First time to Mass

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I would like to say that I am surprised by your observations, but sadly I have seen similar scenes too often in so many Catholic churches. This morning, for example, a guy arrived during the homily, and sat next to me looking bored and distracted, and did not even bother to recite the creed, or engage with any of the congregational responses.* He then sauntered up to receive communion and walked straight out. *Sadly people like this do have an impact on the assembled collective, and create a sense of disprespect. This isn’t helped when priests rush through the liturgy in a mechanisitic way giving the impression that he wants to finish up as quickly as possible, which is something else I have also experienced.

I try, if I can, to attend flagship churches in central London where the atmosphere is often (but not always) better: but I think it’s sad that many people attending their local church should have to put up with this. It does the Catholic Church no favours when observers from other traditions see what you have described.
On this note, I’ve seen it quite a lot. I’ve always wondered why people do this. It’s not like you have to receive Communion every Sunday. What’s the point in going to receive Communion when you don’t stay for the entire mass, especially since you don’t have to in the first place? It’s rather silly, if you ask me.
 
On this note, I’ve seen it quite a lot. I’ve always wondered why people do this. It’s not like you have to receive Communion every Sunday. What’s the point in going to receive Communion when you don’t stay for the entire mass, especially since you don’t have to in the first place? It’s rather silly, if you ask me.
I agree with you completely. It strikes me that these people think as long as they are there for the Eucharistic Prayer, observe the consecration and receive the sacrament, then they have fulfilled their obligation: box ticked. It’s so wrong.😦
 
No it’s not you. And no, I’m not angry. You are a newcomer and at this point are happy with the reception you got at the FSSP because they sped up the process for you being received into the Church.
Joanofarc, based on what I remember of your past posting history, I’m going you give you the benefit if the doubt and assume you did not mean an underhanded insult.

I like the FSSP because they sped up my reception into the church? Not because they are Holy, traditional priests? If youl want to see the booklist that we used for my instruction, PM me. I am thankful that God knows my heart and found what was right for me.

Whether I am attending their parish or my own more local TLM, it is the EF I attend. If someone wants a recommendation, that is what I will recommend. I have personally attended Father Rutler’s mass so I would always recommend that for someone who attends the OF.

We have the right to post links to TLMs just as you have the right to post links to OF masses. We may be in the minority, but we are not second class Catholics.
 
On this note, I’ve seen it quite a lot. I’ve always wondered why people do this. It’s not like you have to receive Communion every Sunday. What’s the point in going to receive Communion when you don’t stay for the entire mass, especially since you don’t have to in the first place? It’s rather silly, if you ask me.
I agree. The other evening I got to mass late because of work. I got there right around the consecration. Being that I arrived so late, I didn’t feel predisposed to receive our Lord so I just stayed in my pew and prayed.
 
Can someone help me understand?
I don’t think I can, but if you come to understand, pm me with the answer(s).

One observation though:

I have noticed that large Catholic families do not behave/dress this way. The kids, even the little ones, are well behaved, quiet, and respectful.
 
Whether I am attending their parish or my own more local TLM, it is the EF I attend. If someone wants a recommendation, that is what I will recommend. I have personally attended Father Rutler’s mass so I would always recommend that for someone who attends the OF.

Sorry, what is “EF”, and “OF”? By context, I think I understand what you are refering to, but what do the letters stand for?
 
EF - ExtraOrdinary Form (also some may call it the Tridentine Rite, Traditional Latin Mass, Latin Mass etc)

OF - Ordinary Form (post Vatican II, Mass of Paul VI, etc)
 
I don’t think I can, but if you come to understand, pm me with the answer(s).

One observation though:

I have noticed that large Catholic families do not behave/dress this way. The kids, even the little ones, are well behaved, quiet, and respectful.
Interesting, we have 9 children…
 
As a member of the One Body in Christ I, as a Catholic, want to welcome you to Mass, even if no one else did at that Church.

Why were you there? Are you considering becoming Catholic? If so, I urge you to make your decision based on Orthodoxy, not Orthopraxy.

That is, convert to Catholicism based on what the Church proclaims (Orthodoxy, which means “right teaching”), vs how you see Catholics acting (Orthopraxy, which means “right practice”). Sadly, there is often a disconnect between what the Church teaches, and how Catholics practice this teaching.
If orthodoxy does not lead to orthopraxy, where does that leave us?
 
If orthodoxy does not lead to orthopraxy, where does that leave us?
I didn’t say orthodoxy doesn’t lead to orthopraxy.

There are many Catholics who do indeed practice the faith.

I am simply saying not to judge Catholicism by Catholics.

Just like I would never judge Christianity by Christians. Take a look at the Apostles. Sinners, all, no?
 
I took my family to Mass for the first time this afternoon, and I was appalled at the casualness and general lack of reverance that we witnessed! Jeans and t-shirts!? Shorts and sandels!? Seriously!? And the guy trimming his nails in the pew!? I know it was a Saturday evening, and I did expect some level of casualness, but really? Don’t you all believe that the King of Kings and Lord of Lords is present at your worship? What about the Euchrist? What about respect for the Savior of mankind? I tried to focus on the priest and see Jesus Christ in the rituals, but the teenagers flirting in the pew ahead of us were extremely distracting. Even the Catholics we were able to speak with did not seem to know or understand, or in some cases even care, what the CC says it teaches.

Am I missing something? Why the disconnect between what I am reading the CC says it believes and the way atleast some (and it would appear the majority) of catholics we have encountered behave? Can someone help me understand?
Gee, I’m sorry and kind of embarrassed to hear about all that. Please know that although some Catholic churches aren’t as reverent, there are many Catholic churches that do things reverently and respectfully.

Luckily I have a very reverent Novus Ordo (also called Ordinary Form) Mass 10 minutes away by (to which I’m actually going to leave for in about a half hour), and a Traditional Latin Mass about 30 minutes away that I go to once a month.

My suggestion is to do some research on your diocese website (surely they must have a list of parishes with links to their websites) to find a reverent Mass near you. It’s a positive sign if a parish’s website says that they have a perpetual adoration chapel and/or a Mass in Latin.

Again, I’m sorry. Good luck! 👍
 
This morning, for example, a guy arrived during the homily, and sat next to me looking bored and distracted, and did not even bother to recite the creed, or engage with any of the congregational responses. He then sauntered up to receive communion and walked straight out. Sadly people like this do have an impact on the assembled collective, and create a sense of disprespect.
It sure makes you wonder how many would show up if they removed both the obligation and communion.
This isn’t helped when priests rush through the liturgy in a mechanisitic way giving the impression that he wants to finish up as quickly as possible, which is something else I have also experienced.
There are those who feel uncomfortable during “quiet” and “slow-moving” parts of the Mass, especially when they feel they have important things to do afterwards.
 
I took my family to Mass for the first time this afternoon, and I was appalled at the casualness and general lack of reverance that we witnessed! Jeans and t-shirts!? Shorts and sandels!? Seriously!? And the guy trimming his nails in the pew!? I know it was a Saturday evening, and I did expect some level of casualness, but really? Don’t you all believe that the King of Kings and Lord of Lords is present at your worship? What about the Euchrist? What about respect for the Savior of mankind? I tried to focus on the priest and see Jesus Christ in the rituals, but the teenagers flirting in the pew ahead of us were extremely distracting. Even the Catholics we were able to speak with did not seem to know or understand, or in some cases even care, what the CC says it teaches.

Am I missing something? Why the disconnect between what I am reading the CC says it believes and the way atleast some (and it would appear the majority) of catholics we have encountered behave? Can someone help me understand?
Of all the Catholics in the world, only 30% go to Mass regularly. Less than 15% are rooted in their faith. Does this help at all?
 
Of all the Catholics in the world, only 30% go to Mass regularly. Less than 15% are rooted in their faith. Does this help at all?
The first stat is a matter of fact and easily checked, but from where do you get the second figure?
 
Are you considering joining the Church? Is that why you and your family were at Mass?
The short answer is yes - based on what I’ve studied about the Early Church Fathers and Catholic Orthodoxy. I am concerned however, about leading my children into a faith that seems not to care about how that Orthodoxy translates into practice. “Meet your obligations and live like you want” is not a creed I want in my house.

I understand your point about not judging Catholicism by Catholics, but I disagree. Certainly one should not judge Catholicism/Chrstianity or any other group by one individual, but collectively one should be able to get a grasp of what the group believes by thier actions. And I do understand Catholicism is a very large group.

I do want to appologize for the tone of my original post. I do know (via this forum) that there are very sincere Catholics out there, I was just upset and disappointed by our first foray into the local Catholic world.
 
Not all Masses are like that. Saturday evening does tend to be the most casual of Masses, but I have never seen anyone trimming their nails at Mass! :eek: Jeans, shorts, sandals, yes. Casual dress may be because rather than miss their Sunday obligation altogether, people come straight from whatever they were doing.

Also, if you asked someone at that Mass directly if they believed in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, they would probably say yes. The problem is that no one has connected for them the reverence that belief should foster, and then the actions that show that reverence. “Cradle Catholics” mostly have had any formal training since they were in about 8th grade. Probably at that time, their parents were saying it’s better for them to come to Mass in jeans, than to not come at all.

Since you are not yet Catholic, take the time to visit several parishes in your area. depending on the priests there and the history of the parish, you will find some are more traditional/reverent than others. You will also find that the mid-morning Sunday Mass is usually the most so. If you are visiting Masses around the schedule of your current church, you may have to skip your usual service.

You may indeed find that an Extraordinary Form Mass (according to the rubrics from 1962), is what you prefer. Be warned though, that they are few and far between usually and often don’t have the associated Catholic school, CCD program, youth programs, or even Knights of Columbus that many families are looking for.
I took my family to Mass for the first time this afternoon, and I was appalled at the casualness and general lack of reverance that we witnessed! Jeans and t-shirts!? Shorts and sandels!? Seriously!? And the guy trimming his nails in the pew!? I know it was a Saturday evening, and I did expect some level of casualness, but really? Don’t you all believe that the King of Kings and Lord of Lords is present at your worship? What about the Euchrist? What about respect for the Savior of mankind? I tried to focus on the priest and see Jesus Christ in the rituals, but the teenagers flirting in the pew ahead of us were extremely distracting. Even the Catholics we were able to speak with did not seem to know or understand, or in some cases even care, what the CC says it teaches.

Am I missing something? Why the disconnect between what I am reading the CC says it believes and the way atleast some (and it would appear the majority) of catholics we have encountered behave? Can someone help me understand?
 
The short answer is yes - based on what I’ve studied about the Early Church Fathers and Catholic Orthodoxy. I am concerned however, about leading my children into a faith that seems not to care about how that Orthodoxy translates into practice. “Meet your obligations and live like you want” is not a creed I want in my house.

I understand your point about not judging Catholicism by Catholics, but I disagree. Certainly one should not judge Catholicism/Chrstianity or any other group by one individual, but collectively one should be able to get a grasp of what the group believes by thier actions. And I do understand Catholicism is a very large group.

I do want to appologize for the tone of my original post. I do know (via this forum) that there are very sincere Catholics out there, I was just upset and disappointed by our first foray into the local Catholic world.
Catholicism is an extremely varied religion. You’d think, if the stereotypes were correct, it’d be tried-and-true, very traditional. In many parishes it is. But in many parishes, it is not. There is a lot of leeway in how masses nowadays are celebrated, certainly more than there was, say, fifty or so years ago. Some people like this variation, some people don’t. I belong in the latter group, personally.

If you want tradition, something that’s more akin to what you think of when you think of the word “Catholic,” something closer to the stereotypical, then you should definitely look for an Extraordinary Form parish nearby. There’s certainly nothing that says that Ordinary Form parishes can’t be traditional, but in most cases, they are not. One thing I’m absolutely certain you’ll find at an EF parish is great catechesis (Catholicspeak for some sort of formal religious education). This is because these parishes have had to build up a self-sustaining system, as there are many people in both camps, both EF-goers and OF-goers, that very much dislike the idea of one another. As these exclusively-EF parishes are in the minority, they have to “fend for themselves,” in many cases, so to speak.

Now, there are certainly lots of parishes that offer both the Extraordinary and Ordinary Forms. I’ll go out on a whim and say that these parishes also probably offer great catechesis. That’s because it’s still a relatively “trendy” thing to do to offer EF masses, and these parishes are very understanding, generally, of tradition-minded Catholics. We aren’t so far gone from an era when tradition was stomped on and the Extraordinary Form mass was commonly presumed by the laity and many of the clergy alike to be “forbidden;” it never actually was, and I really don’t think it ever will be with the way things are going now. The parishes that offer both forms are following relatively new guidance from the pope, guidance that has not been instituted in all regions of our country yet.

I’d start with Wikipedia articles. They were really good, I thought, for an introduction to the Church and her history. The articles on Catholicism can occasionally be wrong, but they’re still usually very well-written and true to doctrine. The Catholic Church is a HUGE organization, consequently, it is an EXTREMELY complex organization. The Wikipedia articles can help you to begin to make sense of all of it. Sometimes you’ll probably feel quite overwhelmed. One term you’ll learn very quickly is “Vatican II.” I suggest you read up on it while you’re also engaging yourself in Church history. I don’t say this from a pro-modernism or pro-tradition standpoint. Rather, I say this because, without a doubt, Vatican II is the thing that has made the most impact on the Church in the last forty to fifty years.

My first advice to you reconciling and making sense of all this new information you’re about to absorb and be exposed to is this: accept, right now, “who” has authority in the Church. If you can accept that, then everything else will fall in to place. There is a hierarchy. The laity is at the bottom. In human form, on this planet right now, is the pope. Accept the authority of the Church and her human deacons, priests and bishops, and I will guarantee that everything will fall into place. Hey, I’ve been Catholic less than a year. I’ve been interested in Catholicism since about last September. I’ve learned a LOT in this short time. You can too. Just don’t give up. Sometimes you’ll get distracted by all this “stuff.” Just remember, though, that it’s just humans trying to do their best to respect, revere and worship God in the person of Jesus present in the Eucharist (communion).
 
YoungTradCath, you couldn’t have said it better! 👍

StephenW, what you saw yesterday is not an accurate representation of our religion. There are, as many people have said, very reverent Masses and very reverent Catholic Churches that show what Catholicism is all about. These are not necessarily Traditional Latin Masses, but I would imagine that most if not all Latin Masses are reverent and expressive of Catholic tradition.

Here’s a list of Traditional Latin Masses in Pennsylvania: web2.airmail.net/carlsch/EFMass/churches.htm#pennsylvania
 
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