Finding out to late

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100% agreed it is not a sin if you did not know. And under most circumstances, once full knowledge is received, the behaviour must stop. However… this is not a clear cut situation. You can’t just stop being married to someone.

I would seek information from a priest. But not the one who told you your husband didn’t really love you. He was just a very uncharitable man.

CM
 
This is kinda off the subject but something you said that really interested me. Why would you NEVER like a person your mother might remarry. I’ve heard that before but never understood that. Wouldn’t you want to see your mother happy. The other person didn’t take your dad away, as he passed. Please don’t feel you have to answer this I just thought perhaps the way you feel is exactly how my step children feel. I love them. They are flesh if the man I love. I would never hurt them and I am nothing but kind to them even at times when I just want to cry from their rudeness. I wish I had a better understanding so if you can share your thoughts I would sincerely appreciate it.
 
So I have one more question…I’ve always believed that a sin is NOT a sin if you do not know its a sin however once you realize it is a sin then you must confess and receive absolution. Yes we both have believed we have a Catholic marriage blessed by God but NOW I know the church does not validate marriages with a prenup UNLESS it is approved by the tribunal. Therefore that’s the problem Im having, and why I now feel Im living in sin and in the eyes of the church my wedding is null and void. Am I looking at this incorrectly. I’ve always been a rule follower and needed that pat on the back that says I did the right thing. I know that sounds crazy coming from a 57 year old but it is the truth.
There is a difference between an action being morally wrong and an action being something for which you are culpable. As for the prenuptial agreement, you’d have to have a tribunal look at it to say whether or not it violates the elements necessary for a valid marriage.

At any rate, marriages enjoy the presumption of validity until proven otherwise. Unless you went into this marriage knowing that you were withholding or did not have one of the necessary elements, you are not living in sin.
 
Oh dear…I thought it was about protecting his past and the assets due his children if you died (or divorced), but this is much worse! This could certainly be considered an impediment to a valid marriage.

But why on earth did your attorney agree to it?
OP, why did your attorney agree to these conditions? You should get another attorney to review the agreement. I am not a lawyer but I do wonder if it would hold up in court, since it extends beyond the first marriage and children and into your new marriage to your husband. The terms sound quite unfair to you.

I also think you had a bad counselor. “Come back when you’re better!” DUH that’s why we’re here in the first place, because we CAN’T get better on our own! If the client is willing to come to the sessions, the counselor ought to have something to offer, not just “You’re dismissed!” In fact, I think that amounts to malpractice. Find another counselor.
 
You did not get expelled from school by having your marriage counsellor save you the expense of hearing the same thing over and over. You went to a professional who gave you as much help as you can use for now. That was very ethical of that counsellor to do! When you’ve used up the first batch of good advice–tried it and either found it helpful or wanting–then go get more help from a marriage counsellor, if you need it. In the meantime, I think you could use a batch of help for yourself. Just because your marriage counselling reached an impasse doesn’t mean that you couldn’t progress very nicely with some personal counselling.

On the topic of your unhappiness over the children: There gets to be a time when it is not your problem when someone else refuses to be happy with choices that aren’t theirs to make. If his children are rude to you, they’re choosing to be rude: maybe because they weren’t taught to have good manners or maybe because they know quite well how to act and choose not to do it. As for your husband being “too busy to handle it”…he may have had to get used to his children occasionally acting like little brats (particularly during their teen years, when a lot of us seem to lose our brains and close our hearts), and his coping mechanism may have been to just ignore their social aggressions. If this is how he dealt with their rudeness, it may be difficult for him to see how different the situation is for you. It may be, though, that they have been difficult since his wife died, and he sees their rudeness as an expression of grief, not as anything particular to you.

As for pleasing his children with a prenuptial or other legal agreement, that is only going to work if the money is really what they are jealous about. Regardless of what any of them say, that may not be it at all. It may be that they cannot handle the idea of anyone being intimate with their dad, let alone taking their mother’s place at his side at social events and so on. They may be angry because he has gone on with his life while they have not finished grieving her death. They may worry that you’re not going to bury him next to her, or they may have irrational and indistinct fears and jealousies that they couldn’t put their finger on if they wanted to. I don’t mean that a legitimate pre-nuptial agreement wasn’t a charitable and wise thing to do, provided it was an act of charity toward’s your husband’s children on your part and not an act of withholding on your husband’s part. I mean that you should not have expected that taking care of the money would take care of the feelings. Feelings do not work like that.

IOW, you are assuming that you know where their animosity comes from, but I don’t see how you can be sure that you do, no matter what they say. Yes, maybe they see your dad’s choice of someone very different than their mother as a rejection of the kind of wife their mother was. That is possible. OTOH, you can’t know that. You could seem her twin and might bring in a dowry that they stand to inherit that is far beyond their wildest dreams, and it might not made a bit of difference, because this may not be about you at all.

Were I you, I’d go with that: This is probably not about you. It is probably about their grief over the loss of their mother. In that case, you would do best to overlook their bad behavior and chalk it up to that, because that is a reason that rates a lot of sympathy, compassion, and gracious willingness to overlook failures from most of us. It has the advantage that they can deny it up and down and you could still be right on the money.

Go with that, then: This is not about you. This is not about your husband’s money. This is about the loss of their mother and the loss of their parent’s marriage. Give room to their rudeness as giving room for their grief, treat them graciously and fairly in all things, and you’ll be able to sleep soundly, no matter how they act. They may come around. They may never apologize, but they may come around, let go of their grief over their mother and their other expectations, and then be free to have good feelings towards you. We can only hope that they do, for their sakes even more than for yours.
 
Why would a man’s children dislike any woman who married their father after the death of his wife?

Because she is a constant reminder that their mother is no longer with them, and that their father is no longer married to her. Because, even though their mother is gone, it feels like their father has abandoned her memory by “replacing” her with someone who is nothing like her (not that anyone could really be just like she was). Because accepting his new wife feels like betraying their mother.

Logical? No. But feelings aren’t always logical. That said, it sounds like his kids just don’t want to deal with their own feelings and move past them, probably because it can be such a painful process. At the beginning, it’s easier to just blame the newcomer–and later, it’s easier to just keep on doing what they’re doing (disliking you), rather than admit they were/are wrong and change themselves. It’s not right or fair, I know, but it’s fairly common.

I understand feeling like he is putting his children first, but I think you may be reading too much into it because of the things your priest has told you. Your husband wants to be loved and respected for who he is, not for his money, just as you want to be loved and respected for who you are. Your words may sound to him as though you don’t trust him to provide for you. Do you trust him? Is he a good husband and a good provider?

Concerning how to handle it from this point, and whether you need confession, I agree with others who have suggested getting a second opinion from a different priest. Or perhaps a good spiritual director would be in order.

HTH!
 
EasterJoy, I could not disagree more. I believe it IS about the money, that is what the prenup covers, and the OP’s husband knew it then, and he knows it now. The kids want ALL of the money and won’t stand for the OP getting ANY of it. If there was no money involved, they might still be rude, but the pre-nup wouldn’t be in the mix. As it stands, they want ALL of the money, period.
 
This is kinda off the subject but something you said that really interested me. Why would you NEVER like a person your mother might remarry. I’ve heard that before but never understood that. Wouldn’t you want to see your mother happy. The other person didn’t take your dad away, as he passed. Please don’t feel you have to answer this I just thought perhaps the way you feel is exactly how my step children feel. I love them. They are flesh if the man I love. I would never hurt them and I am nothing but kind to them even at times when I just want to cry from their rudeness. I wish I had a better understanding so if you can share your thoughts I would sincerely appreciate it.
VBN55, I think it is very common for children (even adult children like me who are over 50 years old) to see parents as a unit rather than as two individuals. And children tend to hold on to the self-centric view that the parents exist because of the child rather than that the child exists because of the parents. So long as the parents are reasonably happily married, the children may really have no reason to see things differently. And so long as at least one parent lives in the home where the children grew up those children tend to think of that home as their home.

There are any number of events in the lives of children that force them to confront re-evaluate their self-centric view of their parents. But some children never have to do so until a parent wishes to remarry. If the child was still happily under the illusion that the parent exists for the child then remarriage is a big shock. Remarriage may be the first thing significant thing this parent has ever done for himself/herself rather than for the former family unit as a whole.

I suspect your step-children are holding on to the fantasy that your husband --their father-- is an extension of their mother. Is that fair to him or you? No. But it is what it is and I don’t think your husband wants them to change their viewpoint. Perhaps he has always related to the children through their mother and is continuing to have that sort of relationship with them. That is not fair to you either.
 
I can’t thank ALL OF YOU enough for helping me with this. I asked my husband the other night what did he think his kids would do if he said to them, here is what I owe you from your Mothers death but from this point on I will be sharing with my wife 50/50 and tearing up our prenup. My husband said, they would be upset and may never talk to me again! I said so in other words you are saying their love is conditional yet I signed a prenup giving up all my rights, can’t you see my love was UNCONDITIONAL? Now I know some of you have commented on it sounds like now I’ve changed my mind but that is NOT the case HOWEVER I am concerned about my stability and survival should he pass before me. With only six months of living in his home and then I need to move on (I do own a condo so I will have a roof over my head) if I live 20 more years can I really survive without having to go to work at 77 years old while his kids will be well taken care of.
 
VBN55, let me see if I understand correctly, because this is hard for me to wrap my head around. Are you saying that according to the prenup, if your husband dies before you, EVERYTHING that you two own will go to his children? Even things that you obtained after you married him? If that is the case, then that is monstrously unjust, and I even wonder if it would stand up in court.

But I can’t see how it could invalidate your marriage - if it only pertains to the issue of how the money is disposed of.
 
Yes that is what the prenup says they get everything. In my State anything prior to marriage would be that spouses anyway. That is a given so the only reason for a prenup would be to protect your future. I had no idea that it effected the validity of my marriage nut according to Cannon Law IT DOES! When I became concerned how would his children know what was things I brought into the marriage or gifts that he bought me (which I am free to take) and I said that I was afraid they would fight me saying if its in my dads house than its my dads, my husband told me IF I was that worried maybe I should box it and put in storage or bring down to the condo I owned prior to our marriage. After seven years of marriage I have offered him part ownership of property I own nut he says he wants that to go to my children but he does not want any of his properties EVEN ACCESSORIES to go to me. AND YES I STILL LOVE HIM
 
husband said, they would be upset and may never talk to me again! I said so in other words you are saying their love is conditional yet I signed a prenup giving up all my rights, can’t you see my love was UNCONDITIONAL?
Herein lies your problem. You have viewed and continue to view unconditional love as giving up rights and money. You made a foolish gesture to “prove” something that you cannot prove.
What you tried to demonstrate with the prenup is something that only a relationship with the children could demonstrate. I would not be surprised if the children lost a lot of respect for you just because you did something so foolish.

Bottom line, your immediate problem is not the prenup or the marriage but rather your relationship with your husband and his family. Your view on what it means to be a family and to be married needs to be adjusted. I suggest counseling. The broken relationships are the problem, not the contracts.
 
Just out of curiosity, what were the things the counsellor suggest he needs to do that he’s been too busy to get around to?

What do your children say about all of this? Are they at all concerned that their FIL might keep their family’s heirlooms if you die before he does? Do they get along well with your husband?
 
Herein lies your problem. You have viewed and continue to view unconditional love as giving up rights and money. You made a foolish gesture to “prove” something that you cannot prove.
What you tried to demonstrate with the prenup is something that only a relationship with the children could demonstrate. I would not be surprised if the children lost a lot of respect for you just because you did something so foolish.

Bottom line, your immediate problem is not the prenup or the marriage but rather your relationship with your husband and his family. Your view on what it means to be a family and to be married needs to be adjusted. I suggest counseling. The broken relationships are the problem, not the contracts.
Wow, you have just opened up a whole new can of worms for me to think about AND I mean that in a very nice way! You may very well have an EXCELLENT point!
 
I can’t thank ALL OF YOU enough for helping me with this. I asked my husband the other night what did he think his kids would do if he said to them, here is what I owe you from your Mothers death but from this point on I will be sharing with my wife 50/50 and tearing up our prenup. My husband said, they would be upset and may never talk to me again! I said so in other words you are saying their love is conditional yet I signed a prenup giving up all my rights, can’t you see my love was UNCONDITIONAL? Now I know some of you have commented on it sounds like now I’ve changed my mind but that is NOT the case HOWEVER I am concerned about my stability and survival should he pass before me. With only six months of living in his home and then I need to move on (I do own a condo so I will have a roof over my head) if I live 20 more years can I really survive without having to go to work at 77 years old while his kids will be well taken care of.
I am going to ask again, why did your attorney agree to this? You had bad advice if he advised you to sign. You gave away the store, so to speak. But I think you might need to get more legal advice. Take the copy of the prenup to another lawyer and see if it would actually hold up in court. Granted, if it came to that, the lawyers would profit and everything else would be destroyed because the children would probably fight you. The best thing is for you and your husband to get counseling and come to some kind of compromise.
 
Herein lies your problem. You have viewed and continue to view unconditional love as giving up rights and money. You made a foolish gesture to “prove” something that you cannot prove.
What you tried to demonstrate with the prenup is something that only a relationship with the children could demonstrate. I would not be surprised if the children lost a lot of respect for you just because you did something so foolish.

Bottom line, your immediate problem is not the prenup or the marriage but rather your relationship with your husband and his family. Your view on what it means to be a family and to be married needs to be adjusted. I suggest counseling. The broken relationships are the problem, not the contracts.
You cannot make someone like you or trust you, but if signing legal documents that favor them make them lose respect for her, they are some piece of work.

To take the part of the devil’s advocate, though, the “conditions” are different. The children see their father’s wealth–past, present, and future–as something to which they are entitled. Wrong, but they had that in their heads, and their father lets them think this. Their “condition” is that his marriage not cost them anything that they think belongs to them, including the future growth of his estate.

By giving up claim to that odd sense of entitlement, her condition is to not claim something she says she did not marry to get in the first place: her “condition” is that she is willing that the marriage not *enrich *her of something she didn’t have except by the marriage, anyway. Yes, the children are grasping, because they think their dad’s wealth belongs to them even though their dad is still very much alive and has every right to do what he wants with his own stuff, but to be fair: she is using “conditional” and “unconditional” to describe quite different “conditions”.

Now that she has been through thick and thin for 7 years with this fellow, she is thinking, “you know, it would really irk me if he dies and I find that my own assets aren’t enough to keep me out of poverty because his children were too grasping to miss so much as a salt shaker that belonged to a man who was both their dad and my husband”. Well, her “conditions” have changed, whether she likes to admit it or not. She’s not just being “enriched”; she has a lot into this marriage. Gee, that has a way of changing your outlook. IOW, I don’t think she has changed from charitable to grasping. I think she’s changed from having an unrealistic view of marriage to a realistic one. It is natural for spouses to care what happens to each other in the case of untimely death of one of them. Why, seven years into this marriage, does her husband still take this view?

The immediate problem is with her husband. The children are out of her control. I’d really suggest she get counselling of her own. If she wants to stay married, though, she had better pick her battles carefully. This whole situation is one big minefield, and her husband is not helping that.

BTW, there is a compromise that could be sought, here. Her husband could write an estate plan that puts at least part of his estate into a trust that will be available for his wife’s maintenence, should her own assets be exhausted during her lifetime. When she dies, the assets in the trust go to his children. The terms of such a trust could be very specific. If the children are going to get their nose out of shape because they have to wait for assets kept aside so that their dad’s second wife isn’t reduced to abject poverty, ol’ Dad needs to look at what that says about where his priorities need to lie. The wife might likewise consider such an arrangement. You’d have to talk to an attorney, but it might prove a lifesaver if one of them is sued into financial oblivion.

He might also write something that allows his wife to stay in their home until she dies as long as she likes after his death, after which the home becomes the property of his children. This will keep his children from having the locks changed on her during the funeral. These are all things that could be considered.
 
That does NOT mean he separates from his kids and you become the very center of his world.
They have one life. How does a person get more central than that, pray tell?
…my husband had not followed through with any suggestions that he agreed to. Each week he was just to busy to handle it. The counselor told us to come back once we made some progress. I felt like I had been expelled from school
You weren’t the one not doing your homework; your DH was.

BTW: What did your husband agree to do that he has failed to follow up on?
 
Also, keep in mind that the pre-nuptial agreement was not between you and his children, but between you and your husband. This is something he wanted to ensure before he married you, not something they had the power to put him up to…that is, no amount of manipulation on their part would constitute “forcing him to do it.” This was his decision that he got *you *to go along with. It is really none of his children’s business, because it is not their money yet. Rather, when you talk about this, approach it remembering that you are still discussing your husband’s deep wishes. This is something that the two of you can continue to negotiate, if both of you have the desire to do that.

As you go through this, try to discern how each of you can help the other to satisfy your competing concerns. One thing I would agree right off the bat, though, is to keep your children and his out of the decision-making loop. Help him to do what he wants to do for them; that is the main thing, because obviously including them will not help things for anybody. Let each of you, however, insist that you are maintaining your own privacy yourself, and not inserting yourself between a parent and his or her child. If either of you think that there will be bad repercussions if one set of children knows what the estate plans are, then keep the estate plans to yourselves. That is priveleged information, and the privelege is yours (plural) to give or to not give.

PS The two of you do have a joint estate plan, correct? You may be able to solve your concerns about which “accessories” belong to the surviving spouse by making a list of things that belong to the children of each spouse, not to mention which accessories are to remain in the possession of the surviving spouse until the surviving spouse dies or remarries. That could make both of you more at peace.
 
This sounds like a very complicated situation (step families are like that, aren’t they :)?). It sounds like there are marriage problems as well as problems between the father/children and step parent/children. I married someone with children too, so I know how complicated it can get. First, all the emotions of everyone involved and next, all the practical things like wills, etc.

From what I read here, I suggest you get an attorney of your own and have the pre-nup reviewed. The terms sound unfair and you need to plan for your future. If your husband doesn’t get that, well then, so be it. You need to do what you need to do legally to be sure you are not destitute. The children will just have to deal with it. It is not unreasonable. If they get mad, let them. I like what someone said about visiting a lawyer for an estate plan. You can both do this (and will need to–you both have to sign).

Next, regarding the church stuff. Again, very complicated. If it was me, I’d put it aside for now and deal with the other stuff first. I don’t know enough about the catholic church laws to know what you should do, but the priest did marry you (even though he wishes he hadn’t) and now you are married. So that’s how it will be until someone changes it.

Finally, can you find some support for yourself? Do you have close friends you can talk to about this? Can you find your own counselor? I think it would be helpful if you had someone else to talk to and help you through this. I will say a prayer for you now too.
 
My husband said, they would be upset and may never talk to me again!.
Might I ask why they would even need to know what you and your husband do? You have no obligation to discuss your finances with your children. Get a fair will drawn up, even if you do not tear up the pre-nup, to protect you in the event of death, or insist the life insurance is upped to one million!
 
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