Fisher More college banned from celebrating EF

[RPRPsych]

Your intent to smear Fisher More by linking them to the Remnant (calling them anti-Catholic…really?) is telling; you are perfectly willing to smear Catholics, throw them under the bus, so to speak, to defend bad decisions by bishops.

Telling.

I didn’t link to them, mon ami. Fisher More did:

fishermore.edu/welcome/

As you said, “Telling.”

 

[steymard]

Not as long as they link to anti-Catholic garbage like The Remnant.

Since the students who attend Fisher More comprise the main body of faithful at that chapel, and since they are not responsible for the content of the college website, I think the expression “body of faithful” should be maintained in all charity.

I maintain that solicitude for the students and the benefit of the doubt should be extended to them. We will wait on more hard facts and news.

 

[Brendan]

Of course you say that I am in error, because you disagree with me.

Reality however, often defies our arguments, and the pursuit of Christian perfection remains independent of any form of the Mass.

-Tim-

So if it is their mission, are they not the ones to define what the essence of that mission is?

if not, who is?

 

[RPRPsych]

Well, it’s a convenient explanation but there’s probably more to it than that.

I agree. This is the only hard evidence we have so far; everything else is speculation. But if there are truly links to the Resistance movement, then I think we should be applauding this bishop.

 

[ProVobis]

Not as long as they link to anti-Catholic garbage like The Remnant.

Well, it’s a convenient explanation but the whole internet is “linked” so what’s your point?

 

[RPRPsych]

Since the students who attend Fisher More comprise the main body of faithful at that chapel, and since they are not responsible for the content of the college website, I think the expression “body of faithful” should be maintained in all charity.

Point taken. The “body of faithful” stands. But someone in the administration has clearly placed that link there, unless you’re going to convince us that Fisher More were attacked by an Anonymous hacking campaign. Oh, the “lulz”.

 

[TimothyH]

There was a time when I would have disagreed with you. I love the Latin Mass, and I appreciate very much what Pope Benedict XVI was trying to do when he gave us Summorum Pontificum. But as you point out, it only seems to have made things worse. In trying to show compassion and kindness to those who want the older form of the Mass, it seems to have empowered them to rebellion against the hierarchy.

How very tragic that this beautiful liturgy is being used as a weapon by Catholics against other Catholics.

I think we, who have disagreed in the past, are on the same page here. There is much distrust. Christ prayed for unity in John 17. This is not it.

I would not only give my assent but would embrace whatever the Church proposed for the salvation of my soul.

-Tim-

 

[Brooklyn]

Well, it’s a convenient explanation but the whole internet is “linked” so what’s your point?

If someone links a website to anti-semitic garbage, wouldn’t you be suspicious they are anti-semitic? So if a Catholic college links to sites that constantly denounce the hierarchy of the Church, don’t you wonder what their true motivations are?

 

[Sirach2]

Brooklyn:

The problem with your statement is you are comparing apples and oranges. A private order such as FSSP has identified Traditional Liturgy as their charism, and there is nothing wrong with that. But a college is a public institution, and to exclude any part of the Catholic Church shows a definite prejudice on their part and can be very harmful to the students because it will prejudice them against those who do not think like they do.

Agree. This notice is posted on Fisher More’s website:

The College has been notified by the Bishop of Fort Worth, the Most Rev. Michael Olson, that it no longer has permission to have the public celebration of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass in the College chapel, including Sundays and weekdays. Effective immediately and until further notice, the daily Mass schedule is suspended.

IOW, since the bishop suspended the EF, they will not offer the OF either. It deprives the students of celebrating the liturgy simply because they are not celebrated according to the EF. Sounds like blackmail to me.

 

[RPRPsych]

Well, it’s a convenient explanation but the whole internet is “linked” so what’s your point?

If I post a link to a site on my own site, that’s a conscious choice.

Suppose I were the principal of a Catholic college, and placed a link to a Sedevacantist site, or “Maria Divine Mercy”, on my homepage, would it still be excused just because “the Internet is linked”?

 

[digitalpapist]

Whoa, you need to take a breath. Fisher More, as RPRPsych has shown, links to both The Remant and Catholic Family News on their website. There is no smearing here, just a showing of the facts. No one is throwing anyone under the bus.

Which must be supported by

A. Showing that the Remnant and CFN are anti-Catholic, which is absurd

B. Showing that if condition A is met, why should that impact the *students *of the college.

C. Is this really the most pressing case in that diocese?

So, yes, it is smearing. I read the Remnant, not so much CFN. I have seen nothing from then that indicates being anti-Catholic.

But please, continue in such calumny against fellow traditionalists in order to make this situation intelligible.

 

[Brooklyn]

I think we, who have disagreed in the past, are on the same page here. There is much distrust. Christ prayed for unity in John 17. This is not it.

I would not only give my assent but would embrace whatever the Church proposed for the salvation of my soul.

-Tim-

I’ve been going through a lot of changes in the past couple of years. I was once very much in sync with groups like Catholic Family News and The Remnant. But I started listening to the church without their “interpretation” and found out just how wrong they really are. Now I find I’m at odds with almost all of my “traditionalist” friends. I no longer trust my own feelings. I listen to what the Church says, and I find I can never go wrong that way. If the Church is wrong(!), the Lord will correct it. He doesn’t need my help.

 

[clem456]

Not that complicated.
Just be obedient. Go to the Mass that’s offered.


These are words of Wisdom from Brooklyn above^

I listen to what the Church says, and I find I can never go wrong that way. If the Church is wrong(!), the Lord will correct it. He doesn’t need my help.

 

[Brooklyn]

Agree. This notice is posted on Fisher More’s website:

IOW, since the bishop suspended the EF, they will not offer the OF either. It deprives the students of celebrating the liturgy simply because they are not celebrated according to the EF. Sounds like blackmail to me.

Whew. This gets worser and worser. Not to offer the Mass at all, to deprive the students of this blessing, is beyond the pale.

 

[ProVobis]

I think the issue at stake here is whether the local bishop can place a blanket ban celebration of the 1962 missal. According to Summorum Pontificum, priests do not need permission from the local ordinary to make use of the 1962 rites (and the community at Fisher More certainly seems like a stable group of faithful, does it not?). But if he can ban it, it appears that his permission is needed. This is why I do not think his decision will hold up under church law once the appeal has been submitted to Ecclesia Dei, and I pray for its speedy resolution.

Perhaps more importantly the issue of what can be taught at an institution of higher learning is at stake too. I hope it doesn’t come down to that. Suppressing knowledge is not a good thing IMO. The Index of Forbidden Books was removed in 1965 for good reason.

 

[Brooklyn]

Which must be supported by

A. Showing that the Remnant and CFN are anti-Catholic, which is absurd

B. Showing that if condition A is met, why should that impact the *students *of the college.

C. Is this really the most pressing case in that diocese?

So, yes, it is smearing. I read the Remnant, not so much CFN. I have seen nothing from then that indicates being anti-Catholic.

But please, continue in such calumny against fellow traditionalists in order to make this situation intelligible.

Okey, dokey.

 

[steymard]

I think the question remains as to the extent of a bishop’s lawful authority. Using the missal of 1962 is a liturgical matter. Posting links to website that contain highly questionable and dangerous material is another, the addressing of which certainly does pertain to the bishop.

The point is, addressing such connections lies within a bishop’s competence. But once the questionable connection has been identified, the bishop does not then have carte blanche to administer any and all penalties. Special church law in Summorum Pontificum does not cease to apply and prevents this particular action from being taken. You may disagree, and that’s fine - we will see what Ecclesia Dei has to say.

 

[RPRPsych]

Which must be supported by

A. Showing that the Remnant and CFN are anti-Catholic, which is absurd

Let’s post some links from the Remnant. I truly dislike doing this - it’s like touching pitch, and I feel defiled - but the truth must be told. (I didn’t touch CFN, so I’ll let those who brought it up handle that.)

1. Contempt towards the late Pope Paul VI, and questioning the miracle that leads to his beatification:

remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/305-vatican-congregation-declares-novus-ordo-miracle-for-canonization-of-paul-vi

1. Questioning the validity of Benedict XVI’s abdication and showing contempt for Pope Francis, despite the words of Pope Benedict XVI to the contrary:

remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/274-latest-updates-from-socci-the-papal-games

1. Outright rejection of Pope Benedict’s teaching on the hermeneutic of continuity, which has been endorsed by Pope Francis:

remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/221-the-hermeneutic-of-continuity-or-adventures-in-bluffing

1. Encouraging readers to visit the schismatic SSPX and stay away from the Church:

remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/233-what-would-jesus-do-with-the-sspx

1. Creating a false division and accusing all those who disagree with them of being “neo-Catholic”:

remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/108-the-trad-bash

1. Wilful denigration and misrepresentation of another Catholic apostolate:

remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/94-a-catholic-answer-to-catholic-answers

If a Baptist or Pentecostal site posted this trash, they’d be immediately called out for anti-Catholicism. These guys don’t get a free pass simply because they throw the words Latin Mass, Fatima and Pius X out at the latest opportunity. St. Pius X would weep to see this digital buffoonery.

B. Showing that if condition A is met, why should that impact the *students *of the college.

Oh please. If I’m the principal of a Catholic college, charged with forming their souls, and I recommend schismatic junk to them, do you think it’ll have no impact on them whatsoever? If I linked to Veronica Lueken or Call to Action, would you excuse me saying that “students aren’t going to be impacted anyway?”

C. Is this really the most pressing case in that diocese?

It could be. Even if it isn’t, there is a serious case to be answered.

But please, continue in such calumny against fellow traditionalists in order to make this situation intelligible.

Calumny? They are convicted out of their own mouths.

 

[clem456]

The question IS, what is the charism of the college? Each spirituality has it’s own calling by which souls are to be formed.
The FSSP and CRoSJC both have a charism to form souls via the Extraordinary Form. And that charism is recognized by the Church.

So I would say that you are in error, it IS reasonable for a Traditional Catholic movement to claim that the EF is essential (core to the essence of) their mission

Ummm, wow…

Spirituality…which spirituality? Spirituality in a vague sense? Or Catholic spirituality?

Catholic spirituality is always always always (did I say always?) in obedience to the Church. To claim that celebrating the OF of the Mass is not compatible with a Catholic mission is just nonsense, as other posters have pointed out.

 

[Sirach2]

Steymard:

So: that portion of law which came after 1962 and which conflicts with the 1962 books simply does not apply to the use of those books. This means that according to law, use of female altar servers and lay lectors is not permitted in the use of the 1962 missal. I find that the letter from the diocese of Davenport, in this respect, does not faithfully reflect the universal legislation of Benedict XVI. I feel no need, then, to believe that its interpretation of “extraordinary” and “ordinary” reflects the mind of Benedict XVI either.

Re the blue, you are entitled to express your opinion, but that does not make it correct and in fact, misleads others.

Re your misstatement on altar servers in the EF:

Q: Is there any definitive answer available regarding the use of female servers at celebrations of the extraordinary form of the Roman rite? – A.J., Pontypridd, Wales

A: Although a clarifying instruction on several such questions was frequently described as “imminent,” a long time has passed and it would seem that it is still in the pipeline.

All the same, it is important to remember that, even in the ordinary form, the use of female altar servers is in virtue of a specific permission and is not automatic. As the Holy See has explained on several occasions, **the local bishop may permit the use of female servers **but may not oblige the pastor to use them.

zenit.org/en/articles/female-servers-in-the-extraordinary-form