Flavius Josephus About Jesus?

[Ben_Masada]

I personally had the peculiar experience of my father appearing in my room the night he died. His body was several kilometres away in the flat where he died. He started with an apology for his lifelong cruelty, we argued and conversed, and at the end he disappeared with one almighty, terrifying scream whilst trying to ward something off. As far as I’m concerned, there’s life after death, and judgment too.

Christ rose from the dead. Peter ran to the tomb and it was empty. The guards were like “dead men”, yet it was a capital offence to sleep on duty as a Roman guard. The women were met by either an angel or two angels (slight discrepancies between accounts are a sign of honest witnesses) who informed them He had risen.

You seem to put more faith in a gnostic gospel because it suits your purposes than the actual Gospels.

**Sorry for the death of your father, but to fashion one’s faith on the dream with the dead is too childish. Now, all of a sudden there is life after death. That’s amazing!

Jesus did not raise from the dead; he was raised from the tomb. He was not dead. There were no guards at the tomb, because the same gospel writer who said so, said that the women went to the tomb to anoint Jesus’ body. How could they anoint Jesus’ body if the guards were there to prevent the approach of any suspect? And how could they anoint Jesus’ body if the tombstone was sealed? If this makes sense to you, it’s because you are too naive.

No one could say what happened to Jesus because there was not even one eyewitness to the resurrection. Even the angel of Matthew could not be taken as an eyewitness because when he removed the stone, the tomb was empty. And this was at the end of that Sabbath, about 24 hours that Jesus had been put in there to rest. How do you explain the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40? It sounds like a joke.

I am talking about the actual gospels which you are unable to answer my questions.**

 

[exoflare]

What is the problem with using “odds”?

The problem is that using your very own “logic” your arguments are just like this:

exoflare: Hey I just got a royal flush playing poker just now!

BM: You’re lying.

exoflare: Why do you say that?

BM: Do you know what the ODDS are against getting a royal flush? they’re somewhere around 1 in 30,000. Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE that you got a royal flush just now and you must have made the whole thing up.

exoflare: That’s the most messed-up reasoning I’ve ever heard. But anyway there were 5 other guys playing at that table with me… you can ask one of them if you want, they saw it happen themselves.

BM: They’re lying too.

exoflare: Well it looks like you’ve covered all your bases then…

BM: Yes. Mine is an argument of LOGIC.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

**You paint too rose a picture of Christianity. I don’t think you are aware of Church History to talk about Christianity as if it has been a paragon of justice and charity. Read about the Crusades and you will wonder why the Church had to kill so many Jews during three centuries of persecutions. Read about the Inquisition and ask yourself why the Church had to burn so many Jews with its Christian “Autos-da-Fe?”
And then, religious pogroms and shutting Jews in ghethos to keep the “cursed” race ostracized from society? There has never been a religious organization more antisemitic than the Church. **

Ben, come on man. You´re talking about events that happen many and many years AFTER Jesus Christ overcame death on the cross. (lol, get it? He Overcame death…we both can agree on this statement. You believe it physically and I believe it spiritually) Its not fair to talk about the Church when it gained massive power just in time for evil men to misuse it.

I never said being a Christian makes you automatically Holy but I don´t feel like explaining myself because you know exactly where I am going with this. So please explain to me why would God allow Christianity to rise in the first place. What? a Man named Paul said Love each other because Jesus is God so a bunch of people leave their pagan and Jewish faith and get persecuted for it. 2000 years later that same religion is now the largest on this planet? Please explain, I need your opinion brother.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

**Sorry for the death of your father, but to fashion one’s faith on the dream with the dead is too childish. Now, all of a sudden there is life after death. That’s amazing!

Jesus did not raise from the dead; he was raised from the tomb. He was not dead. There were no guards at the tomb, because the same gospel writer who said so, said that the women went to the tomb to anoint Jesus’ body. How could they anoint Jesus’ body if the guards were there to prevent the approach of any suspect? And how could they anoint Jesus’ body if the tombstone was sealed? If this makes sense to you, it’s because you are too naive.

No one could say what happened to Jesus because there was not even one eyewitness to the resurrection. Even the angel of Matthew could not be taken as an eyewitness because when he removed the stone, the tomb was empty. And this was at the end of that Sabbath, about 24 hours that Jesus had been put in there to rest. How do you explain the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40? It sounds like a joke.

I am talking about the actual gospels which you are unable to answer my questions.**

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Bob_Crowley:
The business with my father wasn’t a dream, and I still remember the terrifying scream 30 years later. As it turned out his body wasn’t discovered for four days, as he died alone in his flat. Eventually the smell forced the bloke upstairs to ring the police, and so his body was discovered. My uncle, my mother’s brother, came to tell me. When he told me my father had been dead for four days before being found, the penny dropped, and I also still remember turning towards the bedroom and thinking, “What the hell was that the other night?!” I was an atheist at the time by the way.

But anyway don’t worry. You’ll be able to experience judgment for yourself first hand in due course.

As for the women going to the tomb to anoint the body, I think they’d have assumed either the guards would have been called away by that time, or would have opened the tomb for them, since there wasn’t much to fear from a man who’d been dead for a day and a half. Secondly being women, they were less likely to come under suspicion of dubious activity than male disciples. Either way they’d have gone anyway, out of a sense of duty and female emotion. What they didn’t expect was an empty tomb, comatose or missing guards, a large stone rolled back, and a confrontation with angels.

Christ rose from the dead. And as the Scriptures say, on the day of Judgement, “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord”.

Whether we want to or not. Then we’ll go one way or the other - to eternal life, or eternal damnation. I suspect my father chose the latter, going by the scream. Just as Adolf Hitler did, and quite possibly some members of the Inquisition.

“On the day of judgment” said Christ, “a man will account for every useless word.”

 

[krew07]

Anyone who has read Josephus can easily decifer it is a forgery,simply by the extremely flamboyant over-worded long winded writing style…paragraphs go on and on and on with great detail…yet here we have one of if not the shortest bluntest comments he ever decided to write…Besides,if you notice “they related”…really means it just heresay…

MOST IMPORTANTLY THE REAL EVIDENCE ,the obvious evidence is Philo of Alexandria who lived EXACTLY at the supposed time of Jesus(who,by the way always had mass crowds swarming around him…a little hard to ignore)…he has over 30 manuscripts 850,000 words,mentions plenty about local politics and religion…not a word about Jesus!..ZERO

ALSO IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE important obvious evidence of forgery is Father Origen , a 3rd century writer who spent his life debating pagan writer Celsus in defence of Christianity…he uses many sources,and quotes…HE QUOTES JOSEPHUS EXTENSIVELY, BUT ODDLY DOESN’T MENTION THE “GOLDEN PARAGRAPH”…NOT ONCE,in fact NO WRITER EVER before the 4th century mentions the obvious forgery…BECAUSE IT WAS NOT THERE TO BE MENTIONED

 

[w_stewart]

Absolutely not! If you did that we would not have suffered so much antisemitic persecutions throughout History.

What is the connection between anti-Semitic persecutions and the New Testament?

 

[Ben_Masada]

The problem is that using your very own “logic” your arguments are just like this:

exoflare: Hey I just got a royal flush playing poker just now!

BM: You’re lying.

exoflare: Why do you say that?

BM: Do you know what the ODDS are against getting a royal flush? they’re somewhere around 1 in 30,000. Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE that you got a royal flush just now and you must have made the whole thing up.

exoflare: That’s the most messed-up reasoning I’ve ever heard. But anyway there were 5 other guys playing at that table with me… you can ask one of them if you want, they saw it happen themselves.

BM: They’re lying too.

exoflare: Well it looks like you’ve covered all your bases then…

BM: Yes. Mine is an argument of LOGIC.

**I am glad I don’t know the ABC’s about playing cards. **

 

[Ben_Masada]

I never said being a Christian makes you automatically Holy but I don´t feel like explaining myself because you know exactly where I am going with this. So please explain to me why would God allow Christianity to rise in the first place. What? a Man named Paul said Love each other because Jesus is God so a bunch of people leave their pagan and Jewish faith and get persecuted for it. 2000 years later that same religion is now the largest on this planet? Please explain, I need your opinion brother.

**Yes, I’ll explain to you what you are asking. About the rise of Chritianity, God has nothing to do with it. If you don’t believe, explain to me why would God allow Islam to rise and beat Christianity in its growth?

Why a man named Paul said that Jesus is God? Because he was a Hellenistic Jew born in the Greek city of Tarsus and got used to Greek Mythology. That’s why he had no scrupples to say that Jesus was God.

And regarding “pagan Jewish faith,” as you charge above, you have just acknowledged that the faith of Jesus was Paganism. You might be right. The Jesus of the NT is indeed too pagan to be Jewish. Now, mind you that between the Monotheism of Judaism and the Polytheism of Christianity, I wonder which one is a pagan religion.

And for being Christianity the largest religion in the Planet, let me ask you a simple question. Do you know how many little stones are there in our planet? Millions, billions, thrillions, zillions. It’s impossible to count them. They represent Christians. Now, tell me, how many precious stones are there in our Planet? Perhaps about 15 millions. They represent the Jews. Do you understand now why?**

 

[Ben_Masada]

The business with my father wasn’t a dream, and I still remember the terrifying scream 30 years later. As it turned out his body wasn’t discovered for four days, as he died alone in his flat. Eventually the smell forced the bloke upstairs to ring the police, and so his body was discovered. My uncle, my mother’s brother, came to tell me. When he told me my father had been dead for four days before being found, the penny dropped, and I also still remember turning towards the bedroom and thinking, “What the hell was that the other night?!” I was an atheist at the time by the way.

But anyway don’t worry. You’ll be able to experience judgment for yourself first hand in due course.

As for the women going to the tomb to anoint the body, I think they’d have assumed either the guards would have been called away by that time, or would have opened the tomb for them, since there wasn’t much to fear from a man who’d been dead for a day and a half. Secondly being women, they were less likely to come under suspicion of dubious activity than male disciples. Either way they’d have gone anyway, out of a sense of duty and female emotion. What they didn’t expect was an empty tomb, comatose or missing guards, a large stone rolled back, and a confrontation with angels.

Christ rose from the dead. And as the Scriptures say, on the day of Judgement, “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord”.

Whether we want to or not. Then we’ll go one way or the other - to eternal life, or eternal damnation. I suspect my father chose the latter, going by the scream. Just as Adolf Hitler did, and quite possibly some members of the Inquisition.

“On the day of judgment” said Christ, “a man will account for every useless word.”

**First, why would every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, when Jesus himself confessed that God is One and the Only Lord? (Mark 12:29)

Second, there is no such a thing as eternal about mortals. Eternity only God has it. The rest of us who have been born will all eventually die.

Third, regarding Jesus’ resurrection there was no eyewitness to it. Even the angel of Matthew, when he removed the stone and sat upon it, the tomb was already empty. Someone had raised Jesus from that tomb long before him.

Last, regarding the women not being suspictious, think again. According to John 20:15, when Mary Magdalene went to the tomb, her intentions were to take Jesus to herself. She asked the Gardener, “Where did you put him so that I can take him away?”**

 

[Ben_Masada]

Anyone who has read Josephus can easily decifer it is a forgery,simply by the extremely flamboyant over-worded long winded writing style…paragraphs go on and on and on with great detail…yet here we have one of if not the shortest bluntest comments he ever decided to write…Besides,if you notice “they related”…really means it just heresay…

MOST IMPORTANTLY THE REAL EVIDENCE ,the obvious evidence is Philo of Alexandria who lived EXACTLY at the supposed time of Jesus(who,by the way always had mass crowds swarming around him…a little hard to ignore)…he has over 30 manuscripts 850,000 words,mentions plenty about local politics and religion…not a word about Jesus!..ZERO

ALSO IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE important obvious evidence of forgery is Father Origen , a 3rd century writer who spent his life debating pagan writer Celsus in defence of Christianity…he uses many sources,and quotes…HE QUOTES JOSEPHUS EXTENSIVELY, BUT ODDLY DOESN’T MENTION THE “GOLDEN PARAGRAPH”…NOT ONCE,in fact NO WRITER EVER before the 4th century mentions the obvious forgery…BECAUSE IT WAS NOT THERE TO BE MENTIONED

Hi crew07, I agree with you 100 percent. A great percentage of the NT is made out of interpolations by the Church, when the Fathers of the Church needed a “Carta Magna” to document the Church. And a strategic place was to make up something from Josephus given his influence and acceptance by the high Roman elite.

 

[Ben_Masada]

What is the connection between anti-Semitic persecutions and the New Testament?

The NT false accusation that the Jews crucified Jesus.
(Acts 2:36) The Pauline struggle at his policy of Replacement Theology. (Gal. 4:21-31) And a lot so forth.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

**Yes, I’ll explain to you what you are asking. About the rise of Chritianity, God has nothing to do with it. If you don’t believe, explain to me why would God allow Islam to rise and beat Christianity in its growth? **

Ben my Jewish brother,I already explained myself. God allowed Islam because of its evil agenda. He gave premision to allow slam under the circumstances it did because Muslims really wanted to persecuted anybody in their path who didn’t decide to convert. Any rational human being can see that evil in the ROOTS of Islam. God doesn’t get prevent evil from entering, He battles it with His Army. But what about Christianity? Would God really allow innocent human beings believe Jesus is Pure Love so its worthy to get burned for Him? Why? Why such a deception. It makes no sense at all.

Why do people build Hospitals, Shelters, Schools all in the name of Jesus Christ? Is it maybe because they truly Love Him? Or they think they love Him because a man named Paul ordered us to?

Why are so many people Muslims in countries like Turkey, Moroco, Saudi Arabia, Iraq?
Because they have no choice. Do you see the difference?

This is why Catholicism is the Truth, because God fulfilled His prophecies with His Only Begotten Son Our Lord Jesus Christ.

[BAnd regarding “pagan Jewish faith,” as you charge above, you have just acknowledged that the faith of Jesus was Paganism. You might be right. The Jesus of the NT is indeed too pagan to be Jewish. Now, mind you that between the Monotheism of Judaism and the Polytheism of Christianity, I wonder which one is a pagan religion.**

sigh No I didn’t Ben, I meant Pagans and Jews converted to Catholicism.

[BAnd for being Christianity the largest religion in the Planet, let me ask you a simple question. Do you know how many little stones are there in our planet? Millions, billions, thrillions, zillions. It’s impossible to count them. They represent Christians. Now, tell me, how many precious stones are there in our Planet? Perhaps about 15 millions. They represent the Jews. Do you understand now why?**

Actually there is only 1 Rock on our planet. This Rock is Jesus Christ, the King of Kings!

 

[w_stewart]

The NT false accusation that the Jews crucified Jesus.
(Acts 2:36) The Pauline struggle at his policy of Replacement Theology. (Gal. 4:21-31) And a lot so forth.

So stating a fact constitutes anti-Semitism?

What if I say there are criminals among the Jews, would you loathe me for being anti-Semitic?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

**My pleasure! The catastrophe of the Flood had just ended, and God was establishing the Noahite covenant with all Mankind through Noah. That’s in Genesis 8:21. In verse 22, God connects His promise to the stability of the natural laws. **

**Jeremiah must have read that passage of Genesis and got impressed. Later, perhaps as a result of a prophetical vision, he wrote that if Israel ever ceases as a People before the Lord forever, the natural laws will go perserk. (Jer. 31:35,36) **

**We all know that if the natural laws cease to function properly, the result will be universal catastrophes, not only of the size of the Flood but perhaps even of the size that made the dinosaurs extinct. **

***Slightly ***off the topic:​

The trouble with the Flood is that it probably killed fewer people than are often drowned in some areas - such as the Indian sub-continent and its environs - these days. Which makes the idea behind the rainbow rather less compelling.

God has often made promises - but they have been broken time and again. Which discourages taking Jer. 31.35,36 at face value. The covenant with David was unconditional - until it ended with the destruction of Temple, city, & Monarchy. The God of Israel is no more dependable than any other - why not worship a different one ?

We Return You To Your Advertised Programming

 

[exoflare]

**I am glad I don’t know the ABC’s about playing cards. **

If you’re going to reply, at least make some attempt at defending your implication that “some” means “all”, and that “not likely” is the same as “impossible”. Changing the subject won’t make the gaping holes in your argument any less apparent.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Ben my Jewish brother,I already explained myself. God allowed Islam because of its evil agenda. He gave premision to allow slam under the circumstances it did because Muslims really wanted to persecuted anybody in their path who didn’t decide to convert. Any rational human being can see that evil in the ROOTS of Islam. God doesn’t get prevent evil from entering, He battles it with His Army.

God had nothing to do with the rise of Islam. It is all man’s doing. We are allowed anything we want to do, as long as we are aware of the consequences.

But what about Christianity? Would God really allow innocent human beings believe Jesus is Pure Love so its worthy to get burned for Him? Why? Why such a deception. It makes no sense at all.

The same as above. It’s all man’s doing. Then, as faith settles, fundamentalism takes place.

Why do people build Hospitals, Shelters, Schools all in the name of Jesus Christ? Is it maybe because they truly Love Him? Or they think they love Him because a man named Paul ordered us to?

A thing has nothing to do with the other. Jews also build many hospitals; and none in the name of Jesus.

Why are so many people Muslims in countries like Turkey, Moroco, Saudi Arabia, Iraq?
Because they have no choice. Do you see the difference?

So, you have answered your own question about Christianity.

This is why Catholicism is the Truth, because God fulfilled His prophecies with His Only Begotten Son Our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Truth has nothing to do with Greek Mythology. The only reference to a Son of God in the Scriptures is in Exodus 4:22,23. “Israel is My son…” The test to prove where the Truth is, is in Isaiah 8:20. “To the Law and the Testimony; if they don’t speak according to this pattern, it’s because there is no light in them.” Does Catholicism speak according to the Law and the Testimony? I doubt it. So, the Truth is not in the Church. Regarding fulfillment of prophecies in Jesus, only through assumptions. And assumptions butter no bread.

Actually there is only 1 Rock on our planet. This Rock is Jesus Christ, the King of Kings!

Now, pick up the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle and show me where it is written that “This Rock is Jesus Christ” and you have made a Catholic out of this Jew. Can you see what I mean by assumptions?

 

[Ben_Masada]

So stating a fact constitutes anti-Semitism?

What if I say there are criminals among the Jews, would you loathe me for being anti-Semitic?

No for the second question; but for the first question, a false fact is antisemitism. The late Pope John 23rd asked publicly from the Jewish People to forgive Christianigy for that 2000 years old false fact. Mind you, he said “to forgive Christianity” and not the gospel writers. It could mean a later Church interpolation.

 

[Ben_Masada]

***Slightly ***off the topic:​

The trouble with the Flood is that it probably killed fewer people than are often drowned in some areas - such as the Indian sub-continent and its environs - these days. Which makes the idea behind the rainbow rather less compelling.

God has often made promises - but they have been broken time and again. Which discourages taking Jer. 31.35,36 at face value. The covenant with David was unconditional - until it ended with the destruction of Temple, city, & Monarchy. The God of Israel is no more dependable than any other - why not worship a different one ?

We Return You To Your Advertised Programming

**Is there any other? God is One and the Only Lord. That’s what Jesus himself said in Mark 12:29.

It doesn’t matter if the Biblical Flood even happened at all. It could have been only a background allegory to illustrate the truth of collective salvation.**

 

[w_stewart]

No for the second question; but for the first question, a false fact is antisemitism. The late Pope John 23rd asked publicly from the Jewish People to forgive Christianigy for that 2000 years old false fact. Mind you, he said “to forgive Christianity” and not the gospel writers. It could mean a later Church interpolation.

Were you referring to the “perfidious Jews” in the old Good Friday liturgy?