First Reconciliation - Priest Denies Absolution to Many 2nd Graders (not just mine)

[Auntie_A]

This bothers me for different reasons. One is that it seems that the children were judged differently by the 5 priests, so this child, who simply froze up, was judged as not ready, when possibly a child who was less ready would be admitted simply because of the luck of the draw in that he got one of the other 4 priests!

And the other is that it seems like the expectations were changed…

The time to evaluate if the children are ready is NOT at their First Confession, when they are already nervous, but a couple of classes before, in the classroom!

Plenty of priests have helped lots of returning adults through their confessions, and knowing even the act of contrition is not necessary, one can say say something simple like Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner. A lot of confessionals where I live and other places have the Act of Contrition posted!

This is just very strange to me…

I am in agreement here. The time to test the kids is BEFORE they go into the confessional. They should get lots of rehearsal and chances, the same with memorization of prayers. The problem may be, in some cases, that we are not saying our prayers at home (and school) so how is a kid going to memorize what he rarely hears? I hope this does not offend the OP but the responsibility rests on us all: the clergy, the parish, the diocese, the parents, relatives, family, friends, community. But we should not put an already conscientious and anxious kid through the wringer.

Spiritual formation feels like a rush job these days. And the kids feel the pressure from within as well as feel the pressures from their schools and catechism classes to be perfect. What a cruel way to learn!

I know that when I feel the pressure to be perfect, I FREEZE UP. Perfection is impossible and striving for perfection creates constriction. We need to look at ways to make learning meaningful and fun and support our kids lovingly through their spiritual journey…

I am sorry your child has gone through a tough preparation but I think this incident reflects the struggle in Catholic Education. There is a body of information to be taught at each age level AND there are little humans learning at each age level with different experiences and abilities. How do we cover the essential study material, make sure the student is learning AND understanding, and support each individual child through the steps toward the sacraments and a sacramental life? How do we evaluate the individual and their readiness AND make it FAIR? Testing, written or verbal, gives many people the heebie-jeebies.

Last, we don’t have all of the information about this priest but if this happened to my child, I would tell him that he will probably learn deeper life lessons and understand confession better than all of the kids who got an easier “pass”. I would tell them about Christ and all of the very imperfect "judges’ and “critics” that He had to stand before. I would make sure my child got the positive spin on this because life seems so full of these unfair moments…and I have met too many fallen away Catholics with stories of alienation where no one stepped in to help and guide them.

 

[pnewton]

The priest was within his right to deny confession…if the children in his view were not ready to make a GOOD confession because they obviously did not do anything thinking about their sins and prepared properly…

That was kind of my thought. The priest is responsible to the bishop to be sure that Sacraments are validly administered. I do not know if simply forgetting a prayer (I still do not know how a Catholic kid could do this) would not be sufficient. Perhaps there was a recognition that some kids simply did not take the Sacrament seriously, or were clueless about what it was. When First Communion is administered there is to be a reasonable expectation that the child will continue as a Catholic. It isn’t a birthday party.

Now, back to forgetting prayers. I would never blame the CCE teacher on this, at least alone. Do the parents never pray with the child? Does the family never say the rosary at home? How can a Catholic kid reach this age and not know Hail Mary? I simply can not fathom it.

 

[pnewton]

That’s why we keep our kids out of CCE(D?) and teach our kids their Catechism at home.

Many diocese would not allow this. We have mandatory attendence for two years in ours (one year if they attend Catholic school). My own son had no intellectual need for it, but he did need the sense of parish community.

On a side note, his class now has four of the kids that sing in the choir, two boys and two girls. I think I am going to really enjoy watching these kids grow up.

 

[KCT]

There is probably more to the story than anyone knows. Go talk to the priest in question.

 

[Used2beSherryG]

There is probably more to the story than anyone knows. Go talk to the priest in question.

this may be a complete misunderstanding. Your best approach is a calm one for the sake of your child. Please make an appt to meet face to face with this priest and ask him. As a mother myself, I know the first response is one of protecting my child from any harm. In fairness, it is safe to say that as a mother, I sometimes "over evaluated " my child’s attribute’s! Please do not over react which will only do more harm than good to the little guy you are trying to help.

 

[underacloud]

Since when is it too much to ask that a 2nd grader be able to say the Our Father and the Hail Mary as a condition for receiving a sacrament??? Seven year olds are sponges and can sing back songs, recite whole plot lines of cartoons and movies.

It is too much to ask because the Church does not ask for it. The Church requires three things of the penitent: contrition, confession, and satisfaction.

Most confessionals even have acts of contrition written on cards; we aren’t even required to know an act of contrition by heart, let alone other prayers that are not requried for the sacrament. (And as others have said, even a child who ordinarily remembers their prayers well may freeze up in the confessional.)

Now, this may be a fair reason for determining that someone is not ready to approach the sacrament yet and to advise that they do not attempt it at this stage. But it is not a reason to deny absolution if the priest chooses to hear the confession.

 

[dixieagle]

This bothers me for different reasons. One is that it seems that the children were judged differently by the 5 priests, so this child, who simply froze up, was judged as not ready, when possibly a child who was less ready would be admitted simply because of the luck of the draw in that he got one of the other 4 priests!

And the other is that it seems like the expectations were changed…

The time to evaluate if the children are ready is NOT at their First Confession, when they are already nervous, but a couple of classes before, in the classroom!

Plenty of priests have helped lots of returning adults through their confessions, and knowing even the act of contrition is not necessary, one can say say something simple likeJesus, have mercy on me, a sinner. A lot of confessionals where I live and other places have the Act of Contrition posted!

This is just very strange to me…

I particularly agree that any evaluation should have taken place well BEFORE the actual first confession.

Were they ALL supposed to know certain prayers by heart, and did they know that they would be “quizzed” (apparently during confession)? Or did this new priest have his own arbitrary set of rules?

While I am in full agreement that good catechesis is often a rare commodity in some parishes, it seems unfair and ultimately unproductive for one priest to have his own agenda, if that is the case, and spring it on unsuspecting and likely nervous little children at a most vulnerable time.

 

[dixieagle]

It is too much to ask because the Church does not ask for it. The Church requires three things of the penitent: contrition, confession, and satisfaction.

Most confessionals even have acts of contrition written on cards; we aren’t even required to know an act of contrition by heart, let alone other prayers that are not requried for the sacrament. (And as others have said, even a child who ordinarily remembers their prayers well may freeze up in the confessional.)

Now, this may be a fair reason for determining that someone is not ready to approach the sacrament yet and to advise that they do not attempt it at this stage. But it is not a reason to deny absolution if the priest chooses to hear the confession.

Yes!!!

 

[Orogeny]

It is too much to ask because the Church does not ask for it. The Church requires three things of the penitent: contrition, confession, and satisfaction.

Most confessionals even have acts of contrition written on cards; we aren’t even required to know an act of contrition by heart, let alone other prayers that are not requried for the sacrament. (And as others have said, even a child who ordinarily remembers their prayers well may freeze up in the confessional.)

Now, this may be a fair reason for determining that someone is not ready to approach the sacrament yet and to advise that they do not attempt it at this stage. But it is not a reason to deny absolution if the priest chooses to hear the confession.

There was more to it than that, based only on the OP. She wrote:

I was told it is because my son was not able to recite the Hail Mary and Our Father (which he recites very well at home) and because he didn’t appear to have thought hard enough about his sins.

(bolding mine)

Let me ask anyone who, based on this one post by the OP, is furious with the priest, if that second part is true, should the priest have administered the sacrament?

As poster KCT noted, there is likely much more to the story than we have been provided. I’m always amazed at how fast people on this forum are willing to jump on the actions of a priest or to recommend a call to the bishop based on a story that at least has a high likelihood of being biased to one side. My goodness, some people on this thread have suggested that the priest has a mental illness and several have suggested that he has committed an act that only the Pope himself can forgive and is excommunicated until the Holy Father does just that. All on the basis of one second (or worse) hand report on a forum!!!

Peace

Tim

 

[pnewton]

It is too much to ask because the Church does not ask for it. The Church requires three things of the penitent: contrition, confession, and satisfaction.

The Church requires:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_12021997_vademecum_en.html

(45) “If the confessor has no doubt about the disposition of a penitent who asks for absolution, absolution is not to be refused or delayed” (Code of Canon Law, can. 980).

If the priest doubts the disposition of the penitent, then he is not required to absolve. A priest might choose to use the knowledge of a prayer for this, though I hope he would do so pastorally, prompting the child to help him. If it turns out the child made zero preparation and knew nothing, I think doubt could be established that the child was not disposed.

I would tell the OP that there really is no cause for concern. Kids are kids. Let this be a chance for him to learn and consider what was his personal reason to give the priest doubt and go again. It may well be a blessing that this child learns better than all the others the gravity of this sacrament.

 

[underacloud]

There was more to it than that, based only on the OP.

Just to be clear, in that post I was only refering to the issue of knowing certain prayers as a reason to deny absolution. I do accept that there is more to it, and in my first post in this thread I said as much:

…It is hard for any of us to comment because the priest, in Chirst’s place, deserves our respect and recognition of his authority in the confessional. Perhaps he had good reasons for denying absolution.

 

[ahollars]

As a CCD teacher myself, I made it a point to tell the 6th graders that they were not their to review the basics. If they could not keep up with the class, then they would not make it through the next two years of confirmation prep.

There is something to be said about nervous children. I have 6 kids, and I have been prepared to delay the sacraments to them if they did not prepare properly. I had to remind them that I was serious when time started to get short and they seemed to have a lazy attitude about their studies, but my kids were ready when the big day arrived.

While I agree that the confessional is not the place to quiz children, the Our Father and Hail Mary are not quizzes. They aren’t event the bare minimum. A child who can’t make it past those two is not ready, and my remaining kids will be sure to understand. If they don’t, then they will wait until the following year.

Sacraments belong to the Church. They do not belong to the family. Pastors have the right to set a basic standard for who is spiritually ready to receive sacraments at every level.

Personally, I think we should go back in time a little. Give confirmation to the 7-year-olds. First Communion can wait until age 10.

 

[dans0622]

If a penitent has confessed at least one sin, is contrite, and wants to avoid sin, then the penitent’s disposition is appropriate and absolution should be granted (cf. cc. 959, 987).

Knowlege of, or ability to recite at a particular moment, some prayers is not a condition which has to be met before absolution is granted. Besides, since when is the confessional the place where we start reciting Our Fathers or Hail Marys? As far as “thinking hard enough about sins”–how would a priest know whether or not a child has committed other sins he should have “thought harder” about?

As far as what the “OP” should do–talk to the priest in question. If he confirms the story, then take it up higher and see what the authorities in the diocese say about it.

Dan

 

[underacloud]

The Church requires:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_12021997_vademecum_en.html
If the priest doubts the disposition of the penitent, then he is not required to absolve. A priest might choose to use the knowledge of a prayer for this, though I hope he would do so pastorally, prompting the child to help him. If it turns out the child made zero preparation and knew nothing, I think doubt could be established that the child was not disposed.

To be disposed to a good confession, one needs contrition (sorry for their sins and prepared to resolve their life), to be ready to name the sins (and relevant details), and prepared to make satisfaction (penance). Knowing rote prayers is not relevant. The ability to say certain rote prayers is not part of being appropriately disposed for confession.

Confessing our serious sins at least once a year is a precept of the Church. Knowing the Our Father and Hail Mary by heart are not.

 

[Pax2u]

I’m appalled at this. I hope he wasn’t obnoxious to the child in the confessional, on top of being insulting to the parents and catechist.

I taught sacramental preparation for many years. Never did I have a child I felt was not ready for the sacraments…they all tried their best, had a grasp of the concepts, did all the required prep. Knowing they may freeze up at confession (heck, many adults do after years of going!) they went in with the “script” printed on a piece of paper to refer to if they needed it. Once a little girl had a meltdown and was too scared to go in the Reconciliation Room. Father came out and sat next to her in a pew, within eye-shot of her Mom, and got her through it. I was so grateful that she did it and learned it was nothing to be afraid of.

THAT is teaching the peace, love, and healing of the sacrament!

 

[pnewton]

To be disposed to a good confession, one needs contrition (sorry for their sins and prepared to resolve their life), to be ready to name the sins (and relevant details), and prepared to make satisfaction (penance). Knowing rote prayers is not relevant.

I would say, that per canon law, that is for the priest in the confessional to determine what is relevant, not us.

Confessing our serious sins at least once a year is a precept of the Church. Knowing the Our Father and Hail Mary by heart are not

It is also not required for confession one attend CCE, yet the Church does allow for the priest to use attendance as an indicator (some diocese as a rule) of proper disposition.

 

[pnewton]

I’m appalled at this. I hope he wasn’t obnoxious to the child in the confessional, on top of being insulting to the parents and catechist.

In the first post, there was no mention of him being obnoxious to the child, or even speaking to, much less insulting, the parents and the catechist.

 

[pnewton]

If a penitent has confessed at least one sin, is contrite, and wants to avoid sin, then the penitent’s disposition is appropriate and absolution should be granted (cf. cc. 959, 987).

Just to clarify, those canons do not say that absolution should be granted. Here they are in their entirety.

Can. 959 In the sacrament of penance the faithful who confess their sins to a legitimate minister, are sorry for them, and intend to reform themselves obtain from God through the absolution imparted by the same minister forgiveness for the sins they have committed after baptism and, at the same, time are reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by sinning.

Can. 987 To receive the salvific remedy of the sacrament of penance, a member of the Christian faithful must be disposed in such a way that, rejecting sins committed and having a purpose of amendment, the person is turned back to God.

While I do not defend this priest, I have to say canon law is on his side, so I will defend his authority. Whether he was wise or foolish, no one here is in any special position of knowledge to judge.

 

[underacloud]

I would say, that per canon law, that is for the priest in the confessional to determine what is relevant, not us.

Not at all. Priests are not free to take it upon themselves to determine what arbitrary requirements they will impose. The know, or should know, what the Church requires of the penitent (as listed before - contrition, confession, and satisfaction) and these are the ways in which a penitent can be assessed as disposed on not. If someone is not sorry for their sins, not prepared to amend their life, or not prepared to make a good verbal confession, they are not disposed. Knowing rote prayers is irrelevant.

A priest may determine that someone who has not bothered to learn such key prayers is not mature enough to be considered at the age of discretion, but that sort of decision should be made well before a child is in the confessional. If the priest chooses to hear the confession, it is the listed criteria of contrition, confession, and satisfaction that are the only relevant factors. Again, I fail to see what relevance rote prayers could have at this point.

 

[Jessie5000]

Iam shocked and think this is horrible. I suggest the following:

 1- approach the said priest with your concerns.  If you are not able to resolve this problem
    visit the parish Pastor.

 2- explain the situation to the pastor, including your discussion with the said priest and    why you feel the problem remains unresolved.  Allow him to look into this which may take a few days.

 3 - If the problem remains unresolved, google your Pastoral offices of the Bishop.  There should be a process on the website for contacting the Bishop.  Explain the problem and the steps you have taken to resolve the problem with the said Priest and Pastor.  All Bishops are concerned about the pastoral skills of their priests and desire these individuals are skilled in dealing with parish members.  Allow him to address this.  Make sure you inform the Bishop of the other children and their parents names and phone numbers as it will allow him to deal with all the concerned parties as he strives to ameliorate the problems.

These steps are generally considered ethical when dealing with problems, included in most codes of ethics, and inline with scripture when dealing with issues.

When doing so your goal must be to right the problems, restore a positive relationship with the said priest and to ensure we all learn from this situation so it is not repeated. Your goal should not be to get the priest in trouble as this is vindictive.

Good luck with this. I am sure you will find this process successful.