First group to reject the Eucharist?

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I have seen Lutherans roundly criticized on some Reformed boards because of our “idolatrous behavior” when kneeling to receive the Eucharist. So as was mentioned earlier, we haven’t rejected it - **although the term “adoration” would not normally come to mind for Lutherans. ** We assume the posture as we would if Jesus was visible to us in His person.
Oh, I would beg to differ. I receive His true body and blood on my knees out of complete adoration to the risen Savior in our midst. I have heard that some pastors are not only elevating the host, but also genuflecting. I think that’s exactly what Lutherans need - to see complete and total Eucharisit adoration.

Jon
 
Oh, I would beg to differ. I receive His true body and blood on my knees out of complete adoration to the risen Savior in our midst. I have heard that some pastors are not only elevating the host, but also genuflecting. I think that’s exactly what Lutherans need - to see complete and total Eucharisit adoration.

Jon
[SIGN]Preach on brother![/SIGN]

😃
 
So Anglicans believe in the “real presence,” just not in the same way as some others do. Maybe the Declaration on Kneeling would be helpful to some non-Anglicans:

“Whereas it is ordained in this Office for the Administration of the Lord’s Supper, that the Communicants should receive the same kneeling; (which order is well meant, for a signification of our humble and grateful acknowledgment of the benefits of Christ therein given to all worthy Receivers, and for the avoiding of such profanation and disorder in the holy Communion, as might otherwise ensue; yet, lest the same kneeling should by any persons, either out of ignorance and infirmity, or out of malice and obstinacy, be misconstrued and depraved: It is hereby declared, That thereby no adoration is intended, or ought to be done, either unto the Sacramental Bread or Wine there bodily received, or unto any Corporal Presence of Christ’s natural Flesh and Blood. For the Sacramental Bread and Wine remain still in their very natural substances, and therefore may not be adored; (for that were Idolatry, to be abhorred of all faithful Christians; and the natural Body and Blood of our Saviour Christ are in Heaven, and not here; it being against the truth of Christ’s natural Body to be at one time in more places than one.”
The so-called Black Rubric. Added after publication to the 1552 BCP, removed from the 1559, and put back in the 1662. Some Anglicans affirm it.

GKC
 
It is an ancient heresy!

Already the Church Father St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 A.D.), disciple of the apostle s. John, writes:
The docetic Gnostics denied the Incarnation, that is they denied Jesus as coming in the flesh–He only appeared to be fleshly. Hence they would naturally not accept the Eucharist as being Jesus’ body and blood because they didn’t believe He had a body and blood to begin with.

What is puzzling to me is that people such as Zwingli who firmly believe in the Incarnation, that the Son of God became flesh, do not also believe that He can become Incarnate today under the appearance of bread and wine.
 
The so-called Black Rubric. Added after publication to the 1552 BCP, removed from the 1559, and put back in the 1662. Some Anglicans affirm it.

GKC
You mean there is no Anglican consensus on this!?! You guys are as bad as catholics… 😛
 
Manualman and Timothy,

Affirm your posts here. The first people to reject Jesus’ teachings were His many followers. When He introduced the means of gaining divinity…through eating…not of the forbidden fruit, but of the tree of life, Jesus Himself, they were aghast and turned away. Think of it. They had been with him for some time, saw His miracles, listened to His many teachings and now this, and they broke their relationship with Him.

St. Peter responded in so many words, ‘where could we go? Only you can give us eternal life.’
 
Manualman and Timothy,

Affirm your posts here. The first people to reject Jesus’ teachings were His many followers. When He introduced the means of gaining divinity…through eating…not of the forbidden fruit, but of the tree of life, Jesus Himself, they were aghast and turned away. Think of it. They had been with him for some time, saw His miracles, listened to His many teachings and now this, and they broke their relationship with Him.

St. Peter responded in so many words, ‘where could we go? Only you can give us eternal life.’
KG, this is fun! So if Jesus IS the tree of life, then the first humans to reject the Eucharist were… Adam and Eve (when they ate the forbidden fruit instead of the fruit from the tree of life)!

Ancient error indeed!
 
Well, Jesus was not announced yet…but the constellations in the sky did later on…

Abraham was redirected by Angel Gabriel to take the ram stuck in the bush, to be sacrificed instead.

Jesus chose to be born in the Constellation of Aries – the Ram…Jesus, the Son, the Little Lamb.

This timing not only spoke to those who would believe in Him, but to people of faith, and finally to all mankind in all times.
 
Why Protestant group first rejected the Eucharist/Real Presence? Lutherans and Anglicans believe in it if I’m not mistaken, so where did it all go wrong?
Easily…the Jews who walked away never to follow Jesus again…thumbsup:
 
I thought of this, but on reflection considered they were rejecting the faith as a whole, not just the real presence, yet still partaking of the “communion” meal.
Yes…which lead to the denial of the Real Presence.Partaking of it is the easy part, ACCEPTING what Jesus taught and said is where faith is tested.
 
Yes…which lead to the denial of the Real Presence.Partaking of it is the easy part, ACCEPTING what Jesus taught and said is where faith is tested.
Interesting. After writing that post I was not as clear as I wanted to be. What the point was the folks in John 6 left the faith completely. What they did not do is deny the real presence while still claiming Christianity, at least as far as we know.

As you say though, many today partake without believing which has its consequences.
 
Interesting. After writing that post I was not as clear as I wanted to be. What the point was the folks in John 6 left the faith completely. What they did not do is deny the real presence while still claiming Christianity, at least as far as we know.

As you say though, many today partake without believing which has its consequences.
Actually I disagree with your interpretation. Why did they leave the faith completely? Because what Jesus had said about His flesh and blood. So they did deny the real presence. Read John 6 again and at what point they left.
 
Actually I disagree with your interpretation. Why did they leave the faith completely? Because what Jesus had said about His flesh and blood. So they did deny the real presence. Read John 6 again and at what point they left.
Yup that’s true. But regarding the original OP question as to the first Protestant group who rejected the real presence. As far as we know those who did not remain with Christ in John 6 left the faith completely. The Protestants remained within Christianity. That was all.

So you are correct, those in John 6 are the first we know who left because of the teaching of Christianity.
 
And likewise, Christians who reject 2000 years of liturgy likewise without realizing it, employ relativism to reduce Christ to symbolism rather than concrete reality who died on the Cross, rose from the dead, broke the power of sin and death, and was glorified into heaven, where He stands, wounded but triumphant before the Heavenly Father, and unites Himself, present to us through the Holy Spirit at Mass.

Christ said, ‘Do this in memory of Me’. You have to understand Jewish history of liturgy to understand and see the connection. The Be’kaa…the memorial, a Jewish custom of remembering and ritual re-enacting and making present now what happened in the past.

When Christ said, ‘Do this in memory of Me’…this is now the new liturgy, the new form of worship…God given, not created by man. This is divinely ordered worship…The Lord is asking us to worship in through the Memorial.

And if you study Judaism, there is this ancient custom of breaking of bread, and giving God thanks for one’s daily nourishment.

Going back to Adam and Eve, there were two trees that were named in the garden, one forbidden, and one good. One was called, ‘The tree of knowledge of good and evil’ that was forbidden, The other was called, ‘The Tree of Life’. Satan tempted Eve by saying if she ate of the fruit she would be like the gods.

Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden, but in front of them stood the Tree of Life always in front of them…to be fulfilled in some way, to bring life back to humanity in God’s time. There was an angel with a sword of fire preventing them from approaching the Tree of LIfe.

Later, Jesus would die on a tree…that is, wood taken from a tree…to become life for us.

Likewise, Jesus fulfilled the custom of the breaking of bread, He fulfilled Melchizedek as High Priest, who instead of bringing blood gifts, brought bread and wine to the king after battle…

Jesus revealed to us this new concept of heaven…that it would be as a banquet table, and Revelations really is reflecting the Mass, the New Jerusalem…

It is not human power that one is witnessing in the Catholic church. Ask any priest or ecclesiastic, and they are helpless without God.

The power and authority one is witnessing in the Church, because we have remained faithful, more or less, to the witness of St Peter and the apostles, that we are actually recipients of Jesus’ Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.

It is Jesus Christ Who is the life of the Church. When we are in grace and being nourished by the sacraments and the summit of the Eucharist, we are drawing on supernatural means of nourishment.

Our main mission in life as Catholics is holiness. When we go to Mass, we are leaving this world and entering God 's place, His time – the eternal present, we stand still in the pews…but the Holy Spirit is carrying all of us together closer every day we are alive to the altar of the Heavenly Father through Jesus in heaven.

Our particular calling in the growth of holiness is our daily growth into communion with the Holy Trinity. When we are in communion with the Holy Trinity, in spite of our imperfections, as Church, we cover each other’s sins with charity. Together we experience communion with the Holy Trinity, and subsequently, we experience communion with all creation around us.

No matter our personal sufferings and the world’s lack of faith, this nourishment of Christ is our source of happiness and peace, and it causes us to be ready to serve Him in our neighbor, to express our faith in Him in beauty and truth.

This is the effect of belief in the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. To outsiders this is cannibalism. But in the Mass, all is transcended into basic representations of our daily bread and drink but heavenly food that unites with heaven.

God is so beautiful, God is so much of Love and kindness and majesty!
 
It is an ancient heresy!

Already the Church Father St. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 A.D.), disciple of the apostle s. John, writes:
“They * abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again.” (Letter to Smyrnians 7:1)*
 
Yup that’s true. But regarding the original OP question as to the first Protestant group who rejected the real presence. As far as we know those who did not remain with Christ in John 6 left the faith completely. The Protestants remained within Christianity. That was all.

So you are correct, those in John 6 are the first we know who left because of the teaching of Christianity.
Protestants remained within Christianity…to a certain point. Yes,they left because of the RP…no other reason.
 
Why Protestant group first rejected the Eucharist/Real Presence? Lutherans and Anglicans believe in it if I’m not mistaken, so where did it all go wrong?
It all went wrong when the Catholic Church back in the 1500’s give or take a century was terribly corrupt so some guys (Luther, et al) came along and “protested” thus “protestants” which no-one seems to want to be called today. Anyway, the “protesters” went off from the one true faith and started their own versions of christianity. The Eucharist/Real Presence is only present at a Catholic Mass and this is the major division between all.
 
And what was revealing to me in my studies, is that the Protestant Reformation was also combined with nationalism was sweeping Germany. The Roman Catholic Church was morphed into the Church of England, and many Catholics there were forced to join, and the general population saw its monasteries destroyed who used to sustain them.
 
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