Finite vs Infinite

[expectthebest]

See if this logic makes sense to anyone:

Humans are finite beings. Although our souls are infinite, our free choice and ability to reason is based on a finite body. God is infinite. By definition, the finite cannot comprehend the full reality of the infinite. Therefore, we, as finite beings, cannot comprehend God except in a remedial way.

Heaven and hell are also infinite. The joy associated with one and the suffering associated with the other are also infinite. By the same logic described above, we, as finite beings do not have the ability to comprehend the infinity of Heaven or hell. As such, we cannot fully comprehend the the infinite results of our actions. Therefore, one could ask, is it justice to recieve a reward or recieve a punishment as the result of our actions when we do not have a ful understanding of the consequences for either?

 

[Joe_5859]

See if this logic makes sense to anyone:

Humans are finite beings. Although our souls are infinite, our free choice and ability to reason is based on a finite body. God is infinite. By definition, the finite cannot comprehend the full reality of the infinite. Therefore, we, as finite beings, cannot comprehend God except in a remedial way.

Heaven and hell are also infinite. The joy associated with one and the suffering associated with the other are also infinite. By the same logic described above, we, as finite beings do not have the ability to comprehend the infinity of Heaven or hell. As such, we cannot fully comprehend the the infinite results of our actions. Therefore, one could ask, is it justice to recieve a reward or recieve a punishment as the result of our actions when we do not have a ful understanding of the consequences for either?

I don’t think you have used properly used the word “infinite” with it’s precise theological meaning. You can’t apply the word “infinite” to our souls, heaven, and hell. Our souls will live forever, but they did have a beginning. I don’t think I’ve seen the Church use the word “infinite” in any way other than in reference to God.

I think the correct word you are looking for is “eternal”. Our souls, heaven, and hell could all be said to be “eternal” in that they will go on forever. Thus, the question I think you are asking is really whether or not it is just to receive an eternal punishment as the result of a temporal act on earth.

St. Thomas Aquinas answers that question in his Summa: Whether any sin incurs a debt of eternal punishment?

 

[Cristiano]

See if this logic makes sense to anyone:

Humans are finite beings. Although our souls are infinite, our free choice and ability to reason is based on a finite body. God is infinite. By definition, the finite cannot comprehend the full reality of the infinite. Therefore, we, as finite beings, cannot comprehend God except in a remedial way.

Heaven and hell are also infinite. The joy associated with one and the suffering associated with the other are also infinite. By the same logic described above, we, as finite beings do not have the ability to comprehend the infinity of Heaven or hell. As such, we cannot fully comprehend the the infinite results of our actions. Therefore, one could ask, is it justice to recieve a reward or recieve a punishment as the result of our actions when we do not have a ful understanding of the consequences for either?

What we already have is a necessary and sufficient understanding to be capable to make the correct choices. We have natural law and divine revelation. We do not need a complete understanding.

 

[expectthebest]

I don’t think you have used properly used the word “infinite” with it’s precise theological meaning. You can’t apply the word “infinite” to our souls, heaven, and hell. Our souls will live forever, but they did have a beginning. I don’t think I’ve seen the Church use the word “infinite” in any way other than in reference to God.

I think the correct word you are looking for is “eternal”. Our souls, heaven, and hell could all be said to be “eternal” in that they will go on forever. Thus, the question I think you are asking is really whether or not it is just to receive an eternal punishment as the result of a temporal act on earth.

St. Thomas Aquinas answers that question in his Summa: Whether any sin incurs a debt of eternal punishment?

Point taken. But the question still stands? We live our lives and take decisions on how we live this life based upon eventual eternal rewards or punishment. As finite beings, we cannot comprehend what we are getting ourselves in to by taking those decisions. It’s kind of like telling a toddler that if he takes a cookie, his hand will be cut off. The kid is just not going to understand the consequences.

 

[expectthebest]

What we already have is a necessary and sufficient understanding to be capable to make the correct choices. We have natural law and divine revelation. We do not need a complete understanding.

You are sure about that? I often wonder if God does not give us a full comprehension of eternity prior to judgment so we can take a fully informed decision.

 

[Cristiano]

You are sure about that? I often wonder if God does not give us a full comprehension of eternity prior to judgment so we can take a fully informed decision.

I am talking for myself only. Given the joy and suffering the I experience now on Earth, I think that I have plenty of information to know where I want to be for eternity. Even if it is not going to be any more intense than the way it is now, I know that I rather choose the joy that I have experienced instead of the spiritual and physical suffering that I went through.

 

[expectthebest]

I am talking for myself only. Given the joy and suffering the I experience now on Earth, I think that I have plenty of information to know where I want to be for eternity. Even if it is not going to be any more intense than the way it is now, I know that I rather choose the joy that I have experienced instead of the spiritual and physical suffering that I went through.

Gotcha. I understand what you are saying. I think I’m going through the Spiritual pain thing now.

 

[JimG]

It’s true that we may not have perfect knowledge of our motives and the reasons for our actions, and we often don’t forsee the consequences of our actions.

Two things to keep in mind are, first, that God’s justice is perfect.
Perfect justice means that our actions may indeed have eternal consequences, and God will judge that perfectly.

Second, God is infinite in mercy. In fact, since God’s attributes are identical to his essence, we can say that God IS Mercy.

God is just.
God is merciful.
Only He can balance those two perfectly.

 

[expectthebest]

It’s true that we may not have perfect knowledge of our motives and the reasons for our actions, and we often don’t forsee the consequences of our actions.

Two things to keep in mind are, first, that God’s justice is perfect.
Perfect justice means that our actions may indeed have eternal consequences, and God will judge that perfectly.

Second, God is infinite in mercy. In fact, since God’s attributes are identical to his essence, we can say that God IS Mercy.

God is just.
God is merciful.
Only He can balance those two perfectly.

Is it just to give a person something or punish a person for something based on rewards or punishments which that person cannot understand?

 

[JimG]

Is it just to give a person something or punish a person for something based on rewards or punishments which that person cannot understand?

Since God is infinitely just, no one will be complaining of injustice at the final judgment, because we will all understand the reasons for his decisions.

And is it just to attain eternal life in heaven as the reward of some human action which we cannot possibly merit? Obviously not. None of has the ability to merit heaven on our own.
Only Christ, who is God, can accomplish that.

And if he can accomplish that, I’m also sure that he can accomplish the purposes of his mercy, if we but cooperate a little.

 

[expectthebest]

Since God is infinitely just, no one will be complaining of injustice at the final judgment, because we will all understand the reasons for his decisions.

And is it just to attain eternal life in heaven as the reward of some human action which we cannot possibly merit? Obviously not. None of has the ability to merit heaven on our own.
Only Christ, who is God, can accomplish that.

And if he can accomplish that, I’m also sure that he can accomplish the purposes of his mercy, if we but cooperate a little.

Hmmm…I see what you are saying. I guess the real question is how much cooperation is needed to be saved? There is a lot of disagreement within even the Church on that. Is there not? I mean, how merciful will God be to us good for nothings at the moment of death? Noboday knows. The Church doesn’t teach us. Do we get the chance to understand the reality of the punishment of hell and the greatness of Heaven before we take our final choice? I don’t know and the Church doesn’t teach us. This hard for me to get my arms around. I mean, one can go to an extreme either way. A person can totally reject God or a person can join a monestary and use every waking moment for prayer in the hopes that he will be saved. Yes, that is the extreme but why wouldn’t each and every one of us go to the extreme in order for the small chance of being saved?