Fire and brimstone homilies

[redrosetea]

I sort of like to hear them…I think Fr Corapi delivers some wonderful ones…My priest never gives them, but his sermons are always good…I think this must be a special charism

I can imagine St Peter blasting away…I think it’s good for us

 

[Ohwesty]

I am all for no-nonsense sermons on sound Catholic doctrine. We don’t hear them enough. Sin is just as much a reality as grace. Hell is just as much a reality as heaven. We don’t get a healthy balance.

That said, I don’t remember many fire and brimstone sermons from my childhood. Those was something the Baptists did. Most parish priests were not Bing Crosby or the Cure of Ars. There were many boring, mamby-pamby sermons when I was a kid.

I love Fr. Corapi’s preaching, but keep in mind Fr. Corapi is not a pastor. He’s an evangelist. He can travel from city to city, wail out a whopper of a sermon that will have the congregation on their feet (or on their knees), and warn they better “repent or else…” then he’s off to the next city and the next preaching assignment. He doesn’t have to stick around and bear the consequences of angry parishioners and a drop in the weekly collection, like a pastor does.

Visiting priests come and go quickly. Preachers on the radio can be tuned in and tuned out at our choosing. But pastors are there for the long haul. They have to not only admonish their flock, but instruct them, encourage and uplift them, shepherd them, become a father to them.

• Westy

 

[KingAlfred]

What do you folks think of homilies that always come in the form of long, typed scripts, which are calmly read to the congregation, word for word, without exception, for years at a time?

 

[redrosetea]

I used to hear fire and brimstone homilies every Sunday back in the 70’s . Our pastor specialized in them

It sounds like your pastor is not a public speaker…not everyone is

Look at Bush, It didn’t seem to hamper him a bit…

 

[Ohwesty]

What do you folks think of homilies that always come in the form of long, typed scripts, which are calmly read to the congregation, word for word, without exception, for years at a time?

To be honest, I like homilies that are based on the Scripture readings for that day/Sunday. They can be used to explain a Catholic dogma, teach a moral lesson, uplift or admonish. Only please stick to the reading.

We’ve been blessed at our parish. Our pastor is a teacher and a theologian. Though he definitely has a theme prepared in his mind for his homilies, he has never used a script or even a cheat sheet once. He just steps up to the pulpit, drenched in the Word of God, and lets the Holy Spirit lead him.

• Westy

 

[CB_Catholic]

I like a good fire and brimstone sermon at times, and I like Fr Corapi very much, but I don’t want a steady diet of it. I don’t think it is necessary every week, because there are so many things to preach on. I heard a lot of it as a child, maybe a bit too much, and I got a very bad image of God.

I think there should be a balance, and I think a good homily is one that is based on sound doctrine and an application of the Gospel to everyday living.

One of the most memorable homilies I heard was on the sin of sloth, that was given by my Pastor. While he clearly gave examples of this sin (in ways I had never thought of), it was presented in a rational, intelligent manner, and he gave practical solutions to help in overcoming the sin. He also gave a great one on prayer, it was very helpful.

I think that if I heard fire and brimstone every week, I would find another parish. There is so much more to the Gospel message than that. But I wouldn’t want to hear a “feel good” messaage every week either. I think the whole Gospel needs to be preached.

 

[PKinsale]

What do you folks think of homilies that always come in the form of long, typed scripts, which are calmly read to the congregation, word for word, without exception, for years at a time?

At my college, we had a wonderful older Jesuit chaplain who always got nervous about homilies. He always wrote them out and prepared and prepared and paced and paced before Mass.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Father Corapi has had a pretty amazing life. The difference between his preaching and many of the “fire and brimstone” models of the past is that although he’s pretty clear on Hell (- not how it would be as a punishment; but rather as a tragedy should any of us end up there), he is even more clear on how much God loves us.

Fr. Corapi’s preaching may have a hard nose to it, but it’s true love in every respect…in his own words: “True love is making sure someone gets to heaven” *.

@ redrosetea: I’m with you 100 %. It is a special charism…not unlike the way St. Paul was chosen.

@ Ohwesty: I love his preaching too. Yes it is true that priests who give missions, “…don’t have to stick around and bear the consequences of angry parishoners and a drop in the weekly collection like a pastor does”. Maybe we could add that on these missions Fr. Corapi often spends a lot of time in the confessional (like the Curé of Ars). He has breathed new life into many a dying marriage by sticking to his guns on things like birth control…like a pastor does…or is supposed to do. He probably doesn’t receive a lot of kudos on that one.

But being a priest isn’t a popularity contest. A priest has a responsibility to give the faithful the truth…in its entirety…(not an easy job, but thank God we have priests).*

 

[Shoshana]

My pastor is a mini-Fr John Corapi. He calls sin…well, sin. And he mentions hell as much as heaven. He does have a special gift in preaching and does not read one note. You can tell it was prayerfully prepared.

That being said, Fr John Corapi is my hero. I love his preaching and he himself said that he had a special charism of apostolic preaching. Although, this has gotten him into trouble and people want to hurt him. I have seen him a couple of times, and he had heavy bodyguards, espceially in Buffalo. He has around 4-5 of them. He speaks the truth and that is disconcerting to many, I fear. I can hear his preaching forever.

God bless Father John!

 

[NeedImprovement]

Cool post. Thanks Shoshana. Wow…4 or 5 bodyguards…imagine how big his guardian Angel must be !!

 

[Shoshana]

Cool post. Thanks Shoshana. Wow…4 or 5 bodyguards…imagine how big his guardian Angel must be !!

Probably St Michael the Archangel!

Nevertheless, the last time I saw him (actually I saw him once in Buffalo, the second time in Rochester I think and he spoke with Scott Hahn (Father John was taping the Welcome Back Home series) and the third time, was in Buffalo again. And when he said his good byes to us, he spoke so gently and said that he knew us but didn’t really but we would join us up in heaven to continue our conversations with him. I cried like a baby…you have no idea! I was so touched and so moved to want to just give him a hug (which is impossible) but he did sign a book for me though!

 

[Ohwesty]

Yes, preaching is a gift of the Holy Spirit, a special charism. Not all priests have this, but they often have other gifts to compensate. Some make excellent confessors or spiritual directors, prison and hospital chaplains, or retreat masters.

I hope no one thinks I am taking a jab at Fr. Corapi, or downplaying the calling of mission priests. We recently had a visiting priest from Poland who gave a Parish Mission Retreat on the Divine Mercy devotion. He spent as many hours in the confessional as he did preaching and teaching, and his time with us bore many good fruits.

The truth is hard and it often shakes people up. Look at John the Baptist. He shook people up and ended up paying for it with his life (look at Our Savior!). We could all use a little “shaking up” from time to time. But sensibly speaking, I agree with CB Catholic that the whole Gospel needs to be preached. The root of the Gospel message is Love, not fear. Everything should build upon this truth.

• Westy

 

[NeedImprovement]

“Shaking up” sounds like the right words to me. I remember a priest relating more than once in his sermons that Jesus was the “Great Disturber”. (The first time I heard it put that way, I remember it kind of disturbed me)

 

[Spirithound]

What do you folks think of homilies that always come in the form of long, typed scripts, which are calmly read to the congregation, word for word, without exception, for years at a time?

Some people need notes to give a coherent message. My style (though not a priest [yet]) is to actually write out my speech in the style that I’ll be speaking. Yes, complete with “…” and “so”'s everywhere

 

[crenfro]

I don’t think Fr. Corapi’s sermons fall into the “fire and brimstone” category. To me, they’re straightforward and to-the-point yet somehow very comforting.

I always thought of fire and brimstone sermons as those which have me so scared I’m going to Hell I’m scared to even think a thought, worried it might be sinful, leading me into scrupulosity.

For another example, basing a sermon on a private revelation which says Hell has zillions of damned souls in it and will soon have zillions more, that it’s nearly impossible to be saved, now that to me is a fire-and-brimstone sermon.

I think sermons should be as complete as possible, and not too one-sided, neither portraying things as too sugar-coated or so bleak that everyone begins to despair of God’s infinite mercy.

My two cents.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Ghoti]

There was a priest at St Pius X in St. John’s, name of Fr Beaudois. He had bristly black hair, a jaw you could plane a door with, a piercing gaze, and a deep, stentorian voice. He never shouted, but his sermons were delivered very deliberately – were more like pronouncements, actually. Very easy to pay rapt attention. He made a lot of other priests sound like Glinda the Good Witch in comparison.

He was once a military chaplain. Go fig. I actually had him pegged as a Regimental Sergeant-Major.

And yes, there was something comforting in those sermons. A sort of, “I know what I’m talking about, so listen up, and you’ll be OK”.

BTW, I googled him, seems he celebrated 50 years in the priesthood on June 22 of this year. Way to go, Fr Beaudois!

 

[Ghoti]

Some people need notes to give a coherent message. My style (though not a priest [yet]) is to actually write out my speech in the style that I’ll be speaking. Yes, complete with “…” and “so”'s everywhere

As long as you don’t actually write “SEEE-yinnn-uh” for “sin” everywhere…

 

[KingAlfred]

Some people need notes to give a coherent message. My style (though not a priest [yet]) is to actually write out my speech in the style that I’ll be speaking. Yes, complete with “…” and “so”'s everywhere

I see. I must admit, it’s excruciatingly boring to listen to priests who only read from scripts. What percentage of the audience will pay attention to you if you do that all the time? Think about it. Just as it’s the responsibility of the writer to capture and keep the reader’s attention, it’s the responsibility of the speaker to do the same, most of the time, in the case of his audience.

Our priest is a darmed good guy. He’s Polish, and speaks English with a very thick accent. His sermons aren’t bad, but they follow the same pattern every Sunday. He’ll read a full page of general thematic stuff, and then say, every single Sunday, “…and according to the author of a very good book I just finished, so on and so forth, so on and so forth…”, and then he reads two or three more pages on some obscure author’s take on the issue at hand. It’s excruciating and almost incomprehensible for the vast majority of people in attendance. I can tell by looking around our massive, cram-packed church, that less than ten percent of the audience is even trying to follow him. Because our demographics are about 85% Hispanic, many people of whcih are actually from Mexico, the comprehension threshold must be less than five to two percent. As an intelligent, caring professional, the priest must know his sermons are largely ineffective, yet consume the bulk of the Mass.

 

[Spirithound]

I see. I must admit, it’s excruciatingly boring to listen to priests who only read from scripts. What percentage of the audience will pay attention to you if you do that all the time? Think about it. Just as it’s the responsibility of the writer to capture and keep the reader’s attention, it’s the responsibility of the speaker to do the same, most of the time, in the case of his audience.

Our priest is a darned good guy. He’s Polish, and speaks English with a very thick accent. His sermons aren’t bad, but they follow the same pattern every Sunday…
It’s excruciating and almost incomprehensible for the vast majority of people in attendance. I can tell by looking around our massive, cram-packed church, that less than ten percent of the audience is even trying to follow him. Because our demographics are about 85% Hispanic…
As an intelligent, caring professional, the priest must know his sermons are largely ineffective, yet consume the bulk of the Mass.

It seems like there is a correlation that people who speak off the top of their heads or with minimal notes are dynamic speakers. Also, boring speakers tend to read from notes, but that still leaves a middle section of speech-readers who are not monotonous, and can hold a room’s attention. (I hope i fall in this category )
The language speedbump you’ve described is a really unfortunate one, and I think perhaps that’s most of the problem. If your priest was speaking Polish, perhaps he would be better at it, having a firm command of the language. Similarly, it’s not his fault that most of the congregation can’t understand him. The accent is the hardest thing to grasp in a second or third language. However, if his homilies are taking up the bulk of the Mass, he should probably cut down, if only to simplify the message he wants to get across.

 

[NeedImprovement]

I don’t think Fr. Corapi’s sermons fall into the “fire and brimstone” category. To me, they’re straightforward and to-the-point yet somehow very comforting.

I always thought of fire and brimstone sermons as those which have me so scared I’m going to Hell I’m scared to even think a thought, worried it might be sinful, leading me into scrupulosity…

My two cents.

Thanks for listening.

I’m pretty much in agreement with the above re. Fr. Corapi…a fitting description of fire and brimstone too crenfro; except sometimes I used to find scrupulosity all by itself without having to be led there .

For the sake of the thread (which is a really nice one fellow posters and OP) it fits ok though. Fire and brimstone tends to focus on individuals and their sinfulness, while Fr. Corapi’s apostolate extends to a far wider scope. I’ve always thought of this analogy technically: " The Church in North America is a typewritten document and Father Corapi does what is in his power to be a bottle of correction fluid. - How about that one (a very loving bottle of correction fluid I might add )?

He isn’t afraid to speak up though, and we need this very badly today.