First group to reject the Eucharist?

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mayogirl25 said:
It all went wrong when the Catholic Church back in the 1500’s give or take a century was terribly corrupt so some guys (Luther, et al) came along and “protested” thus “protestants” which no-one seems to want to be called today. Anyway, the “protesters” went off from the one true faith and started their own versions of christianity.
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Two points, if I may.
  1. Luther and Lutherans confess the fact of the real presence, so groups that reject it have nothing to do with Lutheranism, or Luther.
  2. The term protestant has nothing to do with a “protest” of the Catholic Church, but instead has it origin in the protests at the Second Diet at Speyer in 1529.
The Eucharist/Real Presence is only present at a Catholic Mass and this is the major division between all.
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Catholic Church doesn’t teach this. IT accepts as valid the Eucharist in a number of communions not in communion with the Bishop of Rome.
Finally, of the Lutheran Eucharist, Cardinal Ratzinger said:
I count among the most important results of the ecumenical dialogues the insight that the issue of the eucharist cannot be narrowed to the problem of ‘validity.’ Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord [Heilschaffende Gegenwart des Herrn] in a Lutheran [evangelische] Lord’s Supper
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While we appreciate his words, we don’t need them to know that on a Sunday at a Lutheran church, His real body and blood are indeed present.

Jon
 
JIB said:
Why Protestant group first rejected the Eucharist/Real Presence? Lutherans and Anglicans believe in it if I’m not mistaken, so where did it all go wrong?
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JIB,

It did not start with the Protestants it started way before that!

John 6, 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.

And even many of Jesus own disciples did not believe that you MUST eat His Flesh and drink His Blood to be saved… Read below bible verse

John 6, 60 Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it?

John 6, 66 After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him.

JIB, we all know that the mark of the beast is 666 I don’t think John 6,66 is a coincidence but a Godincidence that any body that does not believe in the real presence of the Eucharist being 100% the Body and Blood of Savior Jesus Christ that we must eat and drink for the salvation of our souls is an anti-Christ

The above where the first protestants that Jesus Christ dealt with and how very sad he was with them as He is with many now in our day of age.

Ufamtobie
 
We as Catholics are not just called to enter into the life of Christ to enjoy the effects of liberation.

We as Catholics are called to our greatest vocation: Holiness.

What is holiness? It is entering into communion with the Holy Trinity through the faith handed down to us from the Apostles, and the laying of hands by the bishop in ordination passes on the grace of this sacred and apostolic unity.

Jon, I see in you from the beginning a spirit of communion.

But the problem with Lutheranism is simply the break in communion, and not being able to concretely commune with us. The sacraments are concrete, outer signs. If we cannot come together, the unity then is reduced to symbolism.
 
KathleenGee said:
…and not being able to concretely commune with us. The sacraments are concrete, outer signs. If we cannot come together, the unity then is reduced to symbolism.
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Kathleen, I understand what you’re saying, but may I respectfully disagree in a way:

Lutherans would say that those sacraments come to us from God or indeed are God. Given that God died for all sinners, those sacraments are the same for all of us, and it’s precisely at those times when we receive the Eucharist, that we are at at state of less symbolism.

In my mind, the sacraments are the reality of the full truth, it’s the rest of the world that is symbolic the further away you get from those sacraments. "

“This is real food” - and at the time we are both on our knees, receiving the lord, at that moment we are as close to each other as we can be on this side of God’s heaven.
 
manualman said:
Older than that even. In John 6, Jesus had some followers simply walk away from him when he told them that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood. And the first Eucharist hadn’t even happened yet!

Think about that. These people listened, believed and followed Jesus right up until he revealed the truth about the final and enduring sacrifice. No wonder people still reject it.
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End thread right here. Well done.

God bless
 
Why thank you Jon. I pray all has been well. I’ve been around, lurking. Raising two little monsters zaps most all my spare posting time though 😉

God bless Jon
 
I sympathize to Lutherans here.

What we have to recall is that Christ established only one Church…and they had freedom to oversee their own jurisdictions and assimilate their cultures.

The work of rite and ritual and authority comes from Christ and those licitly chosen and consecrated in spirit and truth. If we separate the sacraments and the good that they are from the lawful authority that has overseen it since the beginning and all the thought and study in implementing new rites or cultural traditions, it can only be done so when we are together.

The problem with Protestantism is its break with the universal Church and giving itself right to personal interpretation for that which is meant to be public and communal.

I was driving home this am from my night shift, and I was leaving a most exclusive area of the city…and the unique individualism in each beautiful home I passed by. Each one was so different in some cases from each other. It is our right, our lifestyle here, to express ourselves as individuals.

I also remember Johannesburg where I spent about 2 months. My hosts told me everything about the appearance of the house was to be uniform…white houses outside and particular roofs. It did look more beautiful. A priest from England also noted our individuality and really liked it, he saying that over there the houses are uniform.

Such things are a matter of choice and culture.

But as we come to Christ and Christ is our unity and not our preferences, and that He is operating through the Church…I only pray and hope for full and actual communion. You can have your ecclesial traditions and customs, Biblical Studies in the Catholic Church which allow those to gather for reflections using their own interpretation…even feminist.

Otherwise the fruit of our communion is in spirit schismatic. I cannot help you, pray for you, assist you because I actually do not know you because you do not commune with us.

Full communion restores us to the apostolic succession, to the seat of Peter, and actual unity where we can communicate and serve one another.
 
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