Fish Friday.

[Mammoths]

Church authorities have the power to make new disciplinary laws that are binding on the faithful. They also have the power to change old disciplinary laws or abrogate them entirely. This has to do with the power of the keys given to the Church when Jesus said, “… whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19;18:18) We see an example of this in the decision of the council at Jerusalem mentioned in Acts 15. After Jesus had declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19), the apostles and other church authorities decided for pastoral reasons to temporarily prohibit Christians from eating certain foods, namely, “what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled.” (Acts 15:29)

Remember what the author of Hebrews said, “Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account.” (Hebrews 13:17)

As far as church laws go, the so-called Precepts of the Church are pretty much all an ordinary Catholic needs to know of canon law. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, bold mine:
The Precepts of the Church

2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. the obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the indispensable minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:

2042 The first precept (“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation.") requires the faithful to participate in the Eucharistic celebration when the Christian community gathers together on the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord.82

The second precept (“You shall confess your sins at least once a year.") ensures preparation for the Eucharist by the reception of the sacrament of reconciliation, which continues Baptism’s work of conversion and forgiveness.83

The third precept (“You shall humbly receive your Creator in Holy Communion at least during the Easter season.") guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lord’s Body and Blood in connection with the Paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.84

2043 The fourth precept (“You shall keep holy the holy days of obligation.") completes the Sunday observance by participation in the principal liturgical feasts which honor the mysteries of the Lord, the Virgin Mary, and the saints.85

The fifth precept (“You shall observe the prescribed days of fasting and abstinence.") ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts; they help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.86

The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his abilities.87 (source)

Also Paul says we are slaves to what we obey. That’s not a negative. We have to be slaves of God or slaves of unrighteousness. So we do need to discern whether we obey God’s delegate or an imposter. Imposters nest in the branches of the church. It can be hard to find the church among the birds at times.

Is there a definition of “ability” wrt supporting the church? Should a catholic give progressively based on income or is it a strict percent?

 

[Todd977]

Is there a definition of “ability” wrt supporting the church? Should a catholic give progressively based on income or is it a strict percent?

No. The amount of support a Catholic gives to provide for the material needs of the Church is left to the individual, as St Paul said, “Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2 Cor 5:7)

According to one source the average annual Catholic household weekly offertory is $10 per week.

 

[Mammoths]

No. The amount of support a Catholic gives to provide for the material needs of the Church is left to the individual, as St Paul said, “Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2 Cor 5:7)

I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that Catholics on average donate between 1% and 2% of their income to the Church.

This is highly unusual. Most Protestant sermons I’ve heard talk about 10% as a minimum. Half the time Malachi gets referenced and usually the person making the statements has his ex-wife’s blood on his garments while his new wife stands there pretending everything is fine.

Malachi 3:8 NIV
8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me. But you ask, “How are we robbing you?” “In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the Lord Almighty. 12 “Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the Lord Almighty.

Malachi 2:13 NIV

Another thing you do: You flood the Lord’s altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer looks with favor on your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. 14 You ask, “Why?” It is because the Lord is the witness between you and the wife of your youth. You have been unfaithful to her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.15 Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring.[d] So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.16 “The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect,”[e] says the Lord Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful.

I try to explain to these people that tithing is a mosaic law to cover the needs of the temple and the levites and the law is completed, fulfilled done. But I guess they have selective theology.

 

[Todd977]

This is highly unusual. Most Protestant sermons I’ve heard talk about 10% as a minimum.

I was wrong about the 1-2%. New info I found online suggests that the average Catholic household in the United States, with an annual income of about $60,000, gives about $495 annually, which is less than 1% of their annual income.

In recent years, I have seen suggestions by Church leaders that those Catholics who can ought to consider tithing as an ideal, giving 5% to provide for the material needs of the Church and 5% to other charities but they are only suggestions.

 

[Mammoths]

I was wrong about the 1-2%. New info I found online suggests that the average Catholic household in the United States, with an annual income of about $60,000, gives about $495 annually, which is less than 1% of their annual income.

In recent years, I have seen suggestions by Church leaders that those Catholics who can ought to consider tithing as an ideal, giving 5% to provide for the material needs of the Church and 5% to other charities but they are only suggestions.

There is a reality that people tend to put charity on the bottom of their budget if they even do one. Supporting the church and other charities should be a sacrifice not a matter of convenience. It’s not a spare dollar you would have spent on a Reese’s. Maybe a change in the diet or a staycation instead of a vacation. But some of us already are eating donated food. 10% of my income would mean not paying utilities and I have five dependents. But we still donate frequently to Christian charities.

 

[tee_eff_em]

No, I’m not saying that you have to pick something you hate. Rather, pick something that isn’t a treat.

There we go! “Mastery over our appetites”! Exactly!

So… if you loved sushi, would it be an example of “mastery over your appetite” if you had sushi on Fridays in Lent? Would that be a ‘penitential’ meal for you?

It is mastery over my appetite to abstain from flesh meat – Which I also love. It is penitential for me to abstain from those foods which the Church asks me to avoid.

tee

 

[Bridgit_Andrews]

The whole point is that it’s not about substitution something to make you miserable, but rather that Fridays in Lent (actually all Fridays) are supposed to be penitential to join us more closely to Calvary. We don’t need to suffer, but at the same time if we follow the law without turning our minds to the Paschal sacrifice then it means nothing. Since I eat neither fish, nor fowl, nor beast I comply with the law, but it is not sacrificial and hence why I try to follow both the letter and the spirit of the law through sacrificial acts; basically sacrifice in order to die to self to come closer to Christ.

This right here exactly. Otherwise, one is simply overthinking it.

To the OP:

I’m mostly lacto-ovo vegetarian so for me, giving up meat for lent is questionable. I give up most meats most of the year. Because of health concerns, I can’t give up eggs and milk but I can cut back on Fridays during lent. I also gave up grains (for more than one reason) for lent this year. Is it penance? Yes. Is it dieting? Yes. Does it bring me closer to God? Yes, when I’m reminded to pray while my family eats biscuits that I made or bread that I baked for them and I can’t have any as a way of sacrifice.

So don’t overthink the meat thing. It just leads to scrupulosity or legalism or both. Follow the teaching as well as you can. We are not perfect so that is the best any of us can do.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

That’s probably a good way to say it. One of the things that always bothered me when I became Catholic was KofC Lenten Fish Fries. It wasn’t that they were serving fish, but that the fish fries I attended were near on to a feast with huge slabs of fish, choice of 2 or 3 types of potatoes, salads, beer or wine, and a couple different desserts. It followed the law of abstinence, but not the penitential spirit.

I live in a place with a moderate Catholic population and the KofC doesn’t seem to have much influence here. However, a number of local restaurants do advertise “Friday Fish Specials” during Lent. Most are fairly basic, 2 or 3 pieces of fried fish, 1 side dish, maybe a small dessert.

I have noticed with SOME Catholics who are just going through the motions and not stopping to think about WHY the Church teaches such things. I even recall an earlier CAF topic that had some people strenuously defending how even eating sushi on Lenten Fridays was A-OK. “All the Church asks of us is to abstain from meat! It doesn’t ask anything else!”

Though to be fair, some of the people posting claimed to hate sushi, and to be eating only cheap sushi, and so meeting the requirements beyond just the bare legalistic minimum. (I personally think eating cheap sushi isn’t work the risk of food poisoning, but YMMV. I do like quality sushi of at least a moderate price point, though.)

Sometimes I get a feeling there is this “folk Catholicism” out there that is very superficial and legalistic. People practicing “folk Catholicism” see rituals and devotions as essentially acts of magic that have no meaning behind them except “the Church sez so”, or are guaranteed to have a particular result. (There also may be some syncretism going on in certain cultures.)

I’d also count the notions such as “wearing the Brown Scapular guarantees Salvation as long as you NEVER take it off, not even in the shower” also to reflect this kind of superstitious “folk Catholicism”.

Now, I do recall reading in local history sources that lobster and oysters, now both considered luxury “special occasion” foods, used to be really cheap and hence considered “junk food for the poor”, that lobster meat was fed to prisoners, and oysters used to be sold on the street very cheaply up to the 1800s as essentially that time’s equivalent of “fast food”.

However, I don’t think this justifies anyone eating lobster and oysters on Lenten Fridays.

The whole point is that it’s not about substitution something to make you miserable, but rather that Fridays in Lent (actually all Fridays) are supposed to be penitential to join us more closely to Calvary. We don’t need to suffer, but at the same time if we follow the law without turning our minds to the Paschal sacrifice then it means nothing. Since I eat neither fish, nor fowl, nor beast I comply with the law, but it is not sacrificial and hence why I try to follow both the letter and the spirit of the law through sacrificial acts; basically sacrifice in order to die to self to come closer to Christ.

Since I usually enjoy fish and other seafoods, if I ever do become Catholic, I’d be more comfortable eating vegetarian meals on “days of abstinence”. I guess people who are already vegetarians may need to limit some particular food they’d usually enjoy.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I have noticed with SOME Catholics who are just going through the motions and not stopping to think about WHY the Church teaches such things. I even recall an earlier CAF topic that had some people strenuously defending how even eating sushi on Lenten Fridays was A-OK. “All the Church asks of us is to abstain from meat! It doesn’t ask anything else!”

Perhaps that is true of SOME Catholics, but it really is not far off the mark. It is not the case that the Church *doesn’t ask anything else! *-- She asks us to express penitence. However it is true that the way the Church asks us to manifest our expression of penitence is by abstaining from meat – She does not require anything else.

Since I usually enjoy fish and other seafoods, if I ever do become Catholic, I’d be more comfortable eating vegetarian meals on “days of abstinence”. I guess people who are already vegetarians may need to limit some particular food they’d usually enjoy.

If ever you do become Catholic, that will be fine. But unless you become a bishop, pastor, or are otherwise placed in authority over souls, you should not require more of anyone than the Church requires. :twocents:

tee

 

[Vico]

I am very fond of fish for dinner. Also other meats are delicious. I heard there is some tradition about fish on Friday. What is it? Why? What about:

(Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
Col 2:16
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths,
17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

And

1 Timothy 4:3

3 Forbidding …] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.

St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Second Part of the Second Part, Question 147 Fasting
Article 8. Whether it is fitting that those who fast should be bidden to abstain from flesh meat, eggs, and milk foods?
I answer that, As stated above (Article 6), fasting was instituted by the Church in order to bridle the concupiscences of the flesh, which regard pleasures of touch in connection with food and sex. Wherefore the Church forbade those who fast to partake of those foods which both afford most pleasure to the palate, and besides are a very great incentive to lust. Such are the flesh of animals that take their rest on the earth, and of those that breathe the air and their products, such as milk from those that walk on the earth, and eggs from birds. For, since such like animals are more like man in body, they afford greater pleasure as food, and greater nourishment to the human body, so that from their consumption there results a greater surplus available for seminal matter, which when abundant becomes a great incentive to lust. Hence the Church has bidden those who fast to abstain especially from these foods.

Eastern Catholic churches observer differently than the Latin Church, for example:

Byzantine Catholic Church (USA) Particular Law
Canon 880 §2
§1. The special penitential seasons are:

1. 
   *]The Great Fast
   *]The Peter and Paul Fast
   *]The Dormition Fast [August 1-14]
   *]The Philip Fast [November 15-December 24]
   
   §2. Strict abstinence is to be observed on the first day of the Great Fast and on Great Friday. Simple abstinence is to be observed on Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast.
   §3. Simple abstinence or an equivalent penance is to be observed on all Fridays throughout the year.
   
   Eparchy of Passaic Fasting Regulations
   †All who receive Communion in the Eparchy of Passaic are required to abstain from meat on Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast.
   †All adults who receive Communion in the Eparchy of Passaic are required to abstain from meat, eggs, and milk products on the first day of Lent, Monday, and on Great and Holy Friday.
   †These are the minimum requirements; however, the faithful are encouraged to do more.
   Dispensation
   †Pastors and Administrators may, for a just cause, grant to the individual faithful and to individual families, dispensations or commutations of the fasting rules into other pious practices.