FIRST TIME EVER: Anglican Evensong sung in St. Peter’s Basilica

  • Thread starter Thread starter ComplineSanFran
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Picky_Picky said:
Oh, in some things, yes — if the tradition still works. Otherwise I’m a dangerous radical. But bacon and eggs are still a perfect combination, and Jane Austen is still a genius. I think mysteries should be mysterious, and acts of drama should be dramatic. And, anyway, a semi-darkened church gives a chilly sense of what it must have been like for my peasant forebears to go to church when Cranmer was putting the BCP together, and it was a long walk through darkening muddy fields and lanes, and artificial light was vastly expensive, and there were very evident perils and dangers in the night ahead.
Click to expand...
Good description! 🙂
 
twf said:
Winning a lot of souls to Catholicism with this sort of rhetoric and crude analogies?

I’ll take Rome’s approach, thanks.
Click to expand...
Perhaps it came across cruder than I’d intended, I apologise. To put it another way: I’m sure we can all agree that a lot of evil things occurred at that time. As I said, both sides have a lot of actions to be ashamed of, and dialogue is certainly an improvement over civil wars!
 
Stat_Crux said:
Times may change, but Doctrine does not; this is a Catholic forum.

We also commemorate the two world wars, but that does not mean we support them or believe them to be justified. Instead, remembering the horrors committed and the sacrifices, both sides strive not to repeat the same mistakes.
Click to expand...
How was World War II not justified?

I don’t think an Evensong service would include anything against Catholic doctrine.

It seems to fit with the commemoration of the Reformation so I commend Pope Francis extending a hand of friendship.
 
7_Sorrows said:
How was World War II not justified?

I don’t think an Evensong service would include anything against Catholic doctrine.

It seems to fit with the commemoration of the Reformation so I commend Pope Francis extending a hand of friendship.
Click to expand...
We can talk about the specific circumstances of the Allies’ justified defence in the face of a hostile invasion. But I am referring to the sin inherant in all of us human beings which was exemplified in our failing to have found a solution which avoided the deaths of millions of men, women and children. “Justified defence” does not mean “morally good”, but the least bad option in the face of an otherwise impossible situation.

And agreed, Evensong of itself is not opposed to Catholic Doctrine.
 
Stat_Crux said:
We can talk about the specific circumstances of the Allies’ justified defence in the face of a hostile invasion. But I am referring to the sin inherant in all of us human beings which was exemplified in our failing to have found a solution which avoided the deaths of millions of men, women and children. “Justified defence” does not mean “morally good”, but the least bad option in the face of an otherwise impossible situation.

And agreed, Evensong of itself is not opposed to Catholic Doctrine.
Click to expand...
I am sorry the deaths of millions in the concentration camps were not avoided.

Both world wars were tragic in loss of life.

Now back to the thread topic.
 
7_Sorrows said:
Now back to the thread topic.
Click to expand...
One of the things that struck me most was that Evensong happened at the most iconic places of worship. The venue said a lot. Just as the 36 RC and Anglican Bishops gathered last fall in Canterbury Cathedral to pray together, the images and location spoke volumes.

It’s a new era.
 
Maybe the Anglican Communion will one day apologize for all the Catholic martyrs they murdered, or all the wealth and land they stole from the Catholic Church.
 
Estevao said:
Maybe the Anglican Communion will one day apologize for all the Catholic martyrs they murdered, or all the wealth and land they stole from the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
Perhaps. But I doubt it - the Church in England has its own martyrs. It was a dreadful time.
 
Estevao said:
Maybe the Anglican Communion will one day apologize for all the Catholic martyrs they murdered, or all the wealth and land they stole from the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
I thought they had just done this recently.

And the Catholic Church has had to apologize for a great deal too.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Perhaps. But I doubt it - the Church in England has its own martyrs. It was a dreadful time.
Click to expand...
We can mutually apologize. I know Catholic authorities have apologized for past sins of the Church. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Church of England has already done so as well.
 
twf said:
We can mutually apologize. I know Catholic authorities have apologized for past sins of the Church. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Church of England has already done so as well.
Click to expand...
I believe the Archbishop of Canterbury made an apology just this year in January.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I believe the Archbishop of Canterbury made an apology just this year in January.
Click to expand...
You are right - Canterbury and York made a joint statement in January:

"This year, churches around the world will be marking the great significance of the 500th anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation in Europe, dated from Martin Luther’s 95 Theses protesting against the practice of indulgences, on 31 October 1517 at Wittenberg. The Church of England will be participating in various ways, including sharing in events with Protestant church partners from Continental Europe.

The Reformation was a process of both renewal and division amongst Christians in Europe. In this Reformation Anniversary year, many Christians will want to give thanks for the great blessings they have received to which the Reformation directly contributed. Amongst much else these would include clear proclamation of the gospel of grace, the availability of the Bible to all in their own language and the recognition of the calling of lay people to serve God in the world and in the church.

Many will also remember the lasting damage done five centuries ago to the unity of the Church, in defiance of the clear command of Jesus Christ to unity in love. Those turbulent years saw Christian people pitted against each other, such that many suffered persecution and even death at the hands of others claiming to know the same Lord. A legacy of mistrust and competition would then accompany the astonishing global spread of Christianity in the centuries that followed. All this leaves us much to ponder.

Remembering the Reformation should bring us back to what the Reformers wanted to put at the centre of every person’s life, which is a simple trust in Jesus Christ. This year is a time to renew our faith in Christ and in Him alone. With this confidence we shall then be ready to ask hard questions about those things in our lives and the life of our churches that get in the way of sharing and celebrating faith in Him.

Remembering the Reformation should also lead us to repent of our part in perpetuating divisions. Such repentance needs to be linked to action aimed at reaching out to other churches and strengthening relationships with them. This anniversary year will provide many opportunities to do just that, beginning with this Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.

We therefore call on all Christians to seek to be renewed and united in the truth of the gospel of Christ through our participation in the Reformation Anniversary, to repent of divisions, and, held together in Him, to be a blessing to the world in obedience to Jesus Christ."
 
ComplineSanFran said:
"Today, for the first time ever, Anglican Choral Evensong was celebrated at the altar of the Chair of St. Peter in St. Peter’s Basilica at the Vatican.

Anglican Archbishop David Moxon, director of the Anglican center in Rome, presided at the 3 pm service, with music sung by the Choir of Merton College, Oxford. Archbishop Arthur Roche, Vatican Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, preached a homily. Pope Francis did not attend."

aleteia.org/2017/03/13/first-time-ever-anglican-evensong-sung-in-st-peters-basilica/

Nice! I have heard the choir from Merton College, Oxford, and they are one of the best. St Peter’s Basilica had themselves a glorious gift today. I don’t know if you have ever attended Evensong at an Anglican church or Cathedral, but it is one of the most beautiful liturgies we have.

I’m glad that a bit of our liturgy can illuminate and inspire those in Rome.
Click to expand...
An amazing thing to see an Anglican Evensong in St Peter’s. Hopefully this kind of mutual exchange of worship/visit continues. The things that divide us are nothing compared to the thing that unifies us after all.
 
Padres1969 said:
An amazing thing to see an Anglican Evensong in St Peter’s. Hopefully this kind of mutual exchange of worship/visit continues. The things that divide us are nothing compared to the thing that unifies us after all.
Click to expand...
Amen.
 
I have the happiest memories of the Church of England of my youth. Evensong especially which is a combining of Vespers and Compline.

When I was at University and exams crowded in, I would walk to Church on Sunday evening, the night before an exam, and come away calmed and at peace.

Later I worked at the Retreat House in Chester, alongside the Cathedral (Church of England) and would go early communion and then choral evensong. Happy days that fed and helped me

Never met their like since although the BBC for years had choral evensong every Wednesday… maybe still do.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
What would be heretical about Evensong? Scripture? The music, which is usually based on Scripture? The prayers? (Perhaps the one for the Queen might be questionable, but most of them are pretty orthodox.) The Creed? The Lord’s Prayer?

I think this is something we should celebrate.
Click to expand...
Celebration is appropriate. I doubt if there is anything in “Anglican” Evensong that had not already been sung in St. Peter’s, under different names, if it includes various prayers such as found in Vespers. I have not heard (or rather, prayed) Evensong yet, but sometime I will.

In my diocese we now have “Lessons and Carols” at many RC parishes around Christmas. This is an excellent borrowing. In the future, I expect some Catholics to assume we invented it, and grumble if those Episcopalians across town start stealing our Lessons and Carols.
 
commenter said:
Celebration is appropriate. I doubt if there is anything in “Anglican” Evensong that had not already been sung in St. Peter’s, under different names, if it includes various prayers such as found in Vespers. I have not heard (or rather, prayed) Evensong yet, but sometime I will.

In my diocese we now have “Lessons and Carols” at many RC parishes around Christmas. This is an excellent borrowing. In the future, I expect some Catholics to assume we invented it, and grumble if those Episcopalians across town start stealing our Lessons and Carols.
Click to expand...
LOL. Yes, things like that are bound to happen. Anglican Evensong is unique, however. I’m certain that St Peter’s has heard evening prayer sung in its long history, but I must say that you’ll understand the difference if you go to one of England’s cathedrals, or a college chapel, and sit in the quire with the men and boys as they sing Evensong. There is nothing closer to heaven.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top