First lesbian bishop to be consecrated by Anglican church in America

[larkin31]

my friend. i could bore you with with a story of what my mother was like, and the influences the 60’s had on her and my family. i wont go there. needless to say, the mindset of that era led to many problems, and an early death for her. not to mention disease and disharmony. thankfully i was adopted out, before things got too out of hand. also knowing many who lived during that time, i dont think all these new “freedoms” were the best thing for this Country. also health has declined more since that time. also a sense of responsibility has been replaced with a do what you want at expense of anyone else. I am what matters, i dont care who get hurts in the process. that is the legacy of the 60’s. Peace

So, as I said, one person’s difficult times (my sympathy) is another’s rescue. “Freedom” is indeed a dangerous thing, but we in this country prefer it over the opposite.

And if what you prefer is a return to, say, the 19th century, there would be several million who would die of starvation and disease–especially women and children–who would likely object.

 

[larkin31]

All this 60s talk for those too young to have actually been there has me wanting to sing some 5th Dimension!

Leeeeeeeeeet the sunshine. Leeeeeeeeeet the sunshine in. Ohhhhhhhhhhh leeeeeeeeeet the sunshiiiiine innnnnnnnnn. :yup: Peace :grouphug:

“When the mooooon is in the seventh pla-anet, and Jupiter ali-igns with Mars…”

 

[CMatt25]

“When the mooooon is in the seventh pla-anet, and Jupiter ali-igns with Mars…”

Then peace will guide the planets And love will steer the stars… Good job Larkin! :clapping:

 

[benidict]

All this 60s talk for those too young to have actually been there has me wanting to sing some 5th Dimension!

Leeeeeeeeeet the sunshine. Leeeeeeeeeet the sunshine in. Ohhhhhhhhhhh leeeeeeeeeet the sunshiiiiine innnnnnnnnn. :yup: Peace :grouphug:

oh ok! you win! i wasnt there! born in 1969. now how about some good black oak arkansas, been down a million gravel roooads carrrrying a heavy looooaad! for get that hokie hippy stuff. lets really rock! lol! peace

 

[CMatt25]

oh ok! you win! i wasnt there! born in 1969. now how about some good black oak arkansas, been down a million gravel roooads carrrrying a heavy looooaad! for get that hokie hippy stuff. lets really rock! lol! peace

1969? You even missed Vat2! Anyways peace to you as well my brother.

 

[benidict]

1969? You even missed Vat2! Anyways peace to you as well my brother.

if your really good, i will play stairway to heaven on my guitar:thumbsup: i can do that you know. i just cant quite capture the jimmy hendrix sound yet tho. but i play some mean Motley Crue! i now know, i am debating with the previous generation. this will do much to further the discussion. now i can see where you and larkin are coming from. Peace

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

But can you play Stairway all the way through along with that rippin’ solo? Try Rain Song, No Quarter, and Kashmir

if your really good, i will play stairway to heaven on my guitar:thumbsup: i can do that you know. i just cant quite capture the jimmy hendrix sound yet tho. but i play some mean Motley Crue! i now know, i am debating with the previous generation. this will do much to further the discussion. now i can see where you and larkin are coming from. Peace

 

[Stephen168]

So am I using statistics or am I using body function? You are just grabbing at straws at this point. You seem to have a canned response to Christians which doesn’t apply to what I’ve been saying. The answer is** I have been using design and purpose.** Our reproductive organs are designed for a unique purpose. There may be other uses but none of them are unique to their design. Using them contrary to their design is disordered behavior.

Warning: graphic sexual terminology follows:

A hand’s function is to hold, you said, which, as you suggest, can be put to several purposes, not all of which need to be for survival. A penis is designed for urination and penetration (conveyance of semen to the interior of a female). In the case of several forms of human sexual behavior, and in the strictest of analogies in my argument, neither the location for the urine nor the semen has been stipulated. If you wish to control the location of the semen, then, to be consistent, one must control the location and use of the hands, the penis for urine, etc. In other words, why say that a hand can be put to any use as long as it holds but then say that a penis can be used to ejaculate ONLY in a reproductive setting?

I repeat: you are applying a standard to sexual behavior that you do not apply to other behaviors. I would just like to know the reasoning on which one does this, and to such an extreme as to stipulate that ejaculation outside a vagina is more of a disordered behavior than, say, holding a gun.

Design and purpose, grasshopper.
Meditate on the unique design and purpose of which you speak; and someday you may be able to snatch the pebble from my hand.

 

[benidict]

But can you play Stairway all the way through along with that rippin’ solo? Try Rain Song, No Quarter, and Kashmir

on the piano, i can play it all the way through, including the ripping solo. but admit, i still cannot get the solo down smooth yet on the guitar. ive only been playing for two years. give me time tho. ill get it done, plus the other 2. i do like to play dazed an confused, immigrant song, houses of the holy and rock-n-roll tho. got those down. Peace

 

[CMatt25]

if your really good, i will play stairway to heaven on my guitar:thumbsup: i can do that you know. i just cant quite capture the jimmy hendrix sound yet tho. but i play some mean Motley Crue! i now know, i am debating with the previous generation. this will do much to further the discussion. now i can see where you and larkin are coming from. Peace

Well for me not exactly the previous generation. Just a bit earlier in the same generation. But I did make it out of the womb when the world was still in your pre 60s glory yrs. :yup:

 

[benidict]

Well for me not exactly the previous generation. Just a bit earlier in the same generation. But I did make it out of the womb when the world was still in your pre 60s glory yrs. :yup:

lol! gotcha. well from what i can see, we are looking at this issue from different time frames, my parents would probably agree with you. on this issue. so i guess this makes me the rebel. it has been interesting, but i will leave this to people who are more on the same wave length to debate. thank you for your candid responses, and even though it has been heated at times, i think we did well at being charitable. peace to you and yours.

 

[CMatt25]

lol! gotcha. well from what i can see, we are looking at this issue from different time frames, my parents would probably agree with you. on this issue. so i guess this makes me the rebel. it has been interesting, but i will leave this to people who are more on the same wave length to debate. thank you for your candid responses, and even though it has been heated at times, i think we did well at being charitable. peace to you and yours.

I think we did too All of us who profess and are united in Christ are really just striving to be together in the end anyway when you think about it. Even Larkin appears to have the love your neighbor part down pretty well. So perhaps good practice for us all to be charitable. Thank you and to you and yours as well.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’m 35, been playin’ since I was 12. Still don’t have that solo down! LOL…If you want to really drive yourself insane, try playing Steve Howe!

on the piano, i can play it all the way through, including the ripping solo. but admit, i still cannot get the solo down smooth yet on the guitar. ive only been playing for two years. give me time tho. ill get it done, plus the other 2. i do like to play dazed an confused, immigrant song, houses of the holy and rock-n-roll tho. got those down. Peace

 

[benidict]

I’m 35, been playin’ since I was 12. Still don’t have that solo down! LOL…If you want to really drive yourself insane, try playing Steve Howe!

or how bout the late great stevie ray vaughn? his rendition of jimmy hendrix’s voodoo child, is out of this world! :bowdown: and if you dont have that solo down from stairway, i dont feel to bad about where im at. lol!

 

[larkin31]

Design and purpose, grasshopper.
Meditate on the unique design and purpose of which you speak; and someday you may be able to snatch the pebble from my hand.

So, you have no explanation for your double standard?

 

[Stephen168]

So, you have no explanation for your double standard?

There is no double standard, grasshopper. Just meditate on the unique design and purpose of which you speak.

And, so you know, my mother only became happy in her marriage once she could control her reproduction (after a fourth son in a row) in 1962……

If that statement actually makes sense to you, you have a lot more thinking to do.

 

[larkin31]

There is no double standard, grasshopper. Just meditate on the unique design and purpose of which you speak.

If that statement actually makes sense to you, you have a lot more thinking to do.

Now you are just being smug. You have not addressed my points specifically in any direct way. I take this to mean that you are not actually interested in further discussion on the topic.

 

[Stephen168]

Now you are just being smug. You have not addressed my points specifically in any direct way. I take this to mean that you are not actually interested in further discussion on the topic.

As a child I was somehow led to believe that legal was moral. In my very early teens, I noticed that government would ban things which were moral and allow things which were immoral. What is moral; is a question I’ve been thinking about ever since. Does it come out of a natural order of things or does a group of folks get together and randomly make up stuff? And where does the Church fit into all this? Being one of those long-haired hippie types, I looked to nature and the natural order of things; and that is where I began to find it. I also noticed along the way it didn’t conflict with what the Church has to say about Morality. When what appeared to me to be a double standard would appear, I would just think about it. After some time (years maybe), the fog would lift, and the double standard would go away.

Homosexual acts are against natural design as I have shown you. The Church happens to agree. Other Christian groups seem to prefer the “if it feels good, it is good” approach to morality, which you have admitted has it problems.

My goal was to show how homosexual behavior is disordered behavior without opening the bible. I have done that. You are right, at this point I don’t see any benefit in explaining every problem you perceive in orthodoxy Christian teaching. I would hope you would just think about the idea that orthodoxy Christian teaching might have something worthwhile to say.

 

[larkin31]

…My goal was to show how homosexual behavior is disordered behavior without opening the bible. I have done that.

You did not demonstrate this; you only claimed it. I keep asking you to explain the paradox (inconsistencies) in your position, and you simply tell me to study it more in a condescending way.

Again: ,How is ejaculation without possibility of conception any more “disordered” than using a mouth to sing? Either one, done exclusively, will lead to a failure to procreate. Either one, done occasionally, will not. Both behaviors put to use the organs in question using the full functionality of the body. Both behaviors are not reproductive, nor life sustaining.

So why do you chastise the one but not the other?

You are right, at this point I don’t see any benefit in explaining every problem you perceive in orthodoxy Christian teaching. I would hope you would just think about the idea that orthodoxy Christian teaching might have something worthwhile to say.

I am not questioning all Catholic doctrine. I very purposely do not do that. I am only questioning the moral criticism of non-reproductive sexual behavior. I see no logic in it.

 

[Anna_Scott]

gurneyhalleck1,

I find your arguments for leaving the Episcopal Church a bit ironic. If Christians worked things out from “within” the Church, we probably would not be having this conversation. We would all be Catholics.

Anna

With all due respect, Anna, I don’t think you read my post carefully. I said that the conservatives in the TEC should LEAVE the Episcopal Church and work for change from without not from within? My entire post said that it’s fruitless to stay inside TEC and make change? I’m not sure how you inferred or gleaned the irony of staying from my post when I went out of my way to say staying is a wasted, fruitless endeavor? My whole point is these people should BOLT and hit the bricks for either ACNA, TAC, or some other Anglican entity but definitely not TEC.

gurney,

I’m sorry I didn’t make my post clear enough. I realize your point was, “staying is a wasted, fruitless endeavor? My whole point is these people should BOLT and hit the bricks for either ACNA, TAC, or some other Anglican entity but definitely not TEC.”

The point of my comment was that “bolting,” as you put it, is not always the best choice (though I cannot say, if I will stay or leave TEC.) Protestants are criticized repeatedly on the forums for breaking away (“bolting”) from a Church or denomination, because they disagree with the leadership. It is for this reason that I said your comments were ironic. If the Protestant Reformers, Anglicans, Orthodox Christians, etc. stayed and worked through disagreements from “within” the Catholic Church, we would all be Catholic.

That is what I meant by saying, “If Christians worked things out from “within” the Church, we probably would not be having this conversation. We would all be Catholics.”

Hope this clarified my post.

Anna