First Tridentine Mass: Mixed Feelings

[Lycorth]

You don’t need to open your mouth to talk to God my friend He is within you and knows your every thought.

Amen!

Especially for those of us who cannot sing and are in that sense excluded from parts of the OF, the straight focus on prayer and attentiveness on the part of the congregation in the EF feels more comfortable, much less pressure. I can just stand there and pray and focus and not sometimes feel like I look like a zombie to others who can sing and are doing so.

 

[snowbee]

To the original poster:
Think of it this way.
36
21 Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, 22 and he said to his disciples, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.”
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He took along Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, 23 and began to feel sorrow and distress.
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Then he said to them, “My soul is sorrowful even to death. 24 Remain here and keep watch with me.”
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He advanced a little and fell prostrate in prayer, saying, “My Father, 25 if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will.”
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When he returned to his disciples he found them asleep. He said to Peter, “So you could not keep watch with me for one hour?
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Watch and pray that you may not undergo the test. 26 The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
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27 Withdrawing a second time, he prayed again, “My Father, if it is not possible that this cup pass without my drinking it, your will be done!”
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Then he returned once more and found them asleep, for they could not keep their eyes open.
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He left them and withdrew again and prayed a third time, saying the same thing again.
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Then he returned to his disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? Behold, the hour is at hand when the Son of Man is to be handed over to sinners.

Jesus was praying on the mount, just as our priest prays on the altar, sometimes the priest turns towards us almost to ask, “still awake there?” and we provide a brief response, “YES, we’re still with you!” Of course, not the actual responses but you get the idea. It is only an hour or so. Can you not either follow along for just one hour with Him?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I said in my original post that I said “twiddling my thumbs” in a tongue-in-cheek manner… I wasn’t ACTUALLY sitting there doing nothing, I was of course making every effort to pray fervently. It was just my little way of explaining the lack of dialogue in the Mass.

I’m sure it’s something that comes with practice, and with increased familiarity with the extraordinary form… I know I’ll grow more comfortable in it as time passes.

You’re right, it does take a while to get used to because the emphasis is different. Perhaps you could try and just soak it all in, without following everything in the missal. The rhythm of the Mass, the way its parts just flow from one to another can be truly an enriching experience. You already know what’s going on so try to unite yourself with the prayers at the altar, without focusing so much on the words. Sometimes I do that, and sometimes I follow the missal. Participating in TLM is in a way more complex and more simple that in NO at the same time. I feel that it is there that I can just be and worship the Lord without too many words.

 

[Moscati]

In reading all of the responses, I started thinking that perhaps the differences between the EF and the OF is like the difference between the sisters Mary and Martha in the Gospels.

I know I’ve always been more of a Martha person, and I have to really struggle to be still and just listen. The EF is really good for me, in that regard. I’m glad the Church has both (just like both Mary and Martha are saints).

 

[Ichbinian]

I like the EF, but I dislike.
-The Lack of Participation of the People.
-The Silent prayers.
-Instead of Paying attention, I spend half the time lost in the Missal.
-It’s a long drive from my house.

Oh come now. “Participation”? What is the Mass? The Mass is a prayer! We are participating by praying with the priest, raising our mind and heart to God. There is an incredible amount of participation by the people. Sing along with the choir! Respond to what the priest says! This is no different from the NO! There’s no denying it.

“Participation” in the NO can denote a kind of service (like a badly done NO or a Protestant liturgy). Participation does not have to be active, like jumping around or clapping hands or shaking people’s hands and hugging them (I am in no way saying you do these things). The EF is a different spirituality, a different form of Mass. It is more of a prayer than the Mass of Paul VI. What you need to do is get used to the participation in the EF as opposed to the different participation of the NO.

The Mass is primarily a sacrifice to God the Almighty - the same sacrifice as at Calvary! It is NOT primarily a meal or a communion service.

 

[Moscati]

There is an incredible amount of participation by the people. Sing along with the choir! Respond to what the priest says! This is no different from the NO! There’s no denying it.

Okay . . . I understand what you’re saying, and I agree with the sentiment completely.

But people attending my EF actually glare at me when I attempt to sing along with the all-male choir (I’m female). And I’m not that bad–I’ve managed to hold my own in an OF choir, and I know how to pronounce the Latin. The priest even chastised the congregation once in his homily for speaking our responses “too loudly”. The church was only a quarter of the way full (and no one was shouting)–how could we possibly be too loud? /end rant

I love the EF. I really do. But there is a difference. It’s a good difference, a Mary/Martha kind of difference, but it’s different!

 

[LilyM]

See that tabernacle, just behind the altar? You know that thing you’re always forgetting when that young drummer does an amazing fill that just raises your spirits, or perhaps you just don’t see it most of the time as the priest is blocking it while facing the congregation? That’s Jesus, the real Christ, manifested by his whole person in those little communion wafers inside that tabernacle. Let’s make no mistake that most of us forget that (just watch how many people genuflect when there is no Most Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle. It’s amazing).

What a gross generalisation. In 20-some years of regular NO attendance I’ve NEVER not been able to see the Tabernacle during Mass, unless, for example, the Blessed Sacrament is reserved in a separate chapel.

Indeed, I tend to focus on it rather than the priest - the fact that he’s facing the congregation doesn’t distract me in the slightest.

 

[JustaServant]

Okay . . . I understand what you’re saying, and I agree with the sentiment completely.

But people attending my EF actually glare at me when I attempt to sing along with the all-male choir (I’m female). And I’m not that bad–I’ve managed to hold my own in an OF choir, and I know how to pronounce the Latin. The priest even chastised the congregation once in his homily for speaking our responses “too loudly”. The church was only a quarter of the way full (and no one was shouting)–how could we possibly be too loud? /end rant

I love the EF. I really do. But there is a difference. It’s a good difference, a Mary/Martha kind of difference, but it’s different!

When I am at an EF and I know the words in Latin I sing along, people can glare all they want. After a certain age ya don’t care anymore.
Maybe its a middle-aged guy thing.

 

[paperwight]

See that tabernacle, just behind the altar? You know that thing you’re always forgetting when that young drummer does an amazing fill that just raises your spirits,

That is really, really objectionable. And ignorant. And a slur on OF Mass-goers.

 

[Moscati]

When I am at an EF and I know the words in Latin I sing along, people can glare all they want. After a certain age ya don’t care anymore.
Maybe its a middle-aged guy thing.

Perhaps. I’m a twenty-something female and a relatively new convert. All the glaring makes me want to put my veil in front of my face and sink into the pew.

 

[JustaServant]

Perhaps. I’m a twenty-something female and a relatively new convert. All the glaring makes me want to put my veil in front of my face and sink into the pew.

Well, you could make faces at them.
Seriously I prefer a more participitory EF, if anything because I want to DO something other then kneel and force my mind not to wander.

 

[Ichbinian]

Is it a diocesan, FSSP, or SSPX mass?

 

[Timothysis]

The EF is a different spirituality, a different form of Mass. It is more of a prayer than the Mass of Paul VI.

If the Pauline Mass is less of a prayer, then, prey tell, what is it? The liturgy of the Mass is the supreme prayer of the Church. Whether the liturgy is the EF or the OF, they both do exactly the same thing with the same efficacy for those who receive in a state of grace.

 

[Ichbinian]

That depends on some things. Are you assuming that the particular OF Mass is said perfectly and reverently, and the same for the particular EF Mass? Because there are loopholes in the OF rubrics that have allowed for many abuses.

Also, one can get more graces by attending a Mass celebrated by a very holy priest, e.g., Padre Pio, Cure of Ars.

 

[paperwight]

Hmmm… I’m not so sure about that, given that even if the priest is in a state of mortal sin, the Mass is still valid. The Sacrifice is still offered, and the supreme gift of Holy Communion remains the same.

I can see that one could FEEL in receipt of more graces, more moved and so on, but to say one actually receives more graces?

 

[Timothysis]

Also, one can get more graces by attending a Mass celebrated by a very holy priest, e.g., Padre Pio, Cure of Ars.

I’ve often wondered how one person can be more sanctified than another…

 

[ProVobis]

I’ve often wondered how one person can be more sanctified than another…

Maybe that’s why we call him Holy Father?

 

[Lamafacaja]

A few weeks ago I attended my first Tridentine Liturgy, something I’ve been meaning to do for some time now. And while others’ testimonies seem to be nothing but glowing, I find myself of mixed opinion on my experience.

For starters, I’m not totally in bed with anyone liturgy as the “best.” I love the Novus Ordo, I’m in awe of the majesty and mystery of the Divine Liturgies of the Eastern Rites, and I see a great deal of beauty in the Tridentine Liturgy. It’s a mass very rich in symbolism and ritual, which I find incredibly beautiful, and reading the texts of the mass is a very inspiring experience – there are definitely a few things from the old mass that I wish we’d incorporate into the Novus Ordo!

My biggest problem, however, was my own lack of participation. Much of the Eucharistic Prayer is said inaudibly by the priest, and while I can read along in a missal, it isn’t quite the same as hearing the words audibly. And many of the responses are simply sung by the choir of chanters (who are AMAZING), and I find that the majority of my time at mass is spent twiddling my thumbs in the pew. Now, I say that with some sarcasm because of course I was keeping myself attentive to the Mass, but it was still a bit of a difficulty.

All said, I see a great deal of what people love about the Tridentine Liturgy, but I don’t think it’s something I could ever do every week as my regular Mass. I routinely move between my home parish, a nearby Byzantine Catholic church, and now I’m adding the parish in our diocese that celebrates the Latin Mass to my rotation, but I have a hard time imagining experiencing the Tridentine Mass every week.

Just thought I’d offer my thoughts as a first-timer

I understand how you feel about the lack of outward participation, because it really is different from the NO in this regard, unless you’re singing the Mass… At the TLM, our participation is primarily interior.

Approach it with the understanding that the TLM is a primarily quiet Mass because everything is being directed towards God, as opposed to being directed towards us; the faithful. It’s in this silence that Our Lord meets us. Try the TLM a few more times before you decide, reading the missal before you go.

 

[Ichbinian]

experiencing the Tridentine Mass every week.

Pray the Mass. Do not experience it.

 

[BernadetteM]

Although the Anglican Use Mass is at this time only celebrated in a few parishes, with the offer of Pope Benedict to Anglicans to come into the Church and bring their treasures of Patrimony, there will be more and more of these parishes.

The Anglican Use parishes will be under an Ordinariate and are Latin Rite. Any Catholic can attend these Masses and fifull their Sunday obligations.

The Liturgy will be changing when the Ordinariates are established. Their liturgy is more like the Traditional Latin Mass, but with much participation from the congregation.

So for Catholics who find themselves in the middle of liking both the OF and EF, but would like more participation the Anglican Use Mass would probably satisfy them.

Catholics are a varied bunch and one Mass is no more legitimate than another. I understand that some want more than they feel the OF offers them personally and just don’t feel they fit in with the TLM/EF either. Maybe in the future if someone gets an opportunity to attend an Anglican Use Mass they will find a middle ground.

You can see what the Anglican Use Mass looks like at this time on Our Lady of the Atonement Catholic Church, San Antonio, TX, by going to the website, just put in the above name. The parish has around 2000 members and many are Latin Rite, some are former Episcopalians or Anglicans and some are protestants who have converted.

I go to a more traditional OF parish and feel very comfortable there, but would attend an Anglican Use parish if there were one in my area. Hopefully in the future there will be many more.

This is just a suggestion for anyone who is torn between the EF and the OF.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette