Flood in the Epic of Gilgamesh

[Curious_Hobbit]

What do y’all think of the Flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh? What relation (if any) do u think it has to the Noah story? How do we reconcile these 2 separate accounts? Does the flood in the Gilgamesh story even matter? Thanks!

 

[NotWorthy]

Why should it matter?

 

[Dave_Noonan]

What do y’all think of the Flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh? What relation (if any) do u think it has to the Noah story? How do we reconcile these 2 separate accounts? Does the flood in the Gilgamesh story even matter? Thanks!

In the Gilgamesh account, humans are destroyed by the gods very arbitrary action. The gods act without any sense of morality at all–it’s all about their self interest and preservation. In the Genesis account, the flood is the result of human violence.

The two stories show a difference between the Israelites’ understanding of their relationship to the divine than those of at least some of their neighbors. I think that’s helpful.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

If you live on a flood plain, you have folk histories about epic floods. Noah and Gilgamesh are tied together this way, but whether they refer to the same flood cannot be known.

 

[Zooey]

If you live on a flood plain, you have folk histories about epic floods. Noah and Gilgamesh are tied together this way, but whether they refer to the same flood cannot be known.

This is the same thing that I think…

 

[Ron_Conte]

The numerous flood myths found in ancient societies around the world indicate that some type of unique flood event occurred throughout the world. This is consistent with the assertion of Sacred infallible Scripture that a great flood occurred. But we need not interpret the flood story as being entirely literal; it has some literal elements and some figurative elements.

Literal: There was a Noah and an ark and a flood.

Figurative: The extent of the flood is figurative, representing the extent of sin and of the offer of salvation, as is the extent of the number of animals on the ark, representing all life on earth. So the flood need not have killed all human persons outside the ark.

But the many flood myths indicate that some type of cataclysmic event happened worldwife.

W. Bruce Masse’s theory is that a comet struck in the Indian ocean, throwing immense amounts of water into the upper atmosphere, and causing severe flooding worldwide.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

The numerous flood myths found in ancient societies around the world indicate that some type of unique flood event occurred throughout the world. This is consistent with the assertion of Sacred infallible Scripture that a great flood occurred. But we need not interpret the flood story as being entirely literal; it has some literal elements and some figurative elements…

No, they indicate that floods happen whenever a river civilization like those in the Fertile Crescent, the Indus valley or in the Nile establishes along a river flood plain. Its called flood plain for a reason. If you live in an agricultural world, you expect yearly flooding to fertilize your fields for planting. Mother Nature being the capricious witch that she is, and in the absence of upriver control dams, sometimes the flooding is really bad and you get epic folktales of the angry sky gods washing away everything because this sometimes actually happened.

Does the RCC **require **a belief in the literal noaic flood?

 

[xsuasox]

We had to read that for what was basically Theology 101 my freshman year to give perspective on the idea of Jewish God versus Non-Jewish gods belonging to people living in the same region.

Then I took an honors level theology class the next year and it was made clear that we didn’t have to believe in a literal interpretation of the flood event in Genesis.

 

[NHInsider]

No, they indicate that floods happen whenever a river civilization like those in the Fertile Crescent, the Indus valley or in the Nile establishes along a river flood plain. Its called flood plain for a reason. If you live in an agricultural world, you expect yearly flooding to fertilize your fields for planting. Mother Nature being the capricious witch that she is, and in the absence of upriver control dams, sometimes the flooding is really bad and you get epic folktales of the angry sky gods washing away everything because this sometimes actually happened.

Does the RCC **require **a belief in the literal noaic flood?

The connection between the Gilgamesh and Noah accounts can be a result of their geography, but there are flood myths in Inuit, Algonkian and mesoAmerican lore, in sub-saharan Africa and southeast Asia - far from indoeuropean influence, and not always in floodplains. Which might mean that the flood is something nearly-universal in our subconscious that gets translated into mythic language (amniotic fluid - a world Before and After the rushing water?) or, possibly, an actual event so far back in prehistory (before the “out of Africa” dispersal that it survived in the collective memories of peoples all over the planet.

The ways that the event or phenomenon is described in the ancient epics, of course, tells us about the ways those peoples understood the cosmos, and the Noah account tells us about a Creator God who knows and cares about individuals and desires to be in relationship with them, who also has expectations of them and cares whether or not they respond.

 

[edwest2]

No, they indicate that floods happen whenever a river civilization like those in the Fertile Crescent, the Indus valley or in the Nile establishes along a river flood plain. Its called flood plain for a reason. If you live in an agricultural world, you expect yearly flooding to fertilize your fields for planting. Mother Nature being the capricious witch that she is, and in the absence of upriver control dams, sometimes the flooding is really bad and you get epic folktales of the angry sky gods washing away everything because this sometimes actually happened.

Does the RCC **require **a belief in the literal noaic flood?

Why does it matter to you? I was taught, in Catholic school, that there was a global flood and an actual Ark. There is no reason to change that or guess otherwise.

Peace,
Ed

 

[buffalo]

**A comparative study of the flood accounts in the Gilgamesh Epic and Genesis

**Conclusion

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

Why does it matter to you? I was taught, in Catholic school, that there was a global flood and an actual Ark. There is no reason to change that or guess otherwise…

Fantastic. I wasn’t taught that. So its being debated.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

A comparative study of the flood accounts in the Gilgamesh Epic and Genesis

Conclusion

you lost me with a source linking to “Creation Museum” and referencing Noah’s “naval architectural skill”.

To clarify, are you asserting a belief in the ark as a matter of faith or science?

Would you give the first names of the individuals cited as sources in the conclusion?

 

[Not_Sure_1]

What happened is there was a great flood back in prehistory and
stories were passed down of it through the generations. As it went
down the generations, some got it wrong and some got it right.

In the Bible, we have the true story of what went down during the flood.
the Epic of Gilgamesh is the corrupted “telephone game” version
where what they got right is that

1. there was a great flood
2. one man was called to be saved
3. A boat/ark like object was used to survive
4. God did it.

 

[NHInsider]

Dei Verbum Chapter 3

Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation. Therefore “all Scripture is divinely inspired and has its use for teaching the truth and refuting error, for reformation of manners and discipline in right living, so that the man who belongs to God may be efficient and equipped for good work of every kind” (2 Tim. 3:16-17, Greek text).

However, since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words.

To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to “literary forms.” For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

The connection between the Gilgamesh and Noah accounts can be a result of their geography, but there are flood myths in Inuit, Algonkian and mesoAmerican lore, in sub-saharan Africa and southeast Asia - far from indoeuropean influence, and not always in floodplains. Which might mean that the flood is something nearly-universal in our subconscious that gets translated into mythic language (amniotic fluid - a world Before and After the rushing water?) or, possibly, an actual event so far back in prehistory (before the “out of Africa” dispersal that it survived in the collective memories of peoples all over the planet.

The ways that the event or phenomenon is described in the ancient epics, of course, tells us about the ways those peoples understood the cosmos, and the Noah account tells us about a Creator God who knows and cares about individuals and desires to be in relationship with them, who also has expectations of them and cares whether or not they respond.

While the first paragraph would lead to an interesting debate as to the details, I agree entirely with the second as a well stated Christian view of the Noah story.

 

[Ron_Conte]

What happened is there was a great flood back in prehistory and
stories were passed down of it through the generations. As it went
down the generations, some got it wrong and some got it right.

W. Bruce Masse dates the Flood to 2807 B.C.
This date is in the approx. correct time frame based on the number of generations, and other lengths of time, given in Scripture from the Flood to the time of Christ.

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

This is absurd. When these noaic flood is real claims are made in reputable peer reviewed mainstream geology journals, or even a professional marine engineering publication, but that’s not going to happen.

 

[NHInsider]

Ron is a literalist. Don’t even go there.

 

[buffalo]

This is absurd. When these noaic flood is real claims are made in reputable peer reviewed mainstream geology journals, or even a professional marine engineering publication, but that’s not going to happen.

Do you think it will considering the fact that a supernatural explanation is a priori ruled out?