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SpaceGirl
Guest
Can someone tell me the flaws in Islam. Please note I am looking for facts and not opinions so can you please list your sources.
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Valke2
Guest
They aren’t jews. But this is a flaw I have found many religions share.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
From a Christian point of view, I would say there are two fundamental flaws:
- Islamic scripture denies Christ as the Son of God (see Qur’an 5:17)
- Islamic scripture denies His crucifixion (see Qur’an 4:157)
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Gnosis
Guest
Hahahaha,
that was good, and also expresses a good point. As long as you’re going to judge one religion by the criteria of your own faith what else can you say other than “its not it”?
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Catholig
Guest
Yes, I’ve been thinking about this. I remember a while back that a muslim was defending those islamic laws which prohibit the conversion of muslims to other faiths, because according to him Islam is the fulfillment of Christianity, and to convert a muslim would be to be bringing him to a lower step on the ladder. The only problem with this, and the Qu’ran in my view is that Islam was founded c. 600 AD by an Arab, and had no real ties to either Christianity or Judaism. Yes the Qu’ran quotes Moses, and speaks of Jesus, but it is an arabian religion, not a jewish/hebrew one.
In Christianity we have distinct ties Judaism, Abraham, & Moses, we believe that Christ came, but he was born as a Jew and that his disciples were Jews. That he came to guide the Jews. In Islam one believes that god cared for the Jews, but forsook them randomly without cause, and without attempting to guide them to Islam. That he didn’t even tell them. It wasn’t as if Muhammed was a Jew.
Also another note is the way I understand it early christianity even saw itself as a movement within Judaism (for instance the disciples had to stay in Jerusalem 5 years, right?) - can Islam claim as much?
Catholig
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Dranu
Guest
They also deny original sin (big one I feel). Although I’m not sure how profoundly this is the case, as since they have no one church, you have some of that self-interpretation, though less so than protestantism (probably because of the way the Qur’an is written, compared to the Divine Word of God).
To me, denying original sin seems to imply God is guilty of evil. They get off fine when someone chooses evil, but when they get into children or babies, their logic seems to falter (that is if to assume God is all-merciful or all-loving) as to them they are born pure and in harmony with God (much like Adam and Eve before the fall), but the young do suffer injustly sometimes in this world, and since they do, to claim they are also born **inherintly good and in harmony **with God seems to suggest a lack of mercy or love from God. With us, however, with the removal of harmony and perfection by the fall of man, God is not the author or consentor of any evil, as all is a result of satan and man.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, I’m still a Catechumen, but wasn’t Christ born without original sin? If so, would’nt it imply God would never let any man who is in **perfect harmony **with Him come to any harm, unless they allowed themselves to suffer for righteousness like our Lord did?
)
Anyhow, Islam doesn’t seem to have a logical answer to evil, without disputing God’s mercy or love in my experience, but perhaps I haven’t spoken to enough Muslims.
God Bless
To me, denying original sin seems to imply God is guilty of evil. They get off fine when someone chooses evil, but when they get into children or babies, their logic seems to falter (that is if to assume God is all-merciful or all-loving) as to them they are born pure and in harmony with God (much like Adam and Eve before the fall), but the young do suffer injustly sometimes in this world, and since they do, to claim they are also born **inherintly good and in harmony **with God seems to suggest a lack of mercy or love from God. With us, however, with the removal of harmony and perfection by the fall of man, God is not the author or consentor of any evil, as all is a result of satan and man.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, I’m still a Catechumen, but wasn’t Christ born without original sin? If so, would’nt it imply God would never let any man who is in **perfect harmony **with Him come to any harm, unless they allowed themselves to suffer for righteousness like our Lord did?
(take what I said with a grain of salt, as I am a bit new to some concepts of the Holy Church, and do not want to spread any heresy
)Anyhow, Islam doesn’t seem to have a logical answer to evil, without disputing God’s mercy or love in my experience, but perhaps I haven’t spoken to enough Muslims.
God Bless
J
joeganshert
Guest
Shouldn’t a martyr die for his love of God, and not his want of 72 virgins ( I don’t know the actual number).
Mohamed only had a few close followers (who never saw the angel Gabriele) who then passed it on. There was never any mass miracles, or 3,000 people seeing the resurrected Jesus ( I think that’s the right number).
Islam was spread with military power, not love as in Christianity (when have you heard of the early Church forcefully converting non-believers? Truly Christianity was spread on the blood of its Martyrs, whereas Islam was spread on the blood of both sides)
I was seriously considering converting to Islam for a while, but I realized that Islam was not whole. I am islamic in the fact that I “submit to the will of God”, but I do not believe that Islam is where to find the Truth.
Mohamed only had a few close followers (who never saw the angel Gabriele) who then passed it on. There was never any mass miracles, or 3,000 people seeing the resurrected Jesus ( I think that’s the right number).
Islam was spread with military power, not love as in Christianity (when have you heard of the early Church forcefully converting non-believers? Truly Christianity was spread on the blood of its Martyrs, whereas Islam was spread on the blood of both sides)
I was seriously considering converting to Islam for a while, but I realized that Islam was not whole. I am islamic in the fact that I “submit to the will of God”, but I do not believe that Islam is where to find the Truth.
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FTS
Guest
Here is a point you may or may not have heard discussed before. Besides many theological and historical reasons, one I find very interesting is that Islam is proven incorrect by their view of Jesus. Looking at all that Jesus did and said, he was either a self-righteous and evil liar, a crazy and nutty lunatic, or exactly who he claimed to be, the Lord and Savior, having equality with God the Father. The references Jesus made pointing to His divinity are clear from Sacred Scripture. He said in John 8:58 that “before Abraham was, I AM.” He invoked and applied to himself the very personal name of God (Exodus 3:14). Since the Jews knew exactly what He was stating about Himself, they picked up stones and tried to stone him as a penalty for blasphemy. Along with the Gospel of John and Letter to the Philippians making statements showing the divinity of Christ, the Book of Revelation also has a resounding statement. Revelation 1:8 proclaims, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, the one who is and who was and who is to come, the almighty." Later in Revelation, there is a clear-cut reference to Christ being the one speaking, because a few lines after the next quotation I will point out begins with “I Jesus” and it goes on to other statements from the previous quotations. The quotation before this, showing it is from the same author who says “I Jesus”, in Revelation 22:12-13, states “Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” And who is referred to when saying a paraphrasing of that very statement earlier in Revelation 1:8? The Lord God is. Clearly, the New Testament, and of specific importance the Gospel of John quoting Christ’s very words, expresses the theological truth of the divinity of Jesus Christ. Jesus is God. And according to all He said and did, there is no other reasonable statement concerning Jesus other than saying that He is either Liar, Lunatic, or Lord. As the Muslims express their belief in Jesus as a good and holy Prophet, and not as a liar, lunatic, or Lord, their beliefs are exposed as logically unreasonable.
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Khalfan
Guest
I am muslim. Can I join you?
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Catholig
Guest
Are you new? If so welcome!
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Valke2
Guest
If it cannot make such a claim, how does this constitute a flaw? And why can’t it make claims (as it does) that it has ties to Abraham?
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Montalban
Guest
It’s to suggest that God, who promised the Messiah to the people of Israel/Jews/chosen people, changed his mind and gave the ‘Messiah’ to the Moslems… as Moslems see Muhammed as the fulfillment of God’s promises - even suggesting that ‘the helper’ in the NT points to him.
Why can’t anyone?
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Montalban
Guest
Am I falling apart?
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Mo19
Guest
History makes it clear theat, the legend of fanatical Muslims forcing conversion at the point of the sword is the most absurd myth ever to be believed. Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’ which mean peace. Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is accuired by submitting one’s will to the supreme creator, Allah ( Which mean the god in arabic).
Furthermore muslims ruled Spain for over 800 years and did not use the sword to force people to convert. Later on you will find that the Christians, yes Christian Crusaders came and drove out the muslims. There was not a single muslim left in Spain that could openly give the adaan, the call to prayer.
India, one of the world’s biggest countries, was ruled by muslims for over 1000 years. If Islam used force how come 80% is non muslim and only 205 are followers of Islam.
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sedonaman
Guest
If you are really interested in an objective, dispassionate look at Islam, see “Evidentiary Religions – Islam Introduction” biblestudying.net/islam1.html. It is a long analysis, but you can get the thesis by skipping over the numerous references, and then go back and review them.
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xixxvmcm85
Guest
"Mo19:
What complete horse ****.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_conquest_of_Hispania
fordham.edu/halsall/source/conqSpain.html
jstor.org/pss/4466922
jis.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/1/1/164
I’m going to give you the same advice that I give my fellow Catholics who try to repaint every Crusade and every Inquisition in a happy-go-lucky hue: Learn history from real historians and not from apologists with a vested interest in revising it.
So? Pointing to what Islam might mean doesn’t tell us whether Muslim invaders lived up to their name.
I really don’t like swearing, but sometimes you just run across something so patently absurd, that the occasion certainly warrants its use.
What complete horse ****.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_conquest_of_Hispania
fordham.edu/halsall/source/conqSpain.html
jstor.org/pss/4466922
jis.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/1/1/164
I’m going to give you the same advice that I give my fellow Catholics who try to repaint every Crusade and every Inquisition in a happy-go-lucky hue: Learn history from real historians and not from apologists with a vested interest in revising it.
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Mo19
Guest
History makes it clear theat, the legend of fanatical Muslims forcing conversion at the point of the sword is the most absurd myth ever to be believed. Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’ which mean peace. Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is accuired by submitting one’s will to the supreme creator, Allah ( Which mean the god in arabic).
Furthermore muslims ruled Spain for over 800 years and did not use the sword to force people to convert. Later on you will find that the Christians, yes Christian Crusaders came and drove out the muslims. There was not a single muslim left in Spain that could openly give the adaan, the call to prayer.
India, one of the world’s biggest countries, was ruled by muslims for over 1000 years. 80% of the population is non-muslim and only 20% are followers of Islam, if Islam used force to convert the people their would not be a single non-muslim.
Furthermore muslims ruled Spain for over 800 years and did not use the sword to force people to convert. Later on you will find that the Christians, yes Christian Crusaders came and drove out the muslims. There was not a single muslim left in Spain that could openly give the adaan, the call to prayer.
India, one of the world’s biggest countries, was ruled by muslims for over 1000 years. 80% of the population is non-muslim and only 20% are followers of Islam, if Islam used force to convert the people their would not be a single non-muslim.
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jakasaki
Guest
:yawn:
hmmmmm… 2 identical posts… hmmmmm… :tsktsk:
Right away. I for one will not take you seriously and consider you a troll!
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xixxvmcm85
Guest
Dude! I just gave you four credible, secular sources refuting what you said in the first post. You think that by repeating yourself I might forget?
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abucs
Guest
Hi Mo,
could you give me your thinking on how Muslims came to control Spain in the first place ?
And also how they came to control previously Christian North Africa and Byzantia (Turkey) as well. And how they came to dominate a non Muslim India.
Could you also give me your account of how you think Muslims came to dominate the pre-existing native Christian and Jewish communities of the Arabian Gulf and Holy Lands.
Thanks.
P.S. There are many internet sites which try to critique Islam. I’m not sure if it helps to do that on the Catholic forum as it is likely to upset Muslims with a genuine interest in Christianity.
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