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JimG
Guest
And that would be fine, if the church had private confessions.
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babochka
Guest
First of all, let me state that it makes me concerned and angry for the children that some parishes feel free to disregard canon law on this matter. I also think it is pretty weird that someone would want to photograph their child’s first confession, although I don’t think it is horrible to photograph confession in general. Canon law is clear on the matter; all penitents have a right to confession behind a fixed grill and it remains the norm of the Latin church, while face to face confession is available at the discretion of the priest.
Having said that…
I know that it is difficult when things change. We have these ideas that the way we were taught is exactly has it has always been, exactly as it is supposed to be. This seems to be especially true if one was taught by nuns in the 40s and 50s.
There’s a saying that I have often heard in the Byzantine Catholic Church: “Tradition began the day your grandmother was born.” I have heard this saying as we have worked against internal pressures to recover the traditions of our Church. We have short memories, and if everyone we know has only experience things a certain way, it is easy to believe that this is a long standing tradition. An example of this is the modern practice (less than 100 years old) in the Latin Church of having First Communion occur before Confirmation.
The “traditional” confessional didn’t exist until 1564, when St. Charles Borromeo mandated that confessionals in his diocese be closed on both sides, with a grill between penitent and priest. His concern was modesty and propriety, not anonymity. This practice did not become universal until the 17th century. What were people doing for the sixteen centuries prior to that? First, they were confessing in public, to the entire Christian community. Private confession did not become the norm in the west until the 7th century. For 1000 years, people were confessing to a priest, one-on-one, without the benefit of “anonymity”. In the east, the concept of “anonymous” confession has never developed. At one time, canon law required that a person confess to his own pastor. We no longer have that requirement, but it is clear that the so-called anonymous confession is not a sacred tradition that has been a critical part of the sacrament since the beginning. Our needs change. Our sensibilities as a people change. Sometimes, ideas take root as unintended consequences of a good idea. For example, confessionals were established to protect modesty. Because of this, penitents were now given a certain amount of anonymity. Next thing you know, we view anonymity as a critical aspect of confession. Perhaps someday in the future, with generations growing up with face-to-face, it will once again become the norm and confession behind a screen will be viewed as kind of strange and uncomfortable. Let’s not always assume that new ways are bad, or liberal, or misguided.
Having said that…
I know that it is difficult when things change. We have these ideas that the way we were taught is exactly has it has always been, exactly as it is supposed to be. This seems to be especially true if one was taught by nuns in the 40s and 50s.
There’s a saying that I have often heard in the Byzantine Catholic Church: “Tradition began the day your grandmother was born.” I have heard this saying as we have worked against internal pressures to recover the traditions of our Church. We have short memories, and if everyone we know has only experience things a certain way, it is easy to believe that this is a long standing tradition. An example of this is the modern practice (less than 100 years old) in the Latin Church of having First Communion occur before Confirmation.The “traditional” confessional didn’t exist until 1564, when St. Charles Borromeo mandated that confessionals in his diocese be closed on both sides, with a grill between penitent and priest. His concern was modesty and propriety, not anonymity. This practice did not become universal until the 17th century. What were people doing for the sixteen centuries prior to that? First, they were confessing in public, to the entire Christian community. Private confession did not become the norm in the west until the 7th century. For 1000 years, people were confessing to a priest, one-on-one, without the benefit of “anonymity”. In the east, the concept of “anonymous” confession has never developed. At one time, canon law required that a person confess to his own pastor. We no longer have that requirement, but it is clear that the so-called anonymous confession is not a sacred tradition that has been a critical part of the sacrament since the beginning. Our needs change. Our sensibilities as a people change. Sometimes, ideas take root as unintended consequences of a good idea. For example, confessionals were established to protect modesty. Because of this, penitents were now given a certain amount of anonymity. Next thing you know, we view anonymity as a critical aspect of confession. Perhaps someday in the future, with generations growing up with face-to-face, it will once again become the norm and confession behind a screen will be viewed as kind of strange and uncomfortable. Let’s not always assume that new ways are bad, or liberal, or misguided.
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babochka
Guest
No, confession behind a screen is the standard. There is no guarantee of anonymity.
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pianistclare
Guest
yes. This^
Peace.
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JimG
Guest
Yes, that’s true. To repeat what you said, “Canon law is clear on the matter; all penitents have a right to confession behind a fixed grille and it remains the norm of the Latin church, while face to face confession is available at the discretion of the priest.”
For practical purposes, that means that the penitent is anonymous to the priest, although even that is not guaranteed. And of course, standing in the confession line is not anonymous. We can all see who is waiting. I nod to friends in the line. Still, I wouldn’t appreciate a third party photographing or videotaping my confession; I doubt that others would, and if we wouldn’t, why foist it on children?
Of course all this is disciplinary in nature. I suspect though, that if we returned to the use of public confession before the congregation, the sacrament might fall into even further disuse. And as I mentioned before, I’ve noticed that when people have a choice, most of them flock to the line for the confessionals rather than the priests in the open areas. It’s no big deal either way, but if people prefer confessionals, why not let them have them.
My own parish is certainly not a traditionalist parish. Our confessionals used to be somewhat more open, having curtains but no doors. When it was remodeled, they made them more private; people liked it.
S
Sunbreak
Guest
The children have the same rights as adults. If I was a child and had to do that I would really not like it. It was difficult enough with the old small confessionals with velvet curtains on them and the sliding door thing thing the priest would push open when it was your turn in a double confessional. If none of the adults wanted to do confession that way, I can’t imagine how the kids felt about it.
I’m surprised so many posters say their confessional boxes aren’t used anymore. Many of the churches in my area (which is not known for religious fervor) still use their old confessionals. The only time there is out-in-the-open confessing is during a penance service.
I’m surprised so many posters say their confessional boxes aren’t used anymore. Many of the churches in my area (which is not known for religious fervor) still use their old confessionals. The only time there is out-in-the-open confessing is during a penance service.
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27lw
Guest
This is interesting to me. When I went through RCIA, and we had out first Confession, we also all HAD to go face-to-face (I would have preferred anonymously). Our priest also taught us in RCIA that we should give some basic information about ourselves, such as how old we are, if we are married, if we have children, etc. so that the confessor can understand our confession in context. I am okay with that, but it seems wrong to force people to go face-to-face so that the priest can know how to counsel someone.
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pianistclare
Guest
Regardless of “laws” the important thing is for people to avail themselves of the Sacrament of Reconciliation often and to not be AFRAID.
People used to be afraid of the dark spooky confessional.
So we started offering face to face.
Now people are afraid to face their pastor or priest. Embarrassed.
All excuses for not wanting to confess.
The children in our Sacramental prep classes are taught that it is important to confess your sins. The method is immaterial. Most of the children express fear at having to go in “the box”. They love our priest and relish the chance to sit and talk with him.
None of them balk at face to face. They believe it is good to simply speak frankly, and express their remorse. It’s the adults that are all wound up. We have traditional confessionals for those people who just can’t get past the face to face. But in truth, they rarely avail themselves of the chance. The weekly confession times are not very populated. 4 people max. But the Penance services with 12 face to face priests? Packed.
Which says to me that we must have scared the you know what out of the older folks when they were kids in the box. Because they’ll go to a priest they don’t know face to face anytime there’s a bunch of them around. And yeah, we had a Catholic school mom who wanted to videotape her son’s confession. uh…NO.
People used to be afraid of the dark spooky confessional.
So we started offering face to face.
Now people are afraid to face their pastor or priest. Embarrassed.
All excuses for not wanting to confess.
The children in our Sacramental prep classes are taught that it is important to confess your sins. The method is immaterial. Most of the children express fear at having to go in “the box”. They love our priest and relish the chance to sit and talk with him.
None of them balk at face to face. They believe it is good to simply speak frankly, and express their remorse. It’s the adults that are all wound up. We have traditional confessionals for those people who just can’t get past the face to face. But in truth, they rarely avail themselves of the chance. The weekly confession times are not very populated. 4 people max. But the Penance services with 12 face to face priests? Packed.
Which says to me that we must have scared the you know what out of the older folks when they were kids in the box. Because they’ll go to a priest they don’t know face to face anytime there’s a bunch of them around. And yeah, we had a Catholic school mom who wanted to videotape her son’s confession. uh…NO.
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TypesAndShadows
Guest
The message by RugratArmy, that this was a reply to, explains that they themself avoided confession in “the box”, and explains a little bit why.
Did you not understand their explanation?
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Cricket2
Guest
I have heard of folks who had some pretty awful experiences when going to confession. Rude priests, being yelled at and things like that. However, I doubt this is the main reason people stay away from confession, though for some it would be.
I think most people who stay away from confession honestly think they have nothing to confess or are too embarrassed to confess their sins. It has little to do with the arrangements in my mind. One of the things I had always looked forward to as a convert to the Faith was the opportunity to go to confession. I can’t imagine those who don’t want to go or choose not to.
A little embarrassment here is better than an eternity separated from God.
C
Cricket2
Guest
As a convert I tried both face to face and the conventional private option. Due to a bit of “can’t stand to be in a closed up space” I simply can’t use a traditional confessional. I start to panic and then I start to cry. So I opt for face to face every time.
I think it is nice to have both options available. Also, as one with physical disabilities and limitations I find face to face much easier to manage. This is one area I think the Catholic Church needs to be a bit more user friendly in…making things more accessible for those of us who are physically limited.
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7armyrugrats
Guest
Lots of people fear the confessional and I told you at least one reason why. The priest that was at our church growing up would go completely crazy screaming at elementary kids for every little thing they confessed. I look back and wonder how some of my “sins” were even sinful. It was things like forgetting my homework and not doing chores. No, I wasn’t an overly sensitive child. This was a small school, less than 15 kids per grade. As adults, only two of us from my grade level identify ourselves as Catholics at all, and none of the other kids I knew from other grades do. None of my siblings that attended school there are Catholic. At least two of my classmates left the Church due specifically to confession, and so did my brother. I didn’t leave the Church but I stayed away from confession for years. I knew even then that Confession was good and necessary, but I could not bring myself to go through it again. There are lots of people who have had bad experiences in confession and that is what drives many away. It is easy to blame them for not going and dismiss their fears as unfounded or petty. But just as people say they have had priests that advise them that birth control or another sin is ok for them, there are also priests that over react and say hurtful comments.
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mommy_k
Guest
Regarding the photos at confession:
I would advise these parents to take a photo outside of church before confession-then take a photo of thier child outside after confession. Then compare the two photos.
This is amazing to see how happy children are in the after photo, when all of their sins are forgiven. They can use these photos as a reminder to thier child about how it feels to be sin free.
But never, never take photos during.
Regarding confessionals- as long they approach the Lord with a true sorrow for sinful behavior, and seek forgiveness, I don’t think it matters too much about the confessional area. This is what reconciliation is about.
I would advise these parents to take a photo outside of church before confession-then take a photo of thier child outside after confession. Then compare the two photos.
This is amazing to see how happy children are in the after photo, when all of their sins are forgiven. They can use these photos as a reminder to thier child about how it feels to be sin free.
But never, never take photos during.
Regarding confessionals- as long they approach the Lord with a true sorrow for sinful behavior, and seek forgiveness, I don’t think it matters too much about the confessional area. This is what reconciliation is about.
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maryjk
Guest
And if they don’t?
Build a private school?
Many places are simply having to adapt to their situation.
They don’t have a school. They may not have private confessionals. Regardless, even if they have them, few would have enough for the visiting priests during a penance service.
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JimG
Guest
Yes, I can understand fearing confession after having bad experiences with a crazy confessor. I can honestly say I’ve never encountered such a thing. It just seems to me that if a priest is yelling at a kid in a confessional, the experience would be even more traumatic if he was yelling at a kid (or anyone else) out in the open. An unstable priest will not become more amenable just by being taken out of the confessional. Why is it more fearsome to be behind a screen than facing the priest?
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JimG
Guest
If they don’t have a confessional, they don’t. I’ve seen parishes that have only reconciliation rooms, although they do have the option in the room of confession behind a screen. But every parish should at least have that option, since it is mandated by canon law.
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TypesAndShadows
Guest
An unstable or bullying priest is indeed much less likely to scream at a child in public, where adult witnesses will notice. And if they do, action can be taken so that they don’t do that to any more kids.
Even just knowing that other people would see how you had been treated can be very reassuring, if you’ve had bad experiences with hurtful and abusive comments in private.
There are all sorts of things that I have been fortunate enough not to experience: that isn’t a reason to act as if they haven’t happened to other people, and had serious consequences.
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JimG
Guest
Well, I believe you. One could certainly develop a fear of the confessional if one had a very bad experience there. Still, it seems odd that the fear would attach to the venue of confession rather than to the fact of confession. If that happened to me, I would avoid that priest entirely, whether in a confessional or a reconciliation room. (For that matter, if a priest was yelling at someone inside the confessional, I think that everyone in the confession line would hear it and complain.)
I can also see that an elementary school child might prefer confessing face to face, though not all would, and if that’s what they want, I hope that they would be able to choose it. If they still prefer it as teens, that’s okay too, but by then, they might have developed a preference for the grille or screen.
In any case, I don’t think that they ought to be required to do a face to face confession regardless of their preference. I don’t think they should be required to introduce themselves to the priest, and to confess in effect as a public act at a public event.
The confessionals in my parish are not dark, nor are they confining. There’s room enough to get a wheelchair in there if you wish. The priest can hear you but not see you. Often, when the confessional line is too long, another priest will come out, pull a chair up to the altar rail, and hear confessions there. There’s no grille, no screen, and anyone in the church can see you confessing, but it is still not much different than going in to the confessional. The priest looks down, not at the penitent, and I doubt that he could even say who went to confession. Either way is okay with me, as long as there are no photographers and the line keeps moving.
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MissRose73
Guest
When I had my first confession at age 9 or 10 many years ago, it was face to face in a private room (during the 1980s). Our parents and families waited a distance away from us as we went 1 at a time to the room then we lit a candle when done, then when all were done, our catechist and the priest presented each kid a certificate & holy card.
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Brandall
Guest
I’ve only had one confession and it was eight days ago. It wasn’t a bad experience at all. Our pastor is a very wise man and he had something helpful to say about all my sins.
Obviously, I wasn’t raised a Catholic and I’m nearing the end of RCIA. I’ve had periods of time where I’ve run from God and it is easier to cultivate a habit of ignoring God than it is to cultivate a habit of striving to be holy and righteous.
A very large part of the problem is that there is spiritual warfare going on. The evil one whispers in your ear, “you haven’t been that bad”, “the protestants don’t have to confess to a man”, “Why not wait until next week”, etc. I’m sure the evil one is keeping many from confession and from God. I’ve seen him at work several times in the past 7 months in RCIA attempting to derail my obedience to come into communion with the Church. Pray for me please that I can see this current journey through to the end. Pray for me please that my journey toward holiness and righteousness continues despite the lure of the evil one. Pray for all those souls that have satan leading them from what they should be doing.
Pray for whomever developed this spell check as it allows god without a capital G but flags satan without a capital S.
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