there were a clear consensus on the meaning of scripture, then one could count on scripture alone. Since there’s not, it has always seemed to me that there would need to be a deposit of faith that would honestly proclaim the need for scripture to be explained… which has pointed me towards Catholicism. If I decided that sola scriptura was correct, then I still wouldn’t be able to choose a Protestant denomination.

I was also raised Catholic, although I was never serious about religion until coming back after several years of atheism, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I am surely biased towards Catholicism. But I think it is the right choice.

Keep searching honestly. God bless.
 
Theophilus76 said:
I’ve considered this; just stay where I’m at and stop looking into catholic claims so my mind will quit thinking about it. . . .
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That’s not what I meant. My point is, one cannot help but form judgments; it’s how the mind works.
Theophilus76 said:
Is this simply a choice?
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Yes it is a choice; but not in a vacuum. Our moves toward God are always preceded and accompanied by grace, and they are directed by reason.
Theophilus76 said:
. . . Could my thought process be clouded by my zeal . . .
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No one is totally free from such influences. You will never have 100% certainty. Trust God, use your head, and do your best. What more could he expect of you?
 
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