Firm Purpose of Amendment Question

[EasterJoy]

great points.

though some…i would say are not entirely the case…

for feelings CAN assist…and

even PERFECT the act …

and feelings are important…and even the feeling of love…etc

CCC 1770 Moral perfection consists in man’s being moved to the good not by his will alone, but also by his sensitive appetite, as in the words of the psalm: "My heart and flesh sing for joy to the living God."46

we need to realize the importance of this statement!

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a5.htm

Yes, our feelings do matter, and they matter a lot. Our desires do, too, and those differ even from our emotions. To the extent that our wants and feelings are under the control of our will–which is not just intellect, by the way, and you are right about that, too–we would be very mistaken not to them toward God. Yes, you are right about all of that. To the extent that our feelings are not under our control, though, we must not let them have the final say over the direction of our souls, nor worry ourselves to much about their incalcitrance. If we desire that they be aimed at what is truly good, they will usually come around, yes, but the demons will always try to tug at them. That is only temptation, and none of us are free of that, even the perfectly contrite.

We also must not let feelings of guilt and shame have such free rein that they give pride room to work, and keep us from approaching God in poverty for the mercy that we need. Despair lies in that direction. We can learn to control our feelings of guilt, so that they are not allowed to give the devil a chance to lie to us about the goodness and mercy of God.

We need God. There is no shame in that. Yet the devil will tell us we must clean ourselves up before we can approach God, even though the truth is that we must consent to let God approach us and heal us before we can be made clean. Cleaning ourselves up is not what is meant by contrition, not even perfect contrition. The lies of the devil about what God requires of us keep many people from seeking the mercy that they cannot live without.

 

[Bookcat]

, yes, but the demons will always try to tug at them. That is only temptation, and none of us are free of that, even the perfectly contrite.

We also must not let feelings of guilt and shame have such free rein that they give pride room to work, and keep us from approaching God in poverty for the mercy that we need. Despair lies in that direction. We can learn to control our feelings of guilt, so that they are not allowed to give the devil a chance to lie to us about the goodness and mercy of God.

of course …not just demons or the devils…we ought not give them too much credit

much is simply due to the disorder caused by original sin.

added to by personal sins.

and thus we have only a ‘diplomatic’ control of our emotions…not a dispotic.

as St. Thomas reminds us …after the Greeks.

but having said all that…

this line from the CCC and the whole section is GOLD

1770 Moral perfection consists in man’s being moved to the good not by his will alone, but also by his sensitive appetite, as in the words of the psalm: "My heart and flesh sing for joy to the living God.

for many tend to discount the good that can be done with the passions…due to being too aware of the evil

 

[EasterJoy]

of course …not just demons or the devils…we ought not give them too much credit

much is simply due to the disorder caused by original sin.

added to by personal sins.

and thus we have only a ‘diplomatic’ control of our emotions…not a dispotic.

as St. Thomas reminds us …after the Greeks.

but having said all that…

this line from the CCC and the whole section is GOLD

1770 Moral perfection consists in man’s being moved to the good not by his will alone, but also by his sensitive appetite, as in the words of the psalm: "My heart and flesh sing for joy to the living God.

for many tend to discount the good that can be done with the passions…due to being too aware of the evil

We are in agreement! For if one extinguishes all passion, how can one be on fire for God? Turning ourselves over to God is an act of the whole self, yes, and all of our humanity is made good and in the likeness of God. I only mean that we do not need to fret about those parts that are not yet under our own mastery. We turn over what we can, and trust all to God. We are only culpable for failing to do what we actually have the self-mastery to do. Sometimes, making ourselves feel a certain way simply isn’t in our grasp.

And yes, if one is leading onesself astray quite well enough, why would any demon intervene, perhaps to wake us up with its whispers? As CS Lewis put it, it is not as if it matters to the devils how we are separated from God, only that we are. The safest road to hell is the gradual one, with no signposts, and soft underfoot. I only mean to say that we should not expect that the saints are not tempted. Experiencing temptation or lacking the self-mastery to practice total detachment is itself no sin. Hold nothing back from God, but do not expect that everything in you is already yours to hold out to God. If you are only willing, He will claim all and transform all, but in His own good time.

 

[Ferds_Guiang]

Isn’t love an act of the will as well, opposed to being a feeling?

I think Love is always an act of the Will that may or may not be accompanied by a feeling (or emotion). There are many instances of Love not being accompanied by feeling. In the case of contrition, I think it would be quite rare that no feelings are present when we have contrite hearts.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think Love is always an act of the Will that may or may not be accompanied by a feeling (or emotion). There are many instances of Love not being accompanied by feeling. In the case of contrition, I think it would be quite rare that no feelings are present when we have contrite hearts.

If you have committed an act that the Church teaches to be sinful and yet you feel there is nothing wrong with it, but you decide to repent having done it and avoid the act in the future because you choose to conform your conscience to what the Church teaches instead of your own feelings on the subject, that is still true repentance. You might not be able to feel any remorse, but the contrition and purpose of amendment would still be real. This would be a case when the heart leads us to ignore our emotions and do what faith prompts us to do, instead.

 

[PeteZaHut]

I realize I should have posted this to begin with. This is what I was struggling with when I wrote the initial question.

I am in the process of an organization, ongoing activity where a bunch of college students live in tents to get spots for a basketball game. Everyone separates into groups, some people in each tent group have certain shifts where they have to be in the tent. This goes on for about a month.

One of my shifts is to sleep in the tent Saturday night/Sunday morning. Then I read this in the Catechism:
“2185
On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.”

The first night I realized this a couple hours before I had to go out to the tent, so I didn’t really have much time to handle the situation. I also thought that we would be allowed to return home and sleep inside due to low temperatures (which eventually did happen). Anyway, I wound up going out there anyway. I was really worried that this was wrong because you don’t exactly get the best nights sleep out there. I figured that would be hindering the proper relaxation of mind and body.

After this, I realized that in the future, I can work around it to make sure I getting enough rest. I don’t have to go to the tent until 2:30 AM, so I can get significant sleep indoors beforehand, and I can also come back and sleep a couple hours indoors the following morning.

SO… my whole dilemma is that if I confess the original sin, I still intend on going out there and sleeping a couple morning Saturday nights/Sunday mornings. Even though I have made the effort to dramatically improve the situation, do I have a firm purpose of amendment? Is there a possibility that it would still be minutely sinful for me to do it because it hinders appropriate relaxation? And would that be me intending to go back out and sin again when I confess?

 

[EasterJoy]

I realize I should have posted this to begin with. This is what I was struggling with when I wrote the initial question.

I am in the process of an organization, ongoing activity where a bunch of college students live in tents to get spots for a basketball game. Everyone separates into groups, some people in each tent group have certain shifts where they have to be in the tent. This goes on for about a month.

One of my shifts is to sleep in the tent Saturday night/Sunday morning. Then I read this in the Catechism:
“2185
On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.”

The first night I realized this a couple hours before I had to go out to the tent, so I didn’t really have much time to handle the situation. I also thought that we would be allowed to return home and sleep inside due to low temperatures (which eventually did happen). Anyway, I wound up going out there anyway. I was really worried that this was wrong because you don’t exactly get the best nights sleep out there. I figured that would be hindering the proper relaxation of mind and body.

After this, I realized that in the future, I can work around it to make sure I getting enough rest. I don’t have to go to the tent until 2:30 AM, so I can get significant sleep indoors beforehand, and I can also come back and sleep a couple hours indoors the following morning.

SO… my whole dilemma is that if I confess the original sin, I still intend on going out there and sleeping a couple morning Saturday nights/Sunday mornings. Even though I have made the effort to dramatically improve the situation, do I have a firm purpose of amendment? Is there a possibility that it would still be minutely sinful for me to do it because it hinders appropriate relaxation? And would that be me intending to go back out and sin again when I confess?

I don’t think that what you’re doing is a sin in the first place, unless you use it as an excuse to miss Mass or ignore God on Sundays, of course.

What you’re doing sounds like something in-between recreational camping and employment. As long as you’re getting enough sleep otherwise, camping is allowed on Saturday nights…even if you are as old as I am, and get a little stiff. Also, the required Sunday rest does not prevent Catholics from accepting employment which might require them to work on a Sunday. It doesn’t forbid Catholics from working an entire graveyard shift on a Saturday night, let alone taking a two-hour stint sleeping in a tent. So as long as the thing with the tickets is moral–no one is scalping the tickets, not cheating the system, nor anything like that–you’re OK. (If you’re involved in ticket-scalping, cut that out! :tsktsk

 

[PeteZaHut]

I don’t think that what you’re doing is a sin in the first place, unless you use it as an excuse to miss Mass or ignore God on Sundays, of course.

What you’re doing sounds like something in-between recreational camping and employment. As long as you’re getting enough sleep otherwise, camping is allowed on Saturday nights…even if you are as old as I am, and get a little stiff. Also, the required Sunday rest does not prevent Catholics from accepting employment which might require them to work on a Sunday. It doesn’t forbid Catholics from working an entire graveyard shift on a Saturday night, let alone taking a two-hour stint sleeping in a tent. So as long as the thing with the tickets is moral–no one is scalping the tickets, not cheating the system, nor anything like that–you’re OK. (If you’re involved in ticket-scalping, cut that out! :tsktsk

haha, no, I’m not ticket scalping. It’s a little longer than two hours. It’s about
7 and a half. I just feel like it fit so perfectly with the Catechism when it says hindering relaxation. It’s not the most rejuvenating way to sleep.