First 2 questions in Ephesians 1

[Pilgrimbygrace]

I’ve decided to start a new thread with specific questions in the first chapter in Ephesians.

1. When we look at the first couple of versus in the Epistle to the Ephesians and the rest of Asia Minor, we see two titles.
   a. Apostles
   b. Saints

I was hoping someone would be kind enough to share some thoughts on your ideas of these two terms?

Are apostles only the 12 disciples and St. Paul?

Who are the saints? What is the communion of Saints?

Thanks.

In His loving grace,

Pilgrim.

 

[Della]

Paul identifies himself as an apostle because he was a witness to the living, risen Christ (in his vision on the road to Damascus) and was personally sent by Christ, as He sent out the other apostles, to preach the Gospel.

The saints (or holy ones) are the believers of Ephesus. This is how the Church views the faithful, as the holy ones of God.

 

[mercygate]

I’ve decided to start a new thread with specific questions in the first chapter in Ephesians.

1. When we look at the first couple of versus in the Epistle to the Ephesians and the rest of Asia Minor, we see two titles.
   a. Apostles
   b. Saints

I was hoping someone would be kind enough to share some thoughts on your ideas of these two terms?

Are apostles only the 12 disciples and St. Paul?

Who are the saints? What is the communion of Saints?

Thanks.

In His loving grace,

Pilgrim.

OK. I’ll bite.
If you scour the NT, you find Apostles who were not of the 12: Matthias, Paul, – and perhaps a couple of others. I have heard the number set at 14 and at 16. For evangelization, it seems that “Apostles” are those directly connected with the 12 in some way: those “sent” by the early Church to spread the Gospel. Even Paul is one of those since his mission was actually confirmed for him in Damascus and later in Antioch as well as through the affirmation from “the pillars” in Jerusalem.

The saints in the address of this letter are “hagioi” – holy ones. Not the communion of saints or any such doctrine. The members of the Church in Ephesus. He calls all Christians “hagioi.” He is not referring to the sainted martyrs who have won their heavenly crowns.

 

[LittleFlower378]

Being in commuion with the Saints is a great gift. We are somehow connected with all of the living and all of the dead. The Saints, who we are in communion with, are very close to Christ in heaven which is why praying to the saints for their help is such a great blessing. Also, it is a good practice to pray for all the living and the dead.

Here is what the Catechism says on the Communion of Saints.

957 Communion with the saints. “It is not merely by the title of example that we cherish the memory of those in heaven; we seek, rather, that by this devotion to the exercise of fraternal charity the union of the whole Church in the Spirit may be strengthened. Exactly as Christian communion among our fellow pilgrims brings us closer to Christ, so our communion with the saints joins us to Christ, from whom as from its fountain and head issues all grace, and the life of the People of God itself”:

We worship Christ as God’s Son; we love the martyrs as the Lord’s disciples and imitators, and rightly so because of their matchless devotion towards their king and master. May we also be their companions and fellow disciples!

 

[Pilgrimbygrace]

Thank you very much, everyone, for your well thought out replies. I appreciate your help.

So then I ask for confirmation.

1. So it is generally accepted in the ecumenical denominations as it is in the more orthodox Protestant denominations that the Apostles were in fact a limited few during the Apostolic period and that the last remaining Apostle was St. John who died on the Isle of Patmos?

So there are no current Apostles in the Church today who are receiving special revelation from the Father and are preforming miraculous deeds to further the Church?

1. So in this Epistle we are referring to All Christians as Saints? So what is the difference between a saint and a Saint?

 

[NotWorthy]

Real quick, the Original Apostles were often called “The Twelve” or “The Eleven”. Other’s that were “sent out” (Apostle means “One who is sent”) to preach the Gospels were also called apostles, but they were differentiated from the Original 12 (and Paul).

Yes, we are all apostles, for we have been sent to go out and preach the Gospel. That’s what “Mass” means, “Go, it is sent”.

In regards to saints, anyone who is a member of the Church.

There is the Church Triumphant in heaven. All there are saints. Some are recognized by the Catholic Church, but there are many, MANY more saints up there than just those that are canonized.

There is the Church Suffering, or those in Purgatory.

There is the Church Militant, that is all members of the Body of Christ here on earth. We are called saints by some, but we are still imperfect until we experience the Beatific Vision in Heaven as saints.

 

[davidv]

So then I ask for confirmation.

1. So it is generally accepted in the ecumenical denominations as it is in the more orthodox Protestant denominations that the Apostles were in fact a limited few during the Apostolic period and that the last remaining Apostle was St. John who died on the Isle of Patmos?

I believe that is generally accepted.

So there are no current Apostles in the Church today who are receiving special revelation from the Father and are preforming miraculous deeds to further the Church?

No, this requires the inclusion of assumption that the apostles didn’t appoint successors. They did and they are called bishops and priests. The person of Jesus Christ was the last public revelation. Private revelations have been granted to a few over the years since then. Miraculous deeds continue to be performed.

1. So in this Epistle we are referring to All Christians as Saints? So what is the difference between a saint and a Saint?

Other posters have shown that one reference of the term is for the particular church in Ephesis. We must also ask ourselves how the message applies to us today. So, another meaning of saint, could be those who are faithfully attempting to follow Christ today.

For those who have died, a saint is anyone who is, or will experiece the beatific vision. A Saint is one who is formally recognized by the Church for living a life of heroic virtue and are in heaven.

 

[mercygate]

Thank you very much, everyone, for your well thought out replies. I appreciate your help.

So then I ask for confirmation.

1. So it is generally accepted in the ecumenical denominations as it is in the more orthodox Protestant denominations that the Apostles were in fact a limited few during the Apostolic period and that the last remaining Apostle was St. John who died on the Isle of Patmos?

That is my understanding.

So there are no current Apostles in the Church today who are receiving special revelation from the Father and are preforming miraculous deeds to further the Church?

Last revelation ended with the death of the last apostle. Miracles do occur (even - gasp! - among Protestants) but they are not a mark of apostolicity.

1. So in this Epistle we are referring to All Christians as Saints? So what is the difference between a saint and a Saint?

In Catholic parlance a "S"aint is one who not only has received his heavenly reward but of whom we are assured of that fact through the rigorous process of canonization. Canonical Sainthood is a subcategory of Sainthood. Anybody who is in heaven is a Saint. Most are not known to us by name – although my grandmother is probably one of them! The “Communion of Saints” – for Catholics – encompases the entire Church: The Church on earth, the Saints in heaven, and those in the vestibule being cleansed because “nothing unclean” may enter the City.

 

[Fidelis]

So there are no current Apostles in the Church today who are receiving special revelation from the Father and are preforming miraculous deeds to further the Church?

Correct. Also, it is important to point out that, while St. John was the last of the Apostles, properly speaking, that Jesus directly appointed, their successors the bishops (including the Pope) still hold an “apostolic” office of sorts:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**857 **The Church is apostolic because she is founded on the apostles, in three ways:

• she was and remains built on “the foundation of the Apostles,” the witnesses chosen and sent on mission by Christ himself;

• with the help of the Spirit dwelling in her, the Church keeps and hands on the teaching, the “good deposit,” the salutary words she has heard from the apostles;

• she continues to be taught, sanctified, and guided by the apostles until Christ’s return, through their successors in pastoral office: the college of bishops, “assisted by priests, in union with the successor of Peter, the Church’s supreme pastor”:

The Catechism goes on to say:

**860 **In the office of the apostles there is one aspect that cannot be transmitted: to be the chosen witnesses of the Lord’s Resurrection and so the foundation stones of the Church. But their office also has a permanent aspect. Christ promised to remain with them always. The divine mission entrusted by Jesus to them “will continue to the end of time, since the Gospel they handed on is the lasting source of all life for the Church. Therefore, . . . the apostles took care to appoint successors.”

**The bishops - successors of the apostles **

861 “In order that the mission entrusted to them might be continued after their death, [the apostles] consigned, by will and testament, as it were, to their immediate collaborators the duty of completing and consolidating the work they had begun, urging them to tend to the whole flock, in which the Holy Spirit had appointed them to shepherd the Church of God. They accordingly designated such men and then made the ruling that likewise on their death other proven men should take over their ministry.”

862 “Just as the office which the Lord confided to Peter alone, as first of the apostles, destined to be transmitted to his successors, is a permanent one, so also endures the office, which the apostles received, of shepherding the Church, a charge destined to be exercised without interruption by the sacred order of bishops.” Hence the Church teaches that “the bishops have by divine institution taken the place of the apostles as pastors of the Church, in such wise that whoever listens to them is listening to Christ and whoever despises them despises Christ and him who sent Christ.”

 

[NotWorthy]

But doesn’t Paul call Timothy and (maybe) Barnabus apostles?

 

[Pilgrimbygrace]

Wow awesome.

Thank you everyone for your replies. Fidelis, Davidv, mercygate, notworthy, Littleflower378 and Della.

This has been a real learning experience for me. I’m still a little fuzzy about the church militant and church triumphant and sainthood. I also don’t know what the beatific vision is. But I’ll look that up.

In the Orthodox Protestant church, There is no Apostleship after the death of St. John. Although, yes they do believe in miraculous working of the Spirit, it is not associated with specific God ordained individuals who have a specific official calling. Miracles are seen more as just happening how ever the Spirit works. If that makes any sense.

But now I understand better the succession of Apostleship via Bishops in the Roman Catholic Church. This is very interesting and I’m encouraged to learn more about this. Thank you for all your edifying words everyone and allowing me to learn more about these two subjects.