First Latin Mass

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Dmitri77

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So I attended my first Latin mass this morning. I was a little disappointed as I expected there to be more smells and bells. Now I’ve learned there is a high and low mass and apparently what I witnessed was a low may. It’s in an extremely beautiful church that was built at the turn of the last century. Another thing that impressed me was there was a very long line for confession. On the surface it appears to be a spiritually healthy parish.

I would also say it was kind of surreal knowing that according to the rules of the Catholic Church I could legitimately present myself for communion. Either way it was a nice experience. My next trip will be to the Syriac Catholic parish down the street from me. I want to check them out too.
 
Hi Dmitri, I’m glad you had a positive experience, even if somewhat disappointing. Definitely visit a High Mass if you get the chance. It has a more similar “feel” to the Byzantine liturgy, not only in terms of smells and bells, but in having chant throughout, and layers of activity.
 
Dmitri77 said:
So I attended my first Latin mass this morning. I was a little disappointed as I expected there to be more smells and bells. Now I’ve learned there is a high and low mass and apparently what I witnessed was a low may. It’s in an extremely beautiful church that was built at the turn of the last century. Another thing that impressed me was there was a very long line for confession. On the surface it appears to be a spiritually healthy parish.

I would also say it was kind of surreal knowing that according to the rules of the Catholic Church I could legitimately present myself for communion. Either way it was a nice experience. My next trip will be to the Syriac Catholic parish down the street from me. I want to check them out too.
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However, I will ruffle feathers and state that your Byzantine praxis (I am presuming you’re Byzantine) beats out the Latin Mass several times over in the aesthetics department.

I sometimes chuckle when I hear TLM afficionados (of which I am one) call the Latin Mass (esp. the High Mass or Pontifical High Mass) the “most beautiful thing this side of heaven.” My retort to that is: nah. That honour belongs to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
 
porthos11 said:
However, I will ruffle feathers and state that your Byzantine praxis (I am presuming you’re Byzantine) beats out the Latin Mass several times over in the aesthetics department.

I sometimes chuckle when I hear TLM afficionados (of which I am one) call the Latin Mass (esp. the High Mass or Pontifical High Mass) the “most beautiful thing this side of heaven.” My retort to that is: nah. That honour belongs to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
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Well I have never had any skin in the game and I have to disagree with you. The Divine Liturgy is glorious and I encourage everyone to participate in one, but the Tridentine Latin Mass to me, is the window of time where Heaven and Earth meet. I wouldn’t give it up for the world.
 
porthos11 said:
However, I will ruffle feathers and state that your Byzantine praxis (I am presuming you’re Byzantine) beats out the Latin Mass several times over in the aesthetics department.

I sometimes chuckle when I hear TLM afficionados (of which I am one) call the Latin Mass (esp. the High Mass or Pontifical High Mass) the “most beautiful thing this side of heaven.” My retort to that is: nah. That honour belongs to the Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
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The Divine Liturgy certainly is much more lavish though the simplicity of the Latin mass has it’s own appeal. And like I said if I had seen a high mass I’m sure I would have liked it better. I’m blessed to live in a town with a lot of liurgical choices. We have 7 Chalcedonian Orthodox parishes, an OCA, Romanian, two Russian, a Serbian, a Greek and an Antiochian parish. On the non-Chalcedonian with have a Coptic, a Syriac an Armenian and two Indian Orthodox parishes. We also have a Syriac Catholic parish. I’m Eastern Orthodox and nothing will ever change that but it is fascinating to experience the variety of liturgies available in my area.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Well I have never had any skin in the game and I have to disagree with you. The Divine Liturgy is glorious and I encourage everyone to participate in one, but the Tridentine Latin Mass to me, is the window of time where Heaven and Earth meet. I wouldn’t give it up for the world.
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That’s also the case with the Divine Liturgy: where heaven and earth meet. Vladimir’s emissaries said as much.

There is a reason Russia is Byzantine and not Roman.

But that said: I’m Roman and will stay Roman. My affinity is towards the Roman Mass, EF and OF and the Roman Divine Office/Liturgy of the Hours. Just speaking in terms of sheer aesthetics here.
 
The latin mass allows you understand the deep air of Catholicism.
 
Glad you enjoyed it! The EF Mass is a blessing for the Church.

I read an article today that was from the early days of Pope Francis’ papacy, in which he spoke of how we as Latin Rite Catholics can learn a lot from our Eastern Rite and Orthodox bretheren’s liturgies. I wish I could find it now-- it seems apt for this conversation!

Anyway, hopefully you’ll stop back again sometime… Perhaps for a High Mass? 😉
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Well I have never had any skin in the game and I have to disagree with you. The Divine Liturgy is glorious and I encourage everyone to participate in one, but the Tridentine Latin Mass to me, is the window of time where Heaven and Earth meet. I wouldn’t give it up for the world.
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Yeah it was crowded and like I said there was a long line for confession. It was nice to see. When I first started looking at becoming a Christian I signed up for RCIA at this parish. It would have been my home parish. Of course while waiting for RCIA to start I took one Sunday and walked in the local Greek Orthodox parish during liturgy and the rest is history. :cool:
 
Dmitri77 said:
So I attended my first Latin mass this morning. I was a little disappointed as I expected there to be more smells and bells. Now I’ve learned there is a high and low mass and apparently what I witnessed was a low may. It’s in an extremely beautiful church that was built at the turn of the last century. Another thing that impressed me was there was a very long line for confession. On the surface it appears to be a spiritually healthy parish.

I would also say it was kind of surreal knowing that according to the rules of the Catholic Church I could legitimately present myself for communion. Either way it was a nice experience. My next trip will be to the Syriac Catholic parish down the street from me. I want to check them out too.
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Communion is only allowed for Catholics in a state of grace; you are mistaken. I’m happy to know that you are trying out the Catholic Church, and if you decide to convert you will be welcomed gladly. But until you decide to do that, you need to know that the Blessed Sacrament is not administered to anyone outside the Church.

God bless you.
 
henry_rex said:
Communion is only allowed for Catholics in a state of grace; you are mistaken. I’m happy to know that you are trying out the Catholic Church, and if you decide to convert you will be welcomed gladly. But until you decide to do that, you need to know that the Blessed Sacrament is not administered to anyone outside the Church.

God bless you.
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Incorrect. Here is the answer from the USCCB, which also lists the relevant Canon.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/guidelines-for-the-reception-of-communion.cfm

What pertains to him would be under the subtitle “For Our Fellow Christians”, where it specifically mentions the Orthodox.
 
CB_Catholic said:
Incorrect. Here is the answer from the USCCB, which also lists the relevant Canon.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/guidelines-for-the-reception-of-communion.cfm

What pertains to him would be under the subtitle “For Our Fellow Christians”, where it specifically mentions the Orthodox.
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I knew someone would disagree. Some will find this statement contradictory, but I don’t care what the USCCB says, I think it’s wrong. Some past Popes have insight on the matter.

Pope Pius VIII,
Traditi Humilitati
May 24, 1829:
“Jerome used to say it this way:
he who eats the Lamb outside this house will perish as
did those during the flood who were not with Noah in the ark.”

Pope Gregory XVI,
Commissum divinitus
May 17, 1835:
“… whoever dares to depart from the unity of Peter might understand that he no longer
shares in the divine mystery…‘
Whoever eats the Lamb outside of this house is unholy.’”

Pope Pius IX,
Amantissimus
April 8, 1862:
“… whoever eats of the Lamb and is not a member of the Church, has profaned.”

Think about it, it’s a pretty illogical thing to state that someone outside the Church can receive her sacraments.
 
henry_rex said:
I knew someone would disagree. Some will find this statement contradictory, but I don’t care what the USCCB says, I think it’s wrong. Some past Popes have insight on the matter.
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What you think is irrelevant in the face of the disposition of the hierarchy on this matter. Let us be perfectly clear. This is the current law, promulgated by the Pope:
*Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.

§4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.

§5. For the cases mentioned in §§2, 3, and 4, the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops is not to issue general norms except after consultation at least with the local competent authority of the interested non-Catholic Church or community.*
The norms of the United States Conference of Bishops are thus absolutely correct.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
What you think is irrelevant in the face of the disposition of the hierarchy on this matter. Let us be perfectly clear. This is the current law, promulgated by the Pope:
*Can. 844 §1. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments licitly to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone, who likewise receive them licitly from Catholic ministers alone, without prejudice to the prescripts of §§2, 3, and 4 of this canon, and ⇒ can. 861, §2.

§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.*

§4. If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.

§5. For the cases mentioned in §§2, 3, and 4, the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops is not to issue general norms except after consultation at least with the local competent authority of the interested non-Catholic Church or community.
The norms of the United States Conference of Bishops are thus absolutely correct.
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Still not caring. I don’t agree with every single thing Rome says or has written. I’ve read these articles from the Code many times, and they make no sense; they’re self-contradicting. No one who is outside the Church can “licitly” receive her sacraments, that’s illogical. It doesn’t seem likely that several past Popes were delusional in writing on something so sacrosanctly important.

Anyway, your argument to the contrary has been made clear, thank you. I don’t agree with it.

God bless.
 
henry_rex said:
Still not caring. I don’t agree with every single thing Rome says or has written. I’ve read these articles from the Code many times, and they make no sense; they’re self-contradicting. No one who is outside the Church can “licitly” receive her sacraments, that’s illogical.

Anyway, your argument to the contrary has been made clear, thank you. I don’t agree with it.

God bless.
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You may not care, or agree but when Rome promulgates its canon law, whatever that canon law allows is licit. What is licit is whatever our current, not past laws make licit. Not yours, mine, or anyone else’s opinion. Rome has still spoken, and the debate remains ended.

the reasoning behind it is that the Orthodox churches are not completely “outside” the Church. We may not have full communion but they ARE true churches. This is why we allow them to receive with proper disposition.

What has not been said is that they are also expected to follow the discipline of their own churches, which is to NOT receive communion in Catholic churches.
 
henry_rex said:
Still not caring. I don’t agree with every single thing Rome says or has written. I’ve read these articles from the Code many times, and they make no sense; they’re self-contradicting. No one who is outside the Church can “licitly” receive her sacraments, that’s illogical.

Anyway, your argument to the contrary has been made clear, thank you. I don’t agree with it.

God bless.
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Then you are in defiance of the Church’s authority. You are in my prayers.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
Then you are in defiance of the Church’s authority. You are in my prayers.
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That’s a lie and an insult, typical internet behavior. Right, an Orthodox man can receive Communion in our church, and I am in need of prayers for defiance; zero sense made.

As for the prayers, thank you, everyone needs them.
 
porthos11 said:
However, I will ruffle feathers and state that your Byzantine praxis (I am presuming you’re Byzantine) beats out the Latin Mass several times over in the aesthetics department.
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Probably in the length-of-time department too. 🙂

But then anything can do better than the 7 minute pre-Vatican II Mass. :rolleyes:

Although I’m sure today’s EF High Mass is considerably longer than that.
 
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