First Openly Transgender Person Ordained in the ELCA

[Thorolfr]

Interesting news from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America:

Asher O’Callaghan will be ordained Thursday, July 2, 2015 in Denver, Colorado to serve the Rocky Mountain Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA).

O’Callaghan is the first openly transgender person to be ordained through the regular process of the ELCA. Other openly transgender pastors were ordained prior to 2009 and outside the regular process of the ELCA. The ELCA voted in 2009 to ordain partnered gay and lesbian persons opening the door to widen the acceptance of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender (LGBTQ) people in ministry (see cbsnews.com/news/lutherans-to-allow-gays-in-clergy/). O’Callaghan has been called by Zion Lutheran Church in Idaho Springs, Colorado to serve as their pastor.

elm.org/news/

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Do you approve or disapprove of the ordination?

 

[Memaw]

Do you approve or disapprove of the ordination?

I only approve of what God approves of. God Bless, Memaw

 

[josh987654321]

Interesting news from the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America:

elm.org/news/

Yes, very interesting, and baffling for me too. I would recommend they read the Bible again, starting at the beginning.

Chapter 1
The Book of Genesis 1:27:

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The Gospel of Matthew:

4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one’? 6 So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”

The Gospel of Mark:

6 But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one.’ So they are no longer two but one. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”

I believe there is not one man or woman who does not suffer from an immoral desire of some kind (all in different areas and at different intensities) and that our desires are not who we are, because we make that choice. And that when one falls, one raises with humble and firm trust in the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Memaw]

Very interesting, and baffling for me too. I would recommend they read the Bible again, starting at the beginning.

Chapter 1

I believe there is not one man or woman who does not suffer from an immoral desire of some kind (all in different areas and at different intensities) and that our desires are not who we are, because we make that choice. And that when one falls, one raises with humble and firm trust in the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

AMEN, God Bless, Memaw

 

[InNomineDomini]

Oh, Martin Luther. What have you done? You’ve made a fool of everyone…

 

[JonNC]

Yes, very interesting, and baffling for me too. I would recommend they read the Bible again, starting at the beginning.

Chapter 1

I believe there is not one man or woman who does not suffer from an immoral desire of some kind (all in different areas and at different intensities) and that our desires are not who we are, because we make that choice. And that when one falls, one raises with humble and firm trust in the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Josh,
Thank you. There is noticeable irony that it takes a good Catholic to remind the ELCA, an ostensibly Lutheran and sola scripturist community, that they need to look at scripture in this regard.

Jon

 

[benjohnson]

It would be helpful if the ELCA would remember the second word in their name now and then.

 

[Lucretius]

I feel bad for the person. Even from a mere secular view, people with transgender tendencies are deluding themselves, believing that they are something they are not. Our culture is absolutely wicked for encouraging transgenderism. It’s like encouraging alcoholism

We should pray for this person

Christi pax,

Lucretius

St. Thomas, pray for us!

 

[JonNC]

I feel bad for the person. Even from a mere secular view, people with transgender tendencies are deluding themselves, believing that they are something they are not. Our culture is absolutely wicked for encouraging transgenderism. It’s like encouraging alcoholism

We should pray for this person

Christi pax,

Lucretius

St. Thomas, pray for us!

I join my prayers to yours, and all the saints.

Jon

 

[MaryT777]

Yes, very interesting, and baffling for me too. I would recommend they read the Bible again, starting at the beginning.

Chapter 1

I believe there is not one man or woman who does not suffer from an immoral desire of some kind (all in different areas and at different intensities) and that our desires are not who we are, because we make that choice. And that when one falls, one raises with humble and firm trust in the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Well said Josh. Words of wisdom indeed.

 

[drac16]

So much for Sola Scriptura…

 

[MaryT777]

So much for Sola Scriptura…

Agreed.

Mary.

 

[benjohnson]

So much for Sola Scriptura…

Not so much a case of SS, but Ignoro Scriptura

 

[drac16]

Not so much a case of SS, but Ignoro Scriptura

I know-- that’s what I meant. I’m not sure if MaryT777 caught on to that.

No matter. It’s caving in to the radical demands of a carnal world, but still holding to the title of ‘Lutheran’. The topic creator professes to be a Lutheran, but judging by his/her posts on homosexuality, I imagine he/she is strongly in favor of this ruling. I don’t like deceit, so when a Lutheran embraces homosexuality or transgenderism and is open about it, that is deceit.

Don’t urinate upon Sola Scriptura and claim to follow it in the next breath. That’s what’s going on with this ruling. Heck, we have a bunch of proffessing muslims who are now pro-homosexual. I feel like I’m the loneliest religious person in the world because I hold to the historical understanding of marriage.

 

[MaryT777]

I know-- that’s what I meant. I’m not sure if MaryT777 caught on to that.

No matter. It’s caving in to the radical demands of a carnal world, but still holding to the title of ‘Lutheran’. The topic creator professes to be a Lutheran, but judging by his/her posts on homosexuality, I imagine he/she is strongly in favor of this ruling. I don’t like deceit, so when a Lutheran embraces homosexuality or transgenderism and is open about it, that is deceit.

Don’t urinate upon Sola Scriptura and claim to follow it in the next breath. That’s what’s going on with this ruling. Heck, we have a bunch of proffessing muslims who are now pro-homosexual. I feel like I’m the loneliest religious person in the world because I hold to the historical understanding of marriage.

Well said, and yes I did understand what you meant.

Mary.

 

[Thorolfr]

The topic creator professes to be a Lutheran, but judging by his/her posts on homosexuality, I imagine he/she is strongly in favor of this ruling. I don’t like deceit, so when a Lutheran embraces homosexuality or transgenderism and is open about it, that is deceit.

This, of course, makes no sense. The definition of deceit is, “the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating.” If someone is open and honest about what they believe, that is the opposite of concealing or misleading. There might be disagreement about what Lutherans must believe and about what it means to be a Lutheran, but that does not mean that there is any deceit.

Also, the decision by the ELCA to become more welcoming and inclusive for LGBT people (including clergy) was done through a democratic process (and guided by the holy spirit) in its 65 synod assemblies and its Churchwide Assembly and represents the will and the beliefs of a majority of its more than 3 million members. Nothing about this process has been concealed or done for the purpose of misleading.

 

[steido01]

This, of course, makes no sense. The definition of deceit is, “the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating.” If someone is open and honest about what they believe, that is the opposite of concealing or misleading. There might be disagreement about what Lutherans must believe and about what it means to be a Lutheran, but that does not mean that there is any deceit.

If it’s not intentional deceit, it’s unintentional disregard for the Confessions.

Also, the decision by the ELCA to become more welcoming and inclusive for LGBT people (including clergy) was done through a democratic process in its 65 synod assemblies and its Churchwide Assembly and represents the will and the beliefs of a majority of its more than 3 million members. Nothing about this process has been concealed or done for the purpose of misleading.

The church is not a democracy and articles of faith, morals, doctrine and dogma are not up for a politicized vote.

 

[drac16]

This, of course, makes no sense. The definition of deceit is, “the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating.” If someone is open and honest about what they believe, that is the opposite of concealing or misleading. There might be disagreement about what Lutherans must believe and about what it means to be a Lutheran, but that does not mean that there is any deceit.

Also, the decision by the ELCA to become more welcoming and inclusive for LGBT people (including clergy) was done through a democratic process (and guided by the holy spirit) in its 65 synod assemblies and its Churchwide Assembly and represents the will and the beliefs of a majority of its more than 3 million members. Nothing about this process has been concealed or done for the purpose of misleading.

The name “Lutheran” comes from “Luther”, as in Martin Luther, the reformer. Disagreement, if you want to call it that, among Lutherans in regards to homosexuality is only made possible when Sola Scriptura is cast aside. If the Bible is treated as the only infallible rule of faith, there would be no disagreements on homosexuality. Do I, as a muslim, really have to coach someone on what the Bible says? I can go to Romans 1, 1Corinthians 6, and Genesis if you really want me to, but I hope it doesn’t have to come to that.

I’m sorry to hear that the Lutheran Church’s understanding of transgenderism is fragile enough to be left up to a vote. We’re talking about the very purpose of God’s creation and purpose in making one male and another female-- and the purposes therein. Was Martin Luther so confused about the Bible that his disbelief in it started at Genesis chapter 2?

Look, you can practice in private whatever you want, but when someone uses the name of Christ and associates it with pro-transgenderism or what have you, I take offense to that. It’s no different than if someone were to associate Muhammad’s name with pro-transgenderism. Christ [peace be upon him] is one of the prophets of my Faith. Caving in to transgender ideology is faithful neither to Luther, nor to Christ, hence my accusation of you using deceit to promote your beliefs (which I fully stand by, by the way).

 

[Thorolfr]

Look, you can practice in private whatever you want, but when someone uses the name of Christ and associates it with pro-transgenderism or what have you, I take offense to that…Caving in to transgender ideology is faithful neither to Luther, nor to Christ, hence my accusation of you using deceit to promote your beliefs (which I fully stand by, by the way).

A Lutheran being lectured on a Catholic forum by a Muslim about what it means to be a Christian and a Lutheran…That’s a new one for me.