Finding "good" liturgy in different cities?

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Hi,

I’m wondering if there is a good online resource for finding “good” (and I know that the term is very subjective) liturgy in various cities? By “good,” I don’t necessarily mean Tridentine – I’ve seen those websites – but even Novus Ordo parishes that are to be commended for being relatively orthodox, resisting liturgical misadventures, etc.

Again, I realize there is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes “good” liturgy, but I’m not asking for “perfect.” Just wanted to know if there’s a place online to search by city/state to find parishes that are regarded for these qualities. (And no, I’m not parish shopping; just interested in knowing where I might be able to attend on certain occasions…)
 
The answer is a qualified “no”. There are just a few sites out there that have reviewed local churches, but none are very extensive and tend to be just the travels and experiences of individuals who may or may not be looking for the same things as yourself.

Maybe that might be a project for someone to undertake, a lot of folks do travel nowadays. I’ve heard others bemoan the lack of information of this kind out there.

In order to actually put something like this together, you’d need to have a computer expert to sort the information, a standard form for church goers to report on so the information is more or less uniform,and be able to both get enough people to make reports.

I don’t know how feasible it could be to do it, the country is pretty vast.
 
Pax vobiscum!

Go to the website of the diocese you will be visiting and look at their church’s websites. That should give you at least some idea of what their liturgies are like, especially if they have a photos section.

In Christ,
Rand
 
Kielbasi said:
The answer is a qualified “no”. There are just a few sites out there that have reviewed local churches, but none are very extensive and tend to be just the travels and experiences of individuals who may or may not be looking for the same things as yourself.

Maybe that might be a project for someone to undertake, a lot of folks do travel nowadays. I’ve heard others bemoan the lack of information of this kind out there.

In order to actually put something like this together, you’d need to have a computer expert to sort the information, a standard form for church goers to report on so the information is more or less uniform,and be able to both get enough people to make reports.

I don’t know how feasible it could be to do it, the country is pretty vast.
Click to expand...
And don’t forget to include Holy Days of Obligation, which twice alluded me either while vacationing or travelling on business. 🙂 Mass times are often different than those of Sundays.
 
Rand_Al_Thor said:
Pax vobiscum!

Go to the website of the diocese you will be visiting and look at their church’s websites. That should give you at least some idea of what their liturgies are like, especially if they have a photos section.

In Christ,
Rand
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Excellent advice! I’ve used this method extensively and while not perfect it tends to be very helpful.
 
Good luck trying to determine the orthodoxy of a parish by its website. Last year my husband and I were trying to find a parish that would have a Mass that was licit as well as valid. We decided to attend Mass at the only parish in the area that gave children the option to make their first confession before they received their first Holy Communion. (The other parishes in the neighborhood delayed confession for until fourth grade.) When we got to Mass, we were shocked to find a woman preaching. She then shook hands with people as they left, standing next to the priest. The next time we visited that area, we went to another church that had a large poster advertising a talk by Father Corapi prominently displayed. We thought that we would have better luck there. At the Mass we attended at that parish, the monsignor and the entire congregation used the term “Christian” instead of Catholic in the creed! We now make our travel plans to avoid being in that diocese on a Sunday or holy day of obligation. The only option that I can suggest is to go to the earliest Mass that you can find. “Creative” people must like to sleep in, and I have found that the early Masses are more likely to be by the book.
 
The difficulty is that there are those who would only list parishes which fit their view of wht “good” means, and unless you had a pretty thorough definition of what the lister meant by “good”, you would be open to wide swings. Too much is left to interpretation. A simple fact - such as the Missal of 1962, or rite of Paul 6th, are not open to interpretation. “Good” is a value judgement, not a factual judgement.
 
It would be great if somebody could start a website database listing orthodox parishes in various cities. These would be deemed orthodox by a certain, established set of criteria (suggestions?), and there would be absolutely no uncharitable reference to parishes, priests, dioceses, or bishops who fall outside these criteria. This could be a tremendous resource for travelling Catholics, as well as an impetus for more parishes to want to join the list.

A common problem that the site would have to account for is that priests and bishops are transferred frequently in many places, putting the parish’s orthodoxy at the mercy of the successor. For example, somebody says that St. John Smith parish in Gotham City runs by the book, but after one year under a new pastor, they have liturgical dancers and homilies from Sister Ivana Chasuble.
 
One approach would be to simply go the cathedral in the city.

From the 2007 Apostolic Exhortation Sacramentum Caritatis:
“**The Bishop, celebrant par excellence **
39. While it is true that the whole People of God participates in the eucharistic liturgy, a correct ars celebrandi necessarily entails a specific responsibility on the part of those who have received the sacrament of Holy Orders. Bishops, priests, and deacons, each according to his proper rank, must consider the celebration of the liturgy as their principal duty (116). Above all, this is true of the Diocesan Bishop: as “the chief steward of the mysteries of God in the particular Church entrusted to his care, he is the moderator, promoter, and guardian of the whole of its liturgical life” (117). This is essential for the life of the particular Church, not only because communion with the Bishop is required for the lawfulness of every celebration within his territory, but also because he himself is the celebrant par excellence within his Diocese (118). It is his responsibility to ensure unity and harmony in the celebrations taking place in his territory. Consequently the Bishop must be “determined that the priests, the deacons, and the lay Christian faithful grasp ever more deeply the genuine meaning of the rites and liturgical texts, and thereby be led to an active and fruitful celebration of the Eucharist” (119). **I would ask that every effort be made to ensure that the liturgies which the Bishop celebrates in his Cathedral are carried out with complete respect for the ars celebrandi, so that they can be considered an example for the entire Diocese **(120).”
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html

The Ceremonial of Bishops also encourages this, for example, talking about instituted lectors as “the reader” it has:
“31. … Whenever necessary, the reader should see to the preparation of any members of the faithful who may be appointed to proclaim the readings from Sacred Scripture in liturgical celebrations. But in celebrations presided over by the bishop it is fitting that readers formally instituted proclaim the readings and, if several readers are present, they should divide the readings accordingly.”
(Ceremonial of Bishops, Liturgical Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1818-9, page 25).

In my experience there is a good chance this will not happen. But as the Pope wrote it is important that the bishop’s Mass become a good example for the diocese.
 
Cavaille-Coll said:
It would be great if somebody could start a website database listing orthodox parishes in various cities. These would be deemed orthodox by a certain, established set of criteria (suggestions?), and there would be absolutely no uncharitable reference to parishes, priests, dioceses, or bishops who fall outside these criteria. This could be a tremendous resource for travelling Catholics, as well as an impetus for more parishes to want to join the list.

A common problem that the site would have to account for is that priests and bishops are transferred frequently in many places, putting the parish’s orthodoxy at the mercy of the successor. For example, somebody says that St. John Smith parish in Gotham City runs by the book, but after one year under a new pastor, they have liturgical dancers and homilies from Sister Ivana Chasuble.
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Again, and not trying to be insistent, but who is doing the definiton of “orthodox”? Just reading the threads in this website wold show that there are those who define “orthodox” much more strictly than others
 
A few thoughts, and an anecdote.

The go-to-Cathedral rule will not work in Los Angeles. Yet.

Many parishes have their bulletins online. They are a good indicator of what the parish is like.

A few years ago, on account of my mother-in-law’s 70th birthday, we had a family reunion in Kentucky, and we were to attend Mass at the parish my in-laws helped fund the construction of, decades ago. I checked online and then grumbled that the parish appeared to be run by a female pastoral associate, or whatever it was called. Sure enough, we got to Mass, and there was a priest … in cassock, of all things … holding the door open for us. It was a terrific Mass, and in the discussion afterwards we learned the parish was just taken over by the Fathers of Mercy.

sacredheartrussellville.org/index.html
fathersofmercy.com/

I swear, where ever my mother-in-law goes, a squadron of angels is with her!
 
Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts on this topic. I assumed it was a shot in the dark, but I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t missing something that everyone else already knew about.

I agree completely that it would be nearly impossible to establish criteria defining an “orthodox” parish, with some making the list and others not. Instead, and as inappropriate as this analogy might be, I was wondering if there were something akin to a “movie review” site, a place that presents facts (not opinion) about parishes. Again, personal opinions would probably cloud the facts, so it’s not likely to be an unbiased account.

It’s true that reading bulletins and visiting websites can tell you a little about a parish, but in my experience it’s still difficult to ascertain the character of the place even after many visits. Of course, things change. The pastor at our old parish is stepping down and is going to be replaced by – you guessed it – a lay “spiritual director” or somesuch baloney. (Which I’m sure can be supported by canon law somehow, but just seems wrong on so many levels…)

Having said all this, and not wishing to take this thread in a different direction, is there anyone out there who might like to share some personal experiences of “good” liturgy (i.e., relatively orthodox teaching, or few liturgical abuses, or good music, or any combination of those things) in the greater Los Angeles/Orange County, California areas??? I’m not asking for anything spectacular – in fact, I’m not leaving my parish – just a place that might offer the occasional refuge from the “God loves everybody and don’t change who you are!” homilies and bad guitar music… The Triduum liturgy was especially disappointing this year, for some reason…
 
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