First Communion Quesiton

[YADA]

Registration at a parish is meaningless.

Membership at a parish is determined by residence in that parish.

One can register anywhere. It means nothing.

Everyone who lives within the boundaries of a given parish is a member of that parish. Parish membership is acquired by residence; not by registration or attendance.

I cannot argue the geographic point …and your everyone includes all souls - Catholic & non-Catholic …as our Bishop was want to speak …he was responsible for every person who resided in the archdiocese …practically speaking though …a catholic would register in their parish … In common practice that might be another nearby parish …I do not know of any priest who would tell a registered parishioner who actively participated and supported the parish they could t receive a Sacrament based upon their physical address …I know families who attend my parish but do not live inside its geographic boundaries …some send their children to the parish school …some grew up here and have parents here …they receive their sacraments here because its their parish. Would you send the children who attend our school to a different parish (or get written permission from a geographic parish) if they were registered in your parish based on the parents home address …if so …you would be the first priest I know who would…

Personally I totally get the geographics …I do not shop parishes or priests …when a long time friend was pastor at a nearby parish …it was tempting to go there regularly …we did not though …we nly did so when it was necessary to fulfill our Mass obligation …he did perform a wedding and a funeral at our parish with our current pastor’s permission. I have two parishes because of work and family obligations …I only have one official address.

 

[Phemie]

No. A pastor is a pastor. A parish priest (other than pastor) is a parish priest.

I think you’ll find that in many regions the term ‘pastor’ is only known in the context of the Protestant churches. You have your “Parish Priest”, who may or many not have a vicar.

When I’ve used the term “Pastor” to introduce our “Parish Priest” I’ve actually had people ask if they are really at a Catholic Church.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think you’ll find that in many regions the term ‘pastor’ is only known in the context of the Protestant churches. You have your “Parish Priest”, who may or many not have a vicar.

When I’ve used the term “Pastor” to introduce our “Parish Priest” I’ve actually had people ask if they are really at a Catholic Church.

Canon Law is not talking about Protestant communities.

Can. 914 It is primarily the duty of parents and those who take the place of parents, as well as the duty of pastors, to take care that children who have reached the use of reason are prepared properly and, after they have made sacramental confession, are refreshed with this divine food as soon as possible. It is for the pastor to exercise vigilance so that children who have not attained the use of reason or whom he judges are not sufficiently disposed do not approach holy communion.

 

[expectthebest]

Canon Law is not talking about Protestant communities.

Can’t one have a pastor outside of one’s geographical parish boundaries?

 

[expectthebest]

Yes. That is what it means.

It is the role of the pastor to make that decision.

Well, that seems very odd. All of my kids have been Baptized and two of my kids have had their first Communion, none of which took place in the Parish of my residence. I don’t recall this ever being an issue with the Priest/Paster who first ok’d and then performed the Sacrament. I don’t know why your location of residence has anything to do with it. Wouldn’t your Pastor just be the Priest who oversees the Church you most often attend? It would seem very odd to have to sell your house and move just get the Sacraments from a Pastor you preferred a few miles down the road.

 

[expectthebest]

Are you registered in the parish you attend ‘most often’?..

It seems like you are holding back information or being cagey about this issue…it seems where ever you attend, if your child would have been receving Sacramental preparation and the actual First Communion would happen when they were properly catechized.

Does your family actively participate in any parish in activities like faith formation and catechisis? Your child should have had preparation for the reception of their first Holy Communion …which would also included instruction on reconciliation and the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Forgive me if I am wrong about your situation but people who fail to register or financially and actively participate in parish life seem to treat the church like a store …they want to drop into the one most convenient at the time and get the " Sacrament De jour " …perhaps the best time for your child to receive their first Holy Communion might be after the time you have seriously recommitted to your Catholic Faith …which you don’t appear to fully embrace based upon your own words you are not sure what you believe

You should “generally” register in the parish within whose boundaries you reside …however, you can register out side your geographic area …I actively attend and support two parishes because I split my time regularly between them (life’s complicated) … Both pastors know my name, both know I move between the two …and by support I mean attendance at Mass, parish activities and financially…so I am sure its easy to get known in a parish …just be there.

My kid has been catechized at home. He is prepared, probably much better than those who took the official classes from my past experience.

Just because I struggle with what I believe doesn’t mean I’m going to short my kid for it. I do what I am supposed to do for the sake of my kids, even if I struggle with it.

I don’t care of the Pastor or the Parish of which my home is located. I choose to most often attend Mass down the road from my house. My money goes to where I attend Mass. Since I attend Mass in a Parish different from where I reside, that is where most of my money goes.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Can’t one have a pastor outside of one’s geographical parish boundaries?

Can. 518 As a general rule a parish is to be territorial, that is, one which includes all the Christian faithful of a certain territory. When it is expedient, however, personal parishes are to be established determined by reason of the rite, language, or nationality of the Christian faithful of some territory, or even for some other reason.
Can. 519 The pastor (parochus) is the proper pastor (pastor) of the parish entrusted to him, exercising the pastoral care of the community committed to him under the authority of the diocesan bishop in whose ministry of Christ he has been called to share, so that for that same community he carries out the functions of teaching, sanctifying, and governing, also with the cooperation of other presbyters or deacons and with the assistance of lay members of the Christian faithful, according to the norm of law.

I think that some dioceses are flexible in applying this.

 

[retire_early]

Bless your heart for taking the responsibility to really catechize your child!

Do you realize you can become a member of the “parish down the road”? And, really should, if that is where you attend. There is no geographic restriction, contrary to what others have said. The “pastor” or “parish priest” (could be titled “administrator” or even “pastoral administrator” or other terms—not every parish has a “pastor” in these days of priest shortages) is the one to decide if your child is properly catechized and ready to receive First Holy Communion, even if you or someone else has give the instruction.

Belonging to a parish does not restrict you from attending Mass at other Catholic churches, but it is important to really become a member of at least one parish family and be counted. Many reasons, as others have mentioned. Consult with your bishop, if you want.

Becoming a member of a specific parish will open up a whole new level of Christ’s love for you through the fellowship, experiences, opportunities and knowledge found in belonging to and worshiping with your parish family.

I speak from experience. Now, after more than twenty years belonging to a parish (I chose the closest one so I could walk to Mass), I realize that belonging and really participating in parish activities is a far better spiritual experience that the Mass-hopping I used to do for so many years.

 

[YADA]

My kid has been catechized at home. He is prepared, probably much better than those who took the official classes from my past experience.

Just because I struggle with what I believe doesn’t mean I’m going to short my kid for it. I do what I am supposed to do for the sake of my kids, even if I struggle with it.

I don’t care of the Pastor or the Parish of which my home is located. I choose to most often attend Mass down the road from my house. My money goes to where I attend Mass. Since I attend Mass in a Parish dif**ferent from where I reside, that is where most of my money goes.

And are you registered in that parish …the one you attend?

All parents are their children’s primary catechist …that does not mean that your child should not also paricipate in formation provided by the parish …we belong to a faith community …its made up of people who follow Jesus … you are baptized into that family of faith …and you join the family in that “family meal …the Eucharist” …

Instead of trying to figure out how to escape the process, why not call the parish where you attend, register if you haven’t , and enroll your child in the parish 1st Communion preparation classes.

Its not a " me and Jesus" faith …its “us and Jesus” …

 

[Phemie]

Canon Law is not talking about Protestant communities.

In the US translation. The British translation says “parish priest.”

 

[FrDavid96]

I cannot argue the geographic point …and your everyone includes all souls - Catholic & non-Catholic …as our Bishop was want to speak …he was responsible for every person who resided in the archdiocese …practically speaking though …a catholic would register in their parish … In common practice that might be another nearby parish …I do not know of any priest who would tell a registered parishioner who actively participated and supported the parish they could t receive a Sacrament based upon their physical address …I know families who attend my parish but do not live inside its geographic boundaries …some send their children to the parish school …some grew up here and have parents here …they receive their sacraments here because its their parish. Would you send the children who attend our school to a different parish (or get written permission from a geographic parish) if they were registered in your parish based on the parents home address …if so …you would be the first priest I know who would…

Personally I totally get the geographics …I do not shop parishes or priests …when a long time friend was pastor at a nearby parish …it was tempting to go there regularly …we did not though …we nly did so when it was necessary to fulfill our Mass obligation …he did perform a wedding and a funeral at our parish with our current pastor’s permission. I have two parishes because of work and family obligations …I only have one official address.

Personal anecdotes don’t change canon law.

 

[FrDavid96]

Well, that seems very odd. All of my kids have been Baptized and two of my kids have had their first Communion, none of which took place in the Parish of my residence. **I don’t recall **this ever being an issue with the Priest/Paster who first ok’d and then performed the Sacrament. I don’t know why your location of residence has anything to do with it. Wouldn’t your Pastor just be the Priest who oversees the Church you most often attend? It would seem very odd to have to sell your house and move just get the Sacraments from a Pastor you preferred a few miles down the road.

A parish is a geographical territory.

The basis of what you’re saying is “I don’t know why…” or “It would seem…”

Canon law does not work that way.

A parish is a territory, and everyone who lives in that territory is a member of that parish.
Anyone who does not live in that territory is not a member of that parish.

 

[FrDavid96]

I think that some dioceses are flexible in applying this.

What is means is that parishes are territorial and that’s the way they’re supposed to be. Personal parishes can be the occasional exception. In other words, it means that the strong preference is for territorial parishes.

It does not mean that parish territory is something that’s just optional, as in the sense of “we’ll just stick a church here and anyone who comes is a member” or “there are no parish boundaries.” It means that all parishes are territorial (“as a general rule”) but there can be the occasional exception for personal parishes.

 

[YADA]

Personal anecdotes don’t change canon law.

Thanks Father, I am assuming then that you will not offer any Sacraments to registered parishioners when their physical address falls outside your parish boundaries …even though you failed to answer that question directly. You also did not acknowledge that I agreed and lived my faith in accordance with the Canon Law …

When a family whose physical address lies outside of your parish registers with your parish - do you explain to them your strict adherence to the geographical boundaries and the reception of Sacraments? Do you encourage them to attend their geographic parish? If one of your geographic parishioners registers and attends a nearby parish - do you give consent to that parish when and if contacted - to administer the Sacraments to them or do you require that they come to you with the recommendation of the other Pastor? Do all of your neighboring Pastors hold as strictly to the Law as you? …if they don’t, and this family never registered with you - how would you even know?

I ask these questions because without registration, you really have no knowledge or record of the Catholics that reside in your territory. In order to adhere to the Canon and enforce it, the various Pastors and parish staff would need to become parish boundary police…something no priest I know would want or have time for. And of course - this only becomes an issue with in large cities - large enough to have more than one parish anyway. And those parishes who have schools near parishes who don’t would be problematic in that students and families would be drawn by necessity in volunteer hours and personal relationships into conflict between the two …

Since I am very familiar with parish life and operations and also with Cannon Law …I find your position (hard line and to the letter) rather at odds with parish life in my diocese. I also don’t see this as a huge issue. Most people attend the church that is closest to them. However, closest might not be the geographical parish. Some select parishes for cultural and language reasons, some because of other family units or catholic education. You see this as a violation of the Law.

Call it anecdotal … Having active practicing Catholic families, supporting the parish and catechizing their children seems far more important the parish boundaries …especially when so many parishes are closing and consolidating which moves the geography …and I am sure you know the angst, anger and heartbreak closing a parish inflicts on those who once attended it … if being the guardian of the boundary line is a high point for you …go for it.

By the way … If I lived in your parish - you’d see me every Sunday I was at home - I might be creating the countdown calendar for your reassignment in private …but I’d be there, helping you as much as I could …I am thankful for priests …

 

[FrDavid96]

Thanks Father, I am assuming then that you will not offer any Sacraments to registered parishioners when their physical address falls outside your parish boundaries …even though you failed to answer that question directly. You also did not acknowledge that I agreed and lived my faith in accordance with the Canon Law …

Personal anecdotes do not change canon law.

Appeals to emotion do not change canon law.

Your question makes no sense. A person who lives outside the parish territory is not a “registered parishioner” but a non-parishioner who happens to be on some sort of list at the parish office.

A person is a member of a parish by virtue of residence (domicile or quasi-domicile). Whether you happen to like that or not, it doesn’t change.

You wrote this

You also did not acknowledge that I agreed and lived my faith in accordance with the Canon Law

I have no idea whether you do or not. That’s not my place to say, but for some reason you feel that I’m obligated to comment on that, therefore I will do so (only because you insist).

My comment is this: What you wrote is that you feel you know better than what is found in the Church’s canon law, and what you wrote indicates that if you don’t like something in canon law, then you’re free to ignore it, as it pleases you. That’s what you wrote.

 

[YADA]

Personal anecdotes do not change canon law.

Appeals to emotion do not change canon law.

Your question makes no sense. A person who lives outside the parish territory is not a “registered parishioner” but a non-parishioner who happens to be on some sort of list at the parish office.

A person is a member of a parish by virtue of residence (domicile or quasi-domicile). Whether you happen to like that or not, it doesn’t change.

You wrote this

I have no idea whether you do or not. That’s not my place to say, but for some reason you feel that I’m obligated to comment on that, therefore I will do so (only because you insist).

My comment is this: What you wrote is that you feel you know better than what is found in the Church’s canon law, and what you wrote indicates that if you don’t like something in canon law, then you’re free to ignore it, as it pleases you. That’s what you wrote.

No I wrote that I attended the parish where I live …that I do not parish shop nor priest shop …I acknowledge the Canon law …

I asked you if you spoke with people who wanted to register in your parish but did not reside within its boundaries about receiving the Sacraments…

I am not arguing with you the Canon. I have always not only attended geographically but also registered …

Anecdotal you call it …I am not the pastor but I observe the pastoral action …if anyone is at odds with the Canon it would be them not me…

Do you tell people who do not live in your parish but register there that you will not baptize their children because you are not their pastor and that they should seek the Sacraments from their geographic parish?

 

[FrDavid96]

…

Do you tell people who do not live in your parish but register there that you will not baptize their children because you are not their pastor and that they should seek the Sacraments from their geographic parish?

You’re going 'round in circles.

As I keep posting, registration is meaningless. It confers no status whatsoever on anyone. Parish membership is determined by domicile*. In contrast, you insist on posting questions and comments that confuse the issues of parish membership with parish registration.

---

*I am obviously excluding personal parishes because that topic is not germane to the subject at hand.