First time wearing my mantilla

[PatienceAndLove]

All my veils are now gently put away and I hope to sell all of them one day at a flea market or church bizarre.

I also wear very wide headbands that I buy at Claires at the mall, but they do not cover the head entirely as is proper for Mass.

Here you go, Lovely Lady! Perhaps these would better for your particular circumstances?

 

[Unitas]

I have been a Catholic three years this past Easter Vigil. I started out always wearing a veil and received dirty looks from women and inaudible comments as they passed by me after Mass. A Deacon’s wife who teaches RCIA with her husband at this particular parish told me in a meeting that wearing a head covering is a grievous sin because it causes other people to take their minds off the Mass and to look and admire (if the veil is lovely) at my head covering. I was admonised for wearing one by both the deacon and his wife. I was told to take it off even during Adoration and only wear it in private prayer. I wrote a lengthy letter to the Monsignor of this parish about all the things being said to me by this Deacon and his wife during this meeting - hereitcal things regarding Holy Church - and nothing was done about them. Not to get off track, but I left this parish and now go to another. I no longer wear a mantilla/veil - but a kerchief, which is basically a disguise and is accepted by the women in today’s society. It’s a shame that I have fallen prey to the pangs of humiliation when I receive dirty looks from women - and also the fact that I spent hundreds of dollars on veils and lace head caps and feel I can no longer wear. I wore lovely handmade head caps, made by a Jewish woman on eBay - and they were quite beautiful; These head caps were so different and beautiful, that I received even more dirty looks and uncalled for sounds from passing women. All my veils are now gently put away and I hope to sell all of them one day at a flea market or church bizarre.

I also wear very wide headbands that I buy at Claires at the mall, but they do not cover the head entirely as is proper for Mass.

The people who give you dirty looks and make comments under their breath do so out of guilt because they know they should and could try harder and don’t. This is the place where “he/she thinks they’re better than everyone else” kind of comments come from.

Let them gawk.

Let them make comments.

Any suffering you experience for Jesus you will be rewarded for.

They should be too busy adoring the Lord than to make comments. Obviously gossiping and making rude comments is more important to them. Don’t let the whims of society have power over your pious practice. Too much of that has happened already.

 

[Unitas]

Unitas…there is no slinging of an insult here. The expression applies in this case and the expression probably came about from situations just like this.

A perjorative comment made with no factual proof is indeed an insult.

This fisheaters group and others like them IS trying to appear more catholic than the pope. The hierarchy of the Church, the pope and the magisterium, have made it clear that the wearing of a headcovering for women is no longer required…

If it is as clear as you say, there wouldn’t be 9 pages of replies on the issue.

What fisheaters is essentially saying is that they know better than the magisterium. (hence, they know better how to be a good catholic than the pope himself, through their own personal interpretation of scripture).

Where do they say they know better than the magisterium, or know better how to be a Catholic than the pope? Where do they say these things? The Church is silent on the issue. Where do they say “we’re right and the Church is wrong”? That’s right, they don’t. That’s something you made up and attributed to them to suit your argument.

That’s called a strawman.

Since this group refuses to tell the truth of who they are or even give their real names, they could well be members of some schismatic group not in union with the Church.

They are just as rebellious in their own way as the liberal dissenters.

I guess we’ll just have to take their word on it, the same as everyone here takes you being Catholic on your word. We don’t share our names here, so if we’re not to take them seriously then why take anyone on this forum seriously?

And why does knowing their names matter? If Ted Bundy himself were to say “murder is wrong” would that statement be incorrect just because he’s Ted Bundy? No. So your attempt to disprove their argument based on the fact they are anonymous is fallacious.

Again, your insult is based on your own interpretation and false strawman arguments. It’s still an insult.

 

[Unitas]

You’d have to bring that up with the Holy See. The promulgation of the Code of 1983 abrogated the Code of 1917 in toto. That’s not all there is, however, to the argument. The Holy See, in the document I already cited, specifically stated that it was a mutable disciplinary matter and women did not HAVE to veil themselves or cover their head in anyway. The Church has the same authority to rule on that as she does to say that some men may have their heads covered when they pray (bishops), though the Apostle seemed to have an issue with that as well.

As for immemorial custom, that would be an argument as to why the Church might not BAN the wearing of veils or hats by women.
And no one has said a woman may not or should not wear a covering. All that’s being said is what the Church says: they don’t have to as a matter of Divine or Church law.

My point is that veiling did not derive it’s force of law solely from the code of 1917. Therefore the code of 1917 being abrogated by the 1983, which remains silent on the issue, would not remove that force of law. The 1917 code would need to be abrogated in its entirety as well as the multi-centennial tradition for it to lose the force of law. That has not happened.

 

[TInsley]

I have been wearing mine for about three years. I would not walk in church with out one. You can find some pretty ones on ebay. At first I got a lot of stares but I offer it up as a penance. I so much wanted the Latin Mass to return. Now my prayers have been answered. Deo Gratis

 

[marchoi]

I have been wearing mine for about three years. I would not walk in church with out one. You can find some pretty ones on ebay. At first I got a lot of stares but I offer it up as a penance. I so much wanted the Latin Mass to return. Now my prayers have been answered. Deo Gratis

Firstly, I’m glad you’ve found a way to offer up a suffering - it’s really beautiful when little things (or big things?) like that can be offered up to God.

Now, when you say, “I would not walk in church without one,” how far does that go? I’ve had what I consider an awkward experience just a few weeks ago. I walked into a church in NYC with a group of other people. Now, a woman in the group turned and asked a man for his baseball cap, I suppose for the purposes of using it as a covering. I guess the guy didn’t understand the request, because I later saw the same lady walking in the church holding a piece of paper (or maybe it was an open book) on her head. I thought (and Lord have mercy if I shouldn’t have) that it was almost silly and sticking just to the letter (and not necessarily the spirit) of wearing a veil. So… what about a case like this? I mean, in this case, couldn’t she have offered up NOT being able to wear a veil?

And on a side note, I don’t know if this is me reading too much into what was written, but “I so much wanted the Latin Mass to return”? The Latin Mass never went anywhere. It’s been here the whole time. No need to want it to “return”.

 

[byers]

Unitas

Again, your insult is based on your own interpretation and false strawman arguments. It’s still an insult.

There was no “insult”. I spoke the truth. The issue here is not so much about wearinga headwhatever as it is about trying to warn people about certain sites that are promoting an agenda - an agenda that can lead to pride and false piety - and eventually even lead one right out of the Church!

We are talking about souls. It is a Christian duty when we see danger to warn others about it lest a brother fall into a pit.

Any site can post lovely catholic prayers and devotions etc. but that does not mean they are a truly catholic site in union with Rome. These are the hooks to get you involved. If the site didn’t seem ‘catholic’, no one would bother with it - obviously. Be very leery of any site that is not fully up front about who they really are and won’t even tell you their names, location etc. If they feel they are so correct - why are they hiding under anonymity?

Unfortunately these kinds of sites are especially appealing to those who are truly trying to live a good catholic life and grow in holiness and virtue, especially recent converts. . The devil would like nothing better than to fill them with false pride and turn them against the church.

First, it will be just some innocent things for example like wearing a headcovering making one feel that to be really ‘respectful’ and ‘holy’ you need to do this. Then it will have you questioning the validity of the Mass. Or questioning the authority of the Holy Father and the magisterium. And the next thing you know in your pride, you have become deceived and have fallen right into the laps of a schismatic group. They try to isolate you from the mainstream of catholicism and they plant the seeds to cause you to have doubts about things.

Those who were not practicing Catholics in the days when wearing a headcovering was required, need to really stop and ask themselves where they got the idea from to begin with and what is their motive. It is no longer required by the Church, therefore someone who wants you doing this has a very definite agenda and you are being influenced by them whether you realize it or not.

You can trust God’s Church to never lead you wrong - but you cannot trust some internet site - no matter how Catholic they appear to be.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

My point is that veiling did not derive it’s force of law solely from the code of 1917. Therefore the code of 1917 being abrogated by the 1983, which remains silent on the issue, would not remove that force of law. The 1917 code would need to be abrogated in its entirety as well as the multi-centennial tradition for it to lose the force of law. That has not happened.

Yeah, it has. Look in section 6 of the current code (abrogating the old code in its entirety) and see the Holy See explaination of the practice as a dicipline.

 

[Aramis]

My point is that veiling did not derive it’s force of law solely from the code of 1917. Therefore the code of 1917 being abrogated by the 1983, which remains silent on the issue, would not remove that force of law. The 1917 code would need to be abrogated in its entirety as well as the multi-centennial tradition for it to lose the force of law. That has not happened.

It was abrogated IN ENTIRETY.

Code of Canon Law: Table of Contents

Code of Canon Law: Table of Contents

www.vatican.va

Can. 6 §1. When this Code takes force, the following are abrogated:

1/ the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917;

Check the source: the Vatican Web Site’s English translation.

No quibbling… the 1983 explicitly abrogates (amonst other things not quoted) the canon law of 1917. Since it makes no exceptions to that abrogation, that’s a blanket abrogation.

 

[Pier]

I believe it is a matter of obedience…

We used to have to wear head coverings - then we didn’t, but we weren’t ever told we couldn’t.

Have seen women who have worn hats during the Mass, & even a couple of elderly women who have worn baseball-style caps…

We’ve never been told it was wrong - but we were told it isn’t necessary. If the Church says that we don’t have to, since Christ gave the Church the authority to hold us loosed or bound, we should be obedient. Either/or is allowed at this time. In Christ’s day, men wore robes - but men today are not required to adhere to that fact…

Not even in the Bible-based only denominations.

 

[Tommy_Joe]

I do my best to not concern myself with how others attend Mass.
How fellow worshipers choose to dress themselves has no bearing on the relationship I have with niether God nor Christ,…however; “judging” other parishoners attire does.

I wear a jacket and tie to Mass on Sunday, (if I was a woman, I’d wear a dress and cover my head),…I care not what anyone’s opinion of me, based on what I wear to Mass, is. How I’ve presented myself to God should only be of importantace to He and I.

If I were you,…I’d stop arguing.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

If I were you,…I’d stop arguing.

It’s not arguing for the sake of arguing, you know. No one positing the position that the Church has dispensed with this custom is saying women MAY not cover or SHOULD not cover, not a single poster. We’re simply saying that since the Church grants a liberty, it’s wrong to constrain the consciences of the women who choose NOT to cover by attempting to assert that it’s still required. It’s wrong to do that because it misrepresents the Church and it would be equally wrong to misrepresent the Church by saying that women no longer CAN cover.

 

[Aramis]

Either/or is allowed at this time. In Christ’s day, men wore robes - but men today are not required to adhere to that fact…

Not even in the Bible-based only denominations.

But some men, in both Catholic and Orthodox churches, ARE required to wear robes : the clergy. Outside the US, the default mode of dress expected of the clergy is usually the Cassock. And when participating in the liturgy by celebration or concelebration, the Alb is required; when clerics participate “in choir” the requirement is cassock.

 

[TInsley]

Firstly, I’m glad you’ve found a way to offer up a suffering - it’s really beautiful when little things (or big things?) like that can be offered up to God.

Now, when you say, “I would not walk in church without one,” how far does that go? I’ve had what I consider an awkward experience just a few weeks ago. I walked into a church in NYC with a group of other people. Now, a woman in the group turned and asked a man for his baseball cap, I suppose for the purposes of using it as a covering. I guess the guy didn’t understand the request, because I later saw the same lady walking in the church holding a piece of paper (or maybe it was an open book) on her head. I thought (and Lord have mercy if I shouldn’t have) that it was almost silly and sticking just to the letter (and not necessarily the spirit) of wearing a veil. So… what about a case like this? I mean, in this case, couldn’t she have offered up NOT being able to wear a veil?

And on a side note, I don’t know if this is me reading too much into what was written, but “I so much wanted the Latin Mass to return”? The Latin Mass never went anywhere. It’s been here the whole time. No need to want it to “return”.

I would not go that far,I would offer it up.One time I was on my way to Mass and I realized I forgot my veil and I turned around and went home and got it. It was a testimony to my daughter also who is 15.Now I keep one in my car at all times. As far as the Latin returning I’ am a convert I fell in love with the old church. There are no Latin Mass around here. Now thanks to the Pope there will be many in my parish. Our priests are jumping with joy to say the Tridentine Mass. I just wish my Bishop was that happy.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Those who were not practicing Catholics in the days when wearing a headcovering was required, need to really stop and ask themselves where they got the idea from to begin with and what is their motive. It is no longer required by the Church, therefore someone who wants you doing this has a very definite agenda and you are being influenced by them whether you realize it or not.

You can trust God’s Church to never lead you wrong - but you cannot trust some internet site - no matter how Catholic they appear to be.

Does that mean that I, as a 23 year old, am not supposed to wear a covering because I was not around (or even a thought) when covering was required?
We have the ability to cultivate a devotion, and the headcovering is such a devotion.
No one can be forced to wear one, and no one can be forced to remove one.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Firstly, I’m glad you’ve found a way to offer up a suffering - it’s really beautiful when little things (or big things?) like that can be offered up to God.

Now, when you say, “I would not walk in church without one,” how far does that go? I’ve had what I consider an awkward experience just a few weeks ago. I walked into a church in NYC with a group of other people. Now, a woman in the group turned and asked a man for his baseball cap, I suppose for the purposes of using it as a covering. I guess the guy didn’t understand the request, because I later saw the same lady walking in the church holding a piece of paper (or maybe it was an open book) on her head. I thought (and Lord have mercy if I shouldn’t have) that it was almost silly and sticking just to the letter (and not necessarily the spirit) of wearing a veil. So… what about a case like this? I mean, in this case, couldn’t she have offered up NOT being able to wear a veil?

And on a side note, I don’t know if this is me reading too much into what was written, but “I so much wanted the Latin Mass to return”? The Latin Mass never went anywhere. It’s been here the whole time. No need to want it to “return”.

When I foreget my veil or when I go into a church when I did not plan to I always ask Mary to wrap me in her veil and cover me. This takes care of the situation nicely.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

No one can be forced to wear one, and no one can be forced to remove one.

And that’s the issue, summed up nicely.

 

[paramedicgirl]

And that’s the issue, summed up nicely.

Oh, good. We can close the thread now.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I went to Mass in Pittsburgh with my parents today, and I chose to wear my daughter’s (3 yo) chapel cap instead of my black mantilla (to be less conspicuous, as this seemed a very “modern” parish). I had forgotten that I had left my mantilla in her church bag. She pulled it out, in the middle of mass, brought it over to me and said “that’s my hat Mama, this is yours!”

 

[Tommy_Joe]

I went to Mass in Pittsburgh with my parents today, and I chose to wear my daughter’s (3 yo) chapel cap instead of my black mantilla (to be less conspicuous, as this seemed a very “modern” parish). I had forgotten that I had left my mantilla in her church bag. She pulled it out, in the middle of mass, brought it over to me and said “that’s my hat Mama, this is yours!”

Thanks for sharing, what a sweet post.