Five Biblical Arguments for Praying to Saints and Angels

[Paul_Edwards]

Devotion to Our Mothers Immaculate Heart does not stop us from also going directly to God

 

[Paul_Edwards]

I think if any clever person says praying to Mary is a sin they’ll go to Hell unless they change

 

[Cathoholic]

Atjar. You stated:

Our lords prayer is the perfect prayer.if others want to pray it with me they r welcome to. And that is more than enough.

Where do you get the idea that the Our Father Prayer (“The Lord’s Prayer”) is “more than enough”?

And “more than enough” for what?

Wouldn’t you say you need the actions of the rest of the Church?

 

[PeaceInChrist]

I used to be of the opinion that the intercession of saints was good, but praying to God directly was the preferred method. Now I see that both ways are necessary to holiness, particularly for weak little souls like me.

By praying with Mary I have come so much closer to Christ. She has helped me meditate on her Son’s passion. I have never been closer to Christ. I was prideful to make light of her intercession. It is pleasing to God that she bring souls to Him. There need be no other reason than that: He can (and He does) will it. When I swallowed my pride and threw myself into Mary’s arms, I found myself at the foot of the Cross of Jesus.

Christ didn’t need to become flesh through a woman. He didn’t need to change the water into wine, He didn’t need to give us His Mother as our advocate. But He did, because He loves us. Mary can guide even the weakest of souls to Him, and she assists in a way that I couldn’t do myself. She is one of the surest ways to Christ, and I am so grateful for her.

Anyone who makes light of the intercession of the saints should listen to the words of the Mass, and read Catholic teaching on merit (‘the souls of a righteous man avail much’).

 

[thistle]

I wanted to make this list of arguments for praying to the saints and angels because I think it’s very useful to have a single “reference-sheet” for discussions where you are dealing with Protestants. This page has passages where prayers are made to the angels and saints and passages that support the concept in secondary ways.1) “Bless the Lord, O you his angels” (Psalms 103:20) “Bless the Lord, all his hosts” (Psalms 103:21) “Praise him, all his angels” – “Praise him, all his host” (Psalms 148:1-2) “Rejoice over her, O heaven, O saints and apostles and prophets.” (Revelation 18:20)These verses show that we can address the saints and angels in heaven when we pray. The difference between the prayer, “Bless the Lord, all his hosts” and “Pray for me, all his hosts” is only the difference between two kinds of prayer. Either way you are addressing the people in heaven, it’s just that if you pray the first way, you’re asking the saints to pray with you, and if you pray the second way, you’re asking the saints to pray for you.2) “[T]he twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb…[with] incense, which [is] the prayers of the saints.” (Revelation 5:8) “And another angel came…and he was given much incense to [offer] with the prayers of all the saints.” (Revelation 8:3)These verses tell us two things about the saints in heaven. First, they have our prayers and they bring them before God. This shows that they’ve received them. The “incense” of prayer rises to the saints according to this passage. That shows the saints being prayed to at the very least by some people. Second, the saints in heaven are praying about our prayers. People don’t fall down before God for nothing. Rev. 8:3 makes this clearer by saying that incense-prayer from heaven was added to the incense-prayer from earth. This shows us that the saints in heaven add their prayers to ours. Therefore, they receive our prayers, present them to God, and join their prayers to ours.3) “[Jacob] strove with the angel and prevailed, [then] he wept and sought his favor.” (Hosea 12:4) “[T]he angel who has redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads.” (Genesis 48:16)These passages show angels being prayed to. Jacob prayed to an angel for his favor and then later asks him to bless his children. The Hosea passage is clarified by Genesis 32:24-29, where Jacob says to the angel, “I will not let you go, unless you bless me.” Some people argue that the angel was actually God because in verse 30 Jacob says, “I have seen God face to face,” but Hosea 12:4 says it was an angel. Genesis 32:30 could mean that Jacob thought the angel was God, or understood that angels bear with them the real presence of God. It is also significant that God has no body. That means the reference to His face is symbolic. It refers to God’s presence.4) “[A]t your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir. Hear, O daughter, consider, and incline your ear; forget your people and your father’s house; and the king will desire your beauty. Since he is your lord, bow to him; the people of Tyre will sue your favor with gifts, the richest of the people with all kinds of wealth.” (Psalms 45:9-13)This passage is in a messianic psalm and discusses the woman who will stand at the right hand of the Messiah. The woman is Mary and it says specifically that the people of faraway nations “will sue [her] favor with gifts.” This passage shows us that Mary can be prayed to, but it’s also significant because it is a prophecy that is only fulfilled in the Catholic Church. Protestant churches don’t even claim that there is a woman who all the nations seek for her favor, but the Bible says there would be, and she would stand at the right hand of the Messiah.5) “Grace to you and peace from him who is, and was, and is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne.” (Revelation 1:4)In this passage St. John invokes a blessing upon the churches in Asia. He did not only invoke grace from God, but from angels. An invocation is a form of prayer which calls down a blessing on someone. In this passage he calls it down from God and seven angels, which shows us a prayer to the angels.

scripturecatholic.com/saints.html

 

[Daniel_in_Iowa]

ANd what does this have to do with praying to entities other than Christ? Again, why bother with intermediaries, secondary sources if you have the real deal in Jesus Christ you can and should turn to again and again. I pray to him. Do you believe if I spend my who life praying only to him I am less of a Catholic, less of a Christian, and have made it more difficult for myself to make it to eternal salvation? It’s actually the opposite.

AJ

Seems to me that AJ is arguing as a Catholic against a doctrine that is a very simple, uncomplicated one for a thinking person. I am new to the Church, and only stumbled very slightly at this teaching for a brief time during my early catechesis. Methinks he is not only arguing the Protestant view (and with vigor!), but is actually sold on the Protestant view of this issue. If he is indeed a Catholic, he should revisit the basics.

My own prayers are directed to Jesus, and yet I have no problem understanding the urge to pray to saints and others who have a no-doubt closer proximity than I myself do.

Daniel

 

[Michele_Boyer]

Three things haven’t been mentioned.

1. Elizabeth set the precedent for “praying” to Mary, by acknowledging her sanctity when she said (the beginning of our Hail Mary) “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed is the fruit of your womb.”

Even most Protestants would agree that anything in scripture is worthy of being a prayer, and something to meditate upon. Mary is mentioned only a few times with such specificity and detail. That alone is significant. This is as Biblical as it gets. For us to acknowledge Mary in prayer is the best way we can emulate Elizabeth’s acknowledgement because Mary is not here physically, but she is in spirit. Elizabeth also stated that future generations would call Mary “Blessed.”

1. Jesus, Himself, said that wherever two or more are gathered in His name, there He will be in their midst. Many people are alone, or otherwise with no one to pray with. By praying “to” the saints, angels, or Mary in the name of Jesus we ask them to join us in prayer, or join our prayers to theirs and we are no longer praying alone. We are praying with people or angels we know to be in God’s presence.
2. To discount the propriety of praying “to” (I say “with”) the saints is to dismiss the authority of the Church, specifically the Pope, to bind on earth what will be bound in Heaven. If the Church teaches us to pray to or with the saints, we are being authorized to do that, per Jesus specific authority passed onto the Church and the apostles, and especially to Peter.

 

[chefpeter81]

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6

Why would you pray to anyone else? Why seek out an intermediary when Christ told us to go directly to him? Christ is enough. He’s all you need, not all this other background noise of saints and statues and angels.

AJ

Read Tobit 12:12, when angel raphael reveals his identity to tobit he reveals that it was he who presented his prayer to God.

 

[gntlmnr]

I personally pray most of the time to God the Father and to Jesus Christ directly (not that there is any difference), and there are many times when I am going through some really tough times in my life, I find myself asking Virgin Mary to look at me and remember me and pray for me. There is no confusion in my mind on who God is, who Jesus Christ is, and who Virgin Mary is. I think the real importance lies in knowing how to discern.

I think we’re making a big issue out of it all, when there should be no issue at all. Protestants like to go straight to Jesus. That’s fine. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. Catholics like to go through Virgin Mary or a Saint to reach Jesus Christ. I don’t find a problem with that at all either. Why, personally, I don’t find a problem going through Virgin Mary? Because this is what comes to my mind when I hear the argument between the Protestants and Catholics:

Luke (9:49 - 50) - 49.John answered, “Master, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he does not follow with us.” 50.But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him; for he that is not against you is for you.”

So I don’t think Jesus would forbid Virgin Mary and the Saints to pray on our behalf, because they’re definitely not against Him.

 

[donohueb]

When we pray the “Our Father”, we are not praying “My Father”. Our Father is plural as in all of us. “Give US OUR daily bread, and forgive US OUR trespasses”… etc. We are all praying for each other.

Asking Mary to pray for us in no way diminishes our prayers. In fact there would be an INCREASE in efficacy. Like when in court. Your barrister knows the correct way to put your case to the judge. The right language for a good outcome. If you spoke it would probably wreck it. Also like a mother talking to a father on your behalf. The mother knowing a sweet way to put something to your father and pleading on your behalf. The mother knows the father better than you. Mary would do the same for you.

Also 2 Thessalonians 3:1. St. Paul asks for others to “pray for us”. He and others spreading the gospel. Weight of numbers praying to God on your behalf. Got to be better than just one. There are other examples.

It may be presumptuous or arrogant to think that you can just pray directly to Jesus and “I don’t need anyone else to pray for me”. Jesus taught humility. It is a humble man that asks others to pray for him.

 

[SaintElmo]

Because Jesus gave us an example, he performed His first Miracle at His Mother’s request.

Please explain what you mean by this?

 

[Irish_Steve]

Please explain what you mean by this?

I believe he is referring to The Wedding in Cana when Jesus turned the water into wine at the request of Mary. They ran out of wine and Our Lady asked him to do it, he did not refuse her.

Here is an interesting snippet from an article I’ve read:

"John is careful to note that Jesus’ first miracle (at Cana) is done in response to Mary’s intercession ( John 2:1–11). Mary, the icon of the bride and the counterpoint to Jesus the groom, is exactly the importunate supplicant Jesus tells us he is looking for in the Parable of the Unjust Judge (Luke 18:1–8). She doesn’t take “no” for an answer, but first taps Jesus on the shoulder and says, “They have no wine” and, after a seeming rebuff, goes with perfect trust to the servants and tells them, “Do whatever he tells you.”

There is a strong tendency in Evangelical circles to read this story as yet another example of Jesus “rebuking” Mary. But the longer I contemplated it, the more problematic that way of seeing it became. For instance, if Mary is being “rebuked,” the question is, “Why?” For her “faithlessness?” That makes no sense. She obviously expects Jesus to be able to do something about the wine. But such an expectation is clearly an act of faith in him as Messiah since there’s no reason, humanly speaking, to think a poor carpenter would be able to do anything. So she’s obviously expecting something supernatural here.
At this point, many an Evangelical replies, “Yes, she had faith, of a sort. But it was a worldly faith. She wanted Jesus to perform wonders, but didn’t understand the depth of what his mission would ultimately mean. That’s why Jesus rebuked her with the words, ‘O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come’” (John 2:4).
But this makes no sense either. If Jesus is displeased with her allegedly worldly faith and her supposed hankering after mere publicity stunts, why does he grant her request? Everybody else who comes to him with worldly demands and requests for publicity stunts is invariably refused. Whether it’s Herod Antipas (Luke 23:8–9), or the man who wanted Jesus to adjudicate an inheritance dispute with his brother (Luke 12:13–21), or a mob who wanted to crown him king ( John 6:15), or Pharisees seeking a cool special effect from heaven (Matt. 16:1–4), or his own disciples wanting a dazzling display of divine artillery against the Samaritans (Luke 9:51–56), all such crude demands for worldly power and selfish stunts are flatly refused."

I am also coming to the realisation that we all should lean heavily on the VERY capable arms of the Angels, Saints and OUR LADY! They are much holier and closer to God than most likely any of us will ever be. Who better to have backing us?

God himself made Guardian angels for each and everyone of us.
‘Angel of God my guardian dear, to whom Gods love commits me here. Ever this day be at my side to Light and guard, to rule and guide. Amen’

Of course God wants us to pray for intercession. Just as we ask our friends to pray for us and we pray for them in our own prayers. I know my own ‘prayer’ list is it lengthy and ever growing haha.

God bless.

Steve

 

[casrim]

All I see in what you posted is a lame attempt to use some scripture verses to validate your position.

Jesus never taught praying to saints. The apostles never taught praying to Mary or saints. NOW, it seems to me that if praying to anyone except God should be done it would be recorded in the Bible and it isn’t.

Saints and Mary are dead but Jesus is alive.

 

[gntlmnr]

All I see in what you posted is a lame attempt to use some scripture verses to validate your position.

Jesus never taught praying to saints. The apostles never taught praying to Mary or saints. NOW, it seems to me that if praying to anyone except God should be done it would be recorded in the Bible and it isn’t.

Saints and Mary are dead but Jesus is alive.

Saints and Mary are NOT dead. Have you read the Transfiguration in the Bible?

Please read it: Matthew (17:1 -13)

And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain apart. 2. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light. 3. And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Eli’jah, talking with him. 4. And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is well that we are here; if you wish, I will make three booths here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli’jah.” * 5. He was still speaking, when behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, w with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” 6. When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces, and were filled with awe. 7. But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” 8. And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.9.And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of man is raised from the dead.” 10. And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Eli’jah must come?” 11. He replied, “Eli’jah does come, and he is to restore all things; 12. but I tell you that Eli’jah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands.” 13. Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

As far as we know, Moses is dead, but here we see that Jesus was transfigured when he was talking to Moses. Was Jesus talking with the dead?

 

[Rich]

So what is your problem with asking for the help of Mary, the apostles, the early Christian who the church sees as saints? Once again you have the mentality of a Protestant just me and god, direct line. But Jesus, set up ways to reach him. He set up the church, with priests, and bishops, and a pope. He did this for us and it’s a humble thing to say, hey I’m part of a team.

God did set up people in His body to help us all love Him first and each other second, but the First, Best, Closest gift to know and love Him was the gift of Himself living in us. Any time we bow our head and say Father we are in the throne room in the very presents of God, Jesus. We do not need anyone else to speak to our Father for us. His body (church) was left on earth for us to show the world the love of the Father by each of us loving one another.

 

[Irish_Steve]

All I see in what you posted is a lame attempt to use some scripture verses to validate your position.

Jesus never taught praying to saints. The apostles never taught praying to Mary or saints. NOW, it seems to me that if praying to anyone except God should be done it would be recorded in the Bible and it isn’t.

Saints and Mary are dead but Jesus is alive.

Were you speaking to me Casrim?

 

[dmar198]

All I see in what you posted is a lame attempt to use some scripture verses to validate your position.

Jesus never taught praying to saints. The apostles never taught praying to Mary or saints. NOW, it seems to me that if praying to anyone except God should be done it would be recorded in the Bible and it isn’t.

Saints and Mary are dead but Jesus is alive.

It seems to me that in order for you to not pray to the saints you have to avoid the Psalms, because Psalms 103:20-21 and Psalms 148:1-2 both tell the saints in heaven to join us in praising God. If we’re not supposed to pray to the saints, how come the Psalms do it?

We do not need anyone else to speak to our Father for us.

I think there is good evidence that we are supposed to have other people speak to the Father for us. For example, everytime we ask somebody to pray for us, we are asking them to speak to the Father for us, because that’s what prayer is: speaking to the Father to ask Him to help someone. (Well, some prayer is just prayers of praise, but plenty are prayers of intercession.) Don’t you think we are supposed to ask other people to pray for us? And don’t you think we can talk to the saints in heaven? If not, how do you interpret Psalms 103:20-21, Psalms 148:1-2, and Revelation 18:20?

 

[BarryI]

Because Jesus gave us an example, he performed His first Miracle at His Mother’s request.

So then, what you’re saying is that Jesus is a liar?? Why would He say the only way to the Father is through Him if it were not true?? Would He not of said it differently? By you saying it is just an example actually makes His statement false then. Which is it? Jesus came to reveal the truth , and if He revealed that statement , then it must be true right? Otherwise it is a lie.

 

[BarryI]

It seems to me that in order for you to not pray to the saints you have to avoid the Psalms, because Psalms 103:20-21 and Psalms 148:1-2 both tell the saints in heaven to join us in praising God. If we’re not supposed to pray to the saints, how come the Psalms do it? I think there is good evidence that we are supposed to have other people speak to the Father for us. For example, everytime we ask somebody to pray for us, we are asking them to speak to the Father for us, because that’s what prayer is: speaking to the Father to ask Him to help someone. (Well, some prayer is just prayers of praise, but plenty are prayers of intercession.) Don’t you think we are supposed to ask other people to pray for us? And don’t you think we can talk to the saints in heaven? If not, how do you interpret Psalms 103:20-21, Psalms 148:1-2, and Revelation 18:20?

Did Jesus not give the disciples the way to pray in the Semon in the Mount? He never said to close the door to your inner room and pray to a human, someone who died did He?

 

[BarryI]

Were you speaking to me Casrim?

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement.