Flirting, Thoughts, Lust, and Sin

[Saber_Lily]

To start off, I am a college-aged woman. I am modest, and am deeply affected by matters of my Catholic faith - especially related to morality.

I have never had a “boyfriend” (or really had an interest in), so I don’t have experience in dealing with such things. I am an introverted person, and I enjoy spending time alone. I surprised myself when I started feeling a personal interest in wanting to talk to people and establish more friendships. Now, I have always had friends, but I like to keep them few. And I like it that way. So, you can imagine my surprise at myself, when I attended a club at my university for want of making friends! To be specific, it is the anime (Japanese animation) club. Anime is a very, very intense interest of mine, and I really wanted to talk to others about it.
And I have been open to the idea (and want to pursue that idea - which is new to me) of meeting a boy and having a pure relationship. Now, again, I want to establish that I am a modest Catholic. I feel that my sense of sin is very deep. It may (or may not) be relevant to state that, in the past years, I have struggled with very strong religious scrupulosity. I have seen therapists and am on medications for OCD symptoms.
At this point in my life, though, the pull of scrupulosity is so much less - I can’t stress that enough. So I see it as less of an “excuse” - and I hope you won’t see it that way either.

I meet a lot of people at this club - which I am happy about! I find it easier to start conversations with these people, since we all have a common interest. I find the interaction fun, especially since I can talk about such a specialized topic (anime) to these people, which I don’t often get to talk about with most people in my life.

Since I am open to and actually have a personal interest in pursuing a pure relationship, this is where my question will go.
I talked to lots of people at the last club meeting, and really enjoyed myself. However, I felt myself developing feelings of attraction toward a person. He approached me, since he noticed one of our specific common interests, and sat next to me for the rest of the meeting. I was happy to have someone to talk to, since he showed a social interest in me. As the meeting went on, I felt myself experiencing early feelings of attraction to this person. As a modest woman who doesn’t usually pursue such feelings, I actually felt excited and happy about the situation.
I decided I would try something that I never strongly pursued before. I tried showing him my early interest. Not intensely, and not lewdly. I kind of sat closer to him. We were sitting in an auditorium on separated chairs, so I wanted to arrange my body language in a way that wasn’t closed off and unapproachable (which I often, even unconsciously, do). Meaning, I didn’t want to sit on the other end of the chair and crumple myself up to stay far away. Again, this is an early meeting, so there wasn’t much mutual exchange on /that/ level.

However, and I am so ashamed…But Jesus knows that we, as humans, struggle with this…I found my mind having thoughts of a sexual - lustful - nature. Never would I ever pursue or act out anything on that level. It is just simply something I would never do - and that is in all honesty. I am so modest in regard to these things, as a Catholic should be, and I see the purpose of things such as dating to, ultimately, be marriage. Not fornication or impurity, but commitment and devotion. I, myself, do not desire anything other than that in terms of relationships. **I am such a firm believer in purity. **

But I fear that my bit of “flirting” (which, to some people, may be barely even that…but I know it was) may have been motivated on impure levels. I found my thoughts getting lustful toward this person. I didn’t make any lewd motions toward him or anything on such a level, but (this is so shameful), I was wearing a short-sleeved shirt I arranged my arms in a manner that I hoped he would look at them…
I am an artist, and am captivated by the beauty of the human form. I am also naturally attracted to the angular masculine form. So I figure that males, subsequently, are attracted to the softness of the female form. And I wanted to show him that. With the desire to attract.

Fellow Catholics, how does this sound to you, taking my post into account? I deeply do not want to be in a state of mortal sin, and am so perturbed.
Advice on immorality of such things as “flirting”, lustful thoughts, or desiring actions are appreciated.
Thank you.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I met my wife at an anime club meeting at my college. I saw her the first week, asked her out the second. The rest is history ^^

Just having the thoughts is not a sin. It’s the decision to engage in the thoughts, or even worse, the actions that may develop from them that is the sin. It is important to feel attracted to the person you want to go out with, so don’t feel bad about that.

You are devoted to purity, and you can have a pure relationship. You just have to make sure the other person understands that from the start, otherwise it may cause problems. I say go for it, just remember that you are Catholic and your duty to God comes before all else.

As for flirting, you’re not currently in a relationship, so there’s nothing wrong with it. Just make sure you don’t give off the wrong impression of being “loose.” My wife and I flirted by chasing each other around a room for soda (I kidnapped the soda bottle, she made chase); it was a great initial way to bond, and told us that we were similar in nature.

It does sound like you’re being scrupulous; I wouldn’t worry too much. Enjoy yourself, just always remember your faith!

 

[MidnightSun12]

Saber_Lily, I think the key to remember here is that if you are called to marriage, God has already chosen your spouse for you. You have absolutely no need to “attract” or purposely alter your appearance or behavior to find your future spouse (just be yourself!). Remember, the only two things that we have to worry in this life is loving God with our whole heart and loving our neighbour by extension. God will take care of everything else (including taking care of that whole vocation thing! ).

As for whether or not you have committed sin in your thoughts/actions when you were with this man, I am not going to answer that as I also struggle with scrupolisity. This might be something you ought to run past your regular confessor.

God bless!

 

[Saber_Lily]

Saber_Lily, I think the key to remember here is that if you are called to marriage, God has already chosen your spouse for you. You have absolutely no need to “attract” or purposely alter your appearance or behavior to find your future spouse (just be yourself!).

This really resonated with me. Thanks for bringing a bit of solace to my mind (and since you write that you also struggle with scrupulosity, you know how important attaining a peaceful mind is).

I’m really going to take this into account. I’m still on edge about committing some sort of grave sin, but I really appreciate this piece of advice.

EDIT: Just wanted to say this…Almost as soon as I woke up this morning, I was grappling with feelings of guilt over what I did. I repeatedly asked Jesus for forgiveness and, throughout the day, read/lurked many threads on this kind of topic. I finally decided to create an account here so that I could post about this. And I’m glad I did, since because I struggle spiritually, I often have trouble really “hearing” God in my heart. Sometimes I need to hear it from someone, and I feel like your comment was something that God wanted me to hear today. Thank you.

 

[MidnightSun12]

This really resonated with me. Thanks for bringing a bit of solace to my mind (and since you write that you also struggle with scrupulosity, you know how important attaining a peaceful mind is).

I’m really going to take this into account. I’m still on edge about committing some sort of grave sin, but I really appreciate this piece of advice.

EDIT: Just wanted to say this…Almost as soon as I woke up this morning, I was grappling with feelings of guilt over what I did. I repeatedly asked Jesus for forgiveness and, throughout the day, read/lurked many threads on this kind of topic. I finally decided to create an account here so that I could post about this. And I’m glad I did, since because I struggle spiritually, I often have trouble really “hearing” God in my heart. Sometimes I need to hear it from someone, and I feel like your comment was something that God wanted me to hear today. Thank you.

It made my day better knowing that I could help!

Thank you.

 

[Inwe86]

Unwanted sexual thoughts are not sins. I struggle with scrupulosity too, and have much trouble in this area. It’s so much easier for me to look at things objectively when I am speaking to someone else. Thoughts often come out of nowhere, particularly if one is struggling hard to avoid them.

While there’s nothing wrong with showing you’re attracted, I agree that you don’t need to alter anything to make someone attracted to you. Don’t ever feel like you need to show off something to get someone’s attention. Let your true self shine through instead

 

[jimmy]

Saber_Lily, I think the key to remember here is that if you are called to marriage, God has already chosen your spouse for you. You have absolutely no need to “attract” or purposely alter your appearance or behavior to find your future spouse (just be yourself!)

And of course the one God has already chosen for her never has to ask her out either. After all, God has chosen him for her. They will just magically be married without either of them putting any effort into it.

To the OP, it isn’t a sin to flirt with someone. That is how people end up in a relationship. Be yourself, but don’t listen to what Midnight Sun says, because that won’t get you anywhere. If you like a guy then talk to him and show him that you are interested. Don’t be afraid to flirt. If you give off a disinterested feel, chances are he won’t ask you out.

 

[underacloud]

And of course the one God has already chosen for her never has to ask her out either. After all, God has chosen him for her. They will just magically be married without either of them putting any effort into it.

To the OP, it isn’t a sin to flirt with someone. That is how people end up in a relationship. Be yourself, but don’t listen to what Midnight Sun says, because that won’t get you anywhere. If you like a guy then talk to him and show him that you are interested. Don’t be afraid to flirt. If you give off a disinterested feel, chances are he won’t ask you out.

I tend to agree.

God may have plans for us, but we need to cooperate with His plans. Sitting back and waiting for God to send prince/princess charming into our lives isn’t the way to go about discerning a vocation to marriage.

I met my wife (to be) at a church function, at a parish I hadn’t attended previously. I was very taken with her and decided to go to mass at that parish for a while to get to know her better…this was a big deal for me because I was very shy at the time. The first half a dozen masses I attended, she wasn’t there and I wondered if I would see her again. I did see her again, by persisting with my plan, found the nerve to talk to her, and things went from there. The point is that I had to make the effort, to push myself, to attempt to flirt, etc. If I waited back and assumed God would bring her to my front door one day, I may well be single still.

Think of it this way - we ask God to “give us our daily bread” and then we go off to work. We don’t wait at home for a magical bread delivery. Similarly, finding our future spouse may require some effort on our part, to cooperate with God’s plans.

 

[MidnightSun12]

God may have plans for us, but we need to cooperate with His plans. Sitting back and waiting for God to send prince/princess charming into our lives isn’t the way to go about discerning a vocation to marriage.

I have to speak up about this, as I feel that the point that I am trying to convey has been distorted.

I am not suggesting that the OP ought to sit at home widdling away while she waits for a spouse to show up at her door. What I am suggesting is that instead of specifically trying to “find” a spouse, that she should make the focus of her life be loving God with her whole heart and loving her neighbour by extension. This is no small matter and I can guarantee that no person who is trying to follow these commandments is going to have time to sit back and wait for a spouse. Faith without works is dead, and any Catholic who is trying to love God with his/her whole heart in today’s society is going to be very active in the community spreading the faith, helping the poor, fighting for the rights of the unborn, etc… The irony is that by doing these things, you will actually become more attractive to members of the opposite sex then if you were specifically searching them out for courtship. People are naturally attracted to those who are well-adjusted and have no inordinate need for a significant other (conversely, neediness and clinginess are extremely unnattractive qualities that drives people away).

As far as flirting and body language goes, these things will happen naturally when there’s chemistry and when God brings together two people who He wishes to be together (there’s absolutely no need to spend time thinking about how to flirt). There’s a whole industry out there making millions off of men/women who are trying to figure out the “perfect” lines to say on a date, the proper way to sit, the “right” conversation topics and all of these things are Satan’s empty promises. It’s our secular humanist society that is telling people that they need to be in control of every last detail of their lives… If Christ actually wanted us to worry about all of these things then there would be 600,000 commandments instead of just 2!

To the OP, here are a couple of posts and quotes that show just how truly God brings spouses together on His own time (it really is quite beautiful ):

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9613197&postcount=14

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9616767&postcount=16
Proverbs 19:14:

House and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the Lord

Ecclesiasticus 26:1-4:

A good wife is a good portion; she shall be given in the portion of them that fear God, to a man for his good deeds. Rich or poor, if his heart is good, his countenance shall be cheerful at all times

Venerable Louis De Pointe:

God is not only the author of matrimony, but He brings to that state, by a special providence, those who He wishes to be in it.

God bless!

 

[Aquinas_Jr]

Jesus says if you look at someone in a lustfully reductive way, you have already committed adultery in your heart. For the pharisees were only concerned with outward actions, but Jesus with the heart. Therefore, you know in your own heart whether you sinned. If you did, go to confession. if not, why are you on here?

 

[jimmy]

I have to speak up about this, as I feel that the point that I am trying to convey has been distorted.

I am not suggesting that the OP ought to sit at home widdling away while she waits for a spouse to show up at her door. What I am suggesting is that instead of specifically trying to “find” a spouse, that she should make the focus of her life be loving God with her whole heart and loving her neighbour by extension. This is no small matter and I can guarantee that no person who is trying to follow these commandments is going to have time to sit back and wait for a spouse. Faith without works is dead, and any Catholic who is trying to love God with his/her whole heart in today’s society is going to be very active in the community spreading the faith, helping the poor, fighting for the rights of the unborn, etc… The irony is that by doing these things, you will actually become more attractive to members of the opposite sex then if you were specifically searching them out for courtship. People are naturally attracted to those who are well-adjusted and have no inordinate need for a significant other (conversely, neediness and clinginess are extremely unnattractive qualities that drives people away).

As far as flirting and body language goes, these things will happen naturally when there’s chemistry and when God brings together two people who He wishes to be together (there’s absolutely no need to spend time thinking about how to flirt). There’s a whole industry out there making millions off of men/women who are trying to figure out the “perfect” lines to say on a date, the proper way to sit, the “right” conversation topics and all of these things are Satan’s empty promises. It’s our secular humanist society that is telling people that they need to be in control of every last detail of their lives… If Christ actually wanted us to worry about all of these things then there would be 600,000 commandments instead of just 2!

To the OP, here are a couple of posts and quotes that show just how truly God brings spouses together on His own time (it really is quite beautiful ):

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9613197&postcount=14

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9616767&postcount=16

God bless!

Those are good points. No one likes clingy or needy. She should focus on being herself and following God.

I agree completely.

 

[PaulinVA]

Saber_Lily, I think the key to remember here is that if you are called to marriage, God has already chosen your spouse for you. You have absolutely no need to “attract” or purposely alter your appearance or behavior to find your future spouse (just be yourself!).

This is totally not true.

To believe that there is ONE person in the world that you must find to marry or you will never be happy or have a successful marriage removes free will from our lives. God has given humanity a general plan for our lives, but to think that He is the grand chess master moving us around on a chess board is wrong. Your search for a spouse is not a hunt for the one person God chose for you. What if that person exercises their free will and moves out of state?

You could probably marry any of a number of people and be able to live out a holy and successful life. We exercise free will, and our lives are affected by our decisions and the decisions of other people around us.

 

[MidnightSun12]

This is totally not true.

To believe that there is ONE person in the world that you must find to marry or you will never be happy or have a successful marriage removes free will from our lives. God has given humanity a general plan for our lives, but to think that He is the grand chess master moving us around on a chess board is wrong. Your search for a spouse is not a hunt for the one person God chose for you. What if that person exercises their free will and moves out of state?

You could probably marry any of a number of people and be able to live out a holy and successful life. We exercise free will, and our lives are affected by our decisions and the decisions of other people around us.

I think we have to remember that the Lord works through mysterious ways. While we Catholics do not believe in pre-destination, we do actually believe in pre-determination. Basically, while God gives us free-will He also knows every single decision we will ever make long before we were born (and works out His plan for us within the context of our free-will). The logistics of bringing two people together is a small task for someone as mighty as our Lord!

I actually recommend reading the book of Tobit (specifically the marriage betweenTobias and Sarah) to more fully understand how God calls us to marriage. I think this story should be mandatory reading for all single people out there who believe they are called to marriage!
Tobit 6:18:

But do not be afraid, for she was set apart for you before the world existed. You will save her, and she will go with you.

 

[PaulinVA]

I think we have to remember that the Lord works through mysterious ways. While we Catholics do not believe in pre-destination, we do actually believe in pre-determination. Basically, while God gives us free-will He also knows every single decision we will ever make long before we were born (and works out His plan for us within the context of our free-will). The logistics of bringing two people together is a small task for someone as mighty as our Lord!

Yes, God knows our decisions before we make them. That does not make our decisions predetermined. That does not mean that God has a plan for each of us.

Take the example of a mother killed by a drunk driver on the way to pick up a child at school. Are you saying that was part of God’s plan? God’s plan for an individual was to get drunk, kill someone, and spend their life in jail? While it is nice to think that “everything happens for a purpose”, if fact, sometimes people do stupid things that have bad consequences.

No, we are given a general roadmap to salvation and how to live our lives. It is up to us to live our lives according to the general instructions Jesus and His Church have given us.

So, in the context of finding a spouse - look for someone who thinks that marriage is forever and will stay with you for the rest of your life. Don’t waste your time looking for some perfect person you think God is going to place in front of you.

 

[MidnightSun12]

Take the example of a mother killed by a drunk driver on the way to pick up a child at school. Are you saying that was part of God’s plan? God’s plan for an individual was to get drunk, kill someone, and spend their life in jail? While it is nice to think that “everything happens for a purpose”, if fact, sometimes people do stupid things that have bad consequences.

How about if the mom who was killed in the accident died in a state of grace and is now in heaven, while her death had the secondary effect of re-uniting her family and bringing them back into the Church, thereby saving several more souls in the process? I agree that the act of being intoxicated is a mortal sin and its consequences are disgusting, but could God take that horrible situation make something beautiful come from it in the big picture?

So, in the context of finding a spouse - look for someone who thinks that marriage is forever and will stay with you for the rest of your life. Don’t waste your time looking for some perfect person you think God is going to place in front of you.

Like any Holy Sacrament, I believe matrimony must bring us closer to God (otherwise the marriage just isn’t coming from God). As a single guy, if I do not feel that a potential spouse is going to push me to be a better Catholic, then I have a moral duty not to marry this lady and to end the relationship immediately as to not lead her on.

 

[PaulinVA]

How about if the mom who was killed in the accident died in a state of grace and is now in heaven, while her death had the secondary effect of re-uniting her family and bringing them back into the Church, thereby saving several more souls in the process? I agree that the act of being intoxicated is a mortal sin and its consequences are disgusting, but could God take that horrible situation make something beautiful come from it in the big picture?

Yes, Romans 8:28. But that does not mean God caused the accident as a part of his plan for the mother’s and the driver’s lives. It just happened due to bad decisions on the part of the drunk. What happens afterwards can be a result of God’s grace, but He certainly doesn’t cause a mother to be killed and the other driver go to jail for life to reunite a family.

Like any Holy Sacrament, I believe matrimony must bring us closer to God (otherwise the marriage just isn’t coming from God). As a single guy, if I do not feel that a potential spouse is going to push me to be a better Catholic, then I have a moral duty not to marry this lady and to end the relationship immediately as to not lead her on.

True, but you end the relationship because the person isn’t someone you are going to marry, not because she isn’t* the one* that God will put in your path.

 

[MidnightSun12]

Yes, Romans 8:28. But that does not mean God caused the accident as a part of his plan for the mother’s and the driver’s lives. It just happened due to bad decisions on the part of the drunk. What happens afterwards can be a result of God’s grace, but He certainly doesn’t cause a mother to be killed and the other driver go to jail for life to reunite a family.

Agreed!

True, but you end the relationship because the person isn’t someone you are going to marry, not because she isn’t* the one* that God will put in your path.

To quote St Gregory Nazianzen,

I Hold that the choice of a state of life is so important that it decides, for the remainder of our lives, whether our conduct shall be good or bad.

I just can’t imagine a God who wants infinitely for us to reach heaven to leave us on our own to make such a crucial decision. If God willfully calls people to the state of matrimony then it follows logically that He would also give us everything we need to succeed in that state of life (including a Holy spouse). If God does not bring us our spouses, then would a holy person who is called to marriage, be risking their own salvation by being unable to “attract” a spouse or by deciding to live in an area where age demographics are unfavorable for finding a suitable mate?

God has told me with words that I am called to matrimony one day, and it would scare me tremendously if I had to actively search out a spouse according to my own abilities. It gives me great comfort when I read the words that God had for the marriage of Isaac and Rebecca: "Let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath prepared for my master’s son.” I know that all I have to do in my life is focus on loving God and my neighbour with 100% of my heart and everything else wothwhile in my life will be taken care of and fall into place!

 

[underacloud]

I have to speak up about this, as I feel that the point that I am trying to convey has been distorted.

I am not suggesting that the OP ought to sit at home widdling away while she waits for a spouse to show up at her door. What I am suggesting is that instead of specifically trying to “find” a spouse, that she should make the focus of her life be loving God with her whole heart and loving her neighbour by extension. This is no small matter and I can guarantee that no person who is trying to follow these commandments is going to have time to sit back and wait for a spouse. Faith without works is dead, and any Catholic who is trying to love God with his/her whole heart in today’s society is going to be very active in the community spreading the faith, helping the poor, fighting for the rights of the unborn, etc… The irony is that by doing these things, you will actually become more attractive to members of the opposite sex then if you were specifically searching them out for courtship. People are naturally attracted to those who are well-adjusted and have no inordinate need for a significant other (conversely, neediness and clinginess are extremely unnattractive qualities that drives people away).

As far as flirting and body language goes, these things will happen naturally when there’s chemistry and when God brings together two people who He wishes to be together (there’s absolutely no need to spend time thinking about how to flirt). There’s a whole industry out there making millions off of men/women who are trying to figure out the “perfect” lines to say on a date, the proper way to sit, the “right” conversation topics and all of these things are Satan’s empty promises. It’s our secular humanist society that is telling people that they need to be in control of every last detail of their lives… If Christ actually wanted us to worry about all of these things then there would be 600,000 commandments instead of just 2!

There is nothing wrong with learning good dating etiquette…it is certainly not from Satan to learn how to relate well to people of the opposite sex and to treat them respectfully, in a way that will foster good relationships and deepen mutual understanding. To love your neighbour better, you need to understand your neighbour better.

As for only focusing on loving God and neighbour, it’s a lovely sentiment but an overly simplistic answer to this question. As I said before, we pray to God for our daily bread, and then go off to work. We cooperate with God in achieving His plans for us. If He plans marriage for us, we need to cooperate with that plan. For some people, that may mean learning to relate to the opposite sex better and perhaps learning how to flirt…for some people these things are not at all natural.

Loving God and neighbour may mean that we have to work hard to discern our vocations and to learn how to do them well…whatever our vocations are. Priests and religious study for many years…why should those who’s vocation is marriage not study towards their vocation?

 

[PaulinVA]

I just can’t imagine a God who wants infinitely for us to reach heaven to leave us on our own to make such a crucial decision. If God willfully calls people to the state of matrimony then it follows logically that He would also give us everything we need to succeed in that state of life (including a Holy spouse).

Why? We have free will. We are made to pair up. We find someone we think might make a good spouse, and we discern, through prayer and talking to others, whether this is a good person for us to marry.

If God does not bring us our spouses, then would a holy person who is called to marriage, be risking their own salvation by being unable to “attract” a spouse or by deciding to live in an area where age demographics are unfavorable for finding a suitable mate?

Single people can work out their salvation just fine.

God has told me with words that I am called to matrimony one day, and it would scare me tremendously if I had to actively search out a spouse according to my own abilities. It gives me great comfort when I read the words that God had for the marriage of Isaac and Rebecca: "Let the same be the woman whom the Lord hath prepared for my master’s son.” I know that all I have to do in my life is focus on loving God and my neighbor with 100% of my heart and everything else wothwhile in my life will be taken care of and fall into place!

I would be much more scared to think that I had to find the needle in a haystack person that God wanted me to marry among all of the other women I would meet. What pressure! No, finding a spouse is up to you. Life is not a scavenger hunt looking for the one person God wants you to marry.

 

[MidnightSun12]

There is nothing wrong with learning good dating etiquette…it is certainly not from Satan to learn how to relate well to people of the opposite sex and to treat them respectfully, in a way that will foster good relationships and deepen mutual understanding. To love your neighbour better, you need to understand your neighbour better.

Absolutely no issues here!

As for only focusing on loving God and neighbour, it’s a lovely sentiment but an overly simplistic answer to this question. As I said before, we pray to God for our daily bread, and then go off to work. We cooperate with God in achieving His plans for us. If He plans marriage for us, we need to cooperate with that plan. For some people, that may mean learning to relate to the opposite sex better and perhaps learning how to flirt…for some people these things are not at all natural.

I agree with just about everything here, but I am having some trouble with the last sentence.

I am absolutely 100% with you when it comes to finding new ways to more fully give ourselves to our neighbour… learning about how women/men think can be a great way to become more empathetic and to overcome greed and pride when dealing with people of the opposite gender. When it comes to learning how to flirt, however, I think this depends heavily on how we define “flirting”.

If we define flirting as being confident and relaxed around other people and making jokes the same way we would with our own family, then I think this is not only OK but it’s actually a state that we should aim for! Jesus wants us to be the best version of ourselves and to not behave differently around different people. If we truly are in a virtuous state then I believe you could walk into a job interview behaving exactly the same way you would around the neighbour who lets their dog pee on your lawn and still walk out with a job offer! The key to getting to this state, is to grow in personal morality to such a degree that the whole world can dissapprove of you but God’s love is all you need to be content! (I don’t know about you but I’m a long ways off! )

If we define flirting as the intentional modification of one’s own behavior for the purpose of “getting” something, however, then I think that has very little to do with love (which is the full “giving” of one’s self). While the commandment to love thy neighbour is admittedly very broad, you have to admit that this concept of flirting does appear to be diametrically opposed to the general act of giving selflessly. I believe this is also a very unsuccessful method of flirting, since people can pick up on the lack of sincerity and they find it repulsive (just, as I’m sure, our Blessed Lord finds it repulsive).

This is why I don’t advise the intentional modification of one’s own behavior/physical qualities for the purpose of attracting a spouse (it seems to fit in much more closely with the latter definition of flirting then with the former). I think our future spouses deserve to see us behave the same way on a first date as she/he will see us behaving 10 years after marriage. If a person feels a need to change their behavior/appearance for a prospective date, then perhaps this is a cue that he/she needs to work more on loving their neighbour and following the commandments more closely since Jesus calls us to be perfect all the time, not just on first dates!

Loving God and neighbour may mean that we have to work hard to discern our vocations and to learn how to do them well…whatever our vocations are. Priests and religious study for many years…why should those who’s vocation is marriage not study towards their vocation?

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but while priests do study to learn how to carry out the job of “being a priest” is not the actual acceptance into the priesthood supposed to be left up to God’s will on a case by case basis?

I think it’s the same for marriage. I don’t see anything wrong for studying to learn how to be a good parent/husband, I just don’t think we should be trying to figure out techniques to “fake” our way in!

PaulinVA:

Why? We have free will. We are made to pair up. We find someone we think might make a good spouse, and we discern, through prayer and talking to others, whether this is a good person for us to marry.

This is exactly what I would do to figure out if the person whom I was dating was God’s chosen spouse for me!

Why do I get the feeling that you and I are slowly converging on the same answer, coming from two different places? All things considered, does it really matter whether God has a 100 potential spouses for us, or just a single chosen spouse? I mean, at the end of the day, we’re going to end up marrying just one!