FOCCUS & interfaith marriages

[YinYangMom]

Before I approach our priest about this I thought I’d check with you here for your insights based on your catechism and life experiences in the faith.

Hubby and I are FOCCUS advisors for our parish so we went through the training a couple of years ago and have seen quite a few couples over the years. Our job is primarily to facilitate the couples to engage in discussion on issues raised in the inventory so they go into the sacramental vows with eyes wide open (or at least more open than before they took the inventory).

Tonight was a doozie…our first: For confidentiality matters I’ll try to be as general as possible, but the couple is older and therefore children are a ‘known’ non-issue. She’s Catholic, he’s athiest. First marriage for both. They scored well on all categories except children and religion. We went through the questions, kept things comfortable and sent them on their way.

Right now I’m confused as to why we were even presented with the couple in the first place. Does it make sense to anyone else here why she would be entitled to a sacramental marriage ceremony with Mass (though they assured us he would not be allowed anywhere near the altar)? I would think this would be one of those matters where the church would deny her wish to have the sacrament when she clearly isn’t entering into a covenant with an equal spiritual partner (though he is going through whatever the church asks out of respect for her).

Help me understand this, please. Thank you.

 

[chimakuni]

Okay, so what I read that you are writing is why the Church is permitting these people to be married in the Catholic Church when you know that the husband is not at all spiritual?

The woman is Roman Catholic. She has a desire to be married. She is in love with this man. She obviously thinks enough of her faith to request that she be married in the Church. I know of people who have one spouse LDS or one spouse Jewish. Does that mean that they should not have married?

By questioning their union, you are not really being fair to them. A couple should help one another in the sacrament of marriage to become holy and eventually become saints in heaven with God. You never know how the Holy Spirit will work in this marriage - the atheist may not be atheist their whole marriage.

Give God a chance! God Bless - and thank you for giving of your time to help out in this most important sacramental preparation.

 

[YinYangMom]

chimakuni:

Okay, so what I read that you are writing is why the Church is permitting these people to be married in the Catholic Church when you know that the husband is not at all spiritual?

The woman is Roman Catholic. She has a desire to be married. She is in love with this man. She obviously thinks enough of her faith to request that she be married in the Church. I know of people who have one spouse LDS or one spouse Jewish. Does that mean that they should not have married?

By questioning their union, you are not really being fair to them. A couple should help one another in the sacrament of marriage to become holy and eventually become saints in heaven with God. You never know how the Holy Spirit will work in this marriage - the atheist may not be atheist their whole marriage.

Give God a chance! God Bless - and thank you for giving of your time to help out in this most important sacramental preparation.

Well I’m a firm believer of the power of the Holy Spirit and the possibility for conversion. But my catechesis, which I thought was good, apparently wasn’t - as some of my fellow CA forum posters have helped me see.

First of all, I’m not in the position to determine who should or should not be married in the Church. My intent is not to dissect this particular couple as much as it it to use the situation as a springboard to learn more about Catholicism.

They’re a great couple, actually, we got along quite well and they’ll be married till death do them part, we could see that right away. We’re not worried about that. They’ve been happy for several years already and definitely know what they’re getting into. They’ll be fine.

It’s just that some of the points discussed in our session raised questions for me about the Church. She didn’t seem to recognize the covenant aspect of the sacrement at all - it was more a ‘right’ she was entitled to for being baptized in the faith. Maybe that’s true. I honestly don’t know. Is it? Do we all have a right to receive the sacraments even if the person we are entering into the covenant with doesn’t even acknowledge God exists or is present in the church and therefore leaves God out of that covenant?

 

[chimakuni]

“Do we all have a right to receive the sacraments even if the person we are entering into the covenant with doesn’t even acknowledge God exists or is present in the church and therefore leaves God out of that covenant?”

The woman could ask for dispensation to marry outside of the Church, but she is firm enough in her faith to want to be married in the Church. The question is … is she, the Roman Catholic partner prepared to enter into this covenant with the knowledge that her partner does not view this as a covenant? In writing about her, you seem to indicate that she does not see her part in the marriage as being a covenantal (is that a word?) part. She sees it more as a right.

That is a toughie, then. I would have to say . . . who knows. I was married in the Church (before I converted) and I had NO idea that it was a sacrament nor that it was a covenant.

I learned, through the grace of God, that it was both. However, it would have made good fodder for an annulment if our marriage had not worked out.

If you have grave concerns, I would take it to the priest. Many people feel that the Church owes them this or that…I am aware of that, so be aware that this is not a unique situation, although a sticky one.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

YinYangMom:

Right now I’m confused as to why we were even presented with the couple in the first place. Does it make sense to anyone else here why she would be entitled to a sacramental marriage ceremony with Mass (though they assured us he would not be allowed anywhere near the altar)? I would think this would be one of those matters where the church would deny her wish to have the sacrament when she clearly isn’t entering into a covenant with an equal spiritual partner (though he is going through whatever the church asks out of respect for her).

First, FOCCUS is an instrument designed to help facilitate communication. That it is being used, even for an older couple, is good. Second, if he’s not baptized then there is no sacramental marriage (that requires two baptized persons). They would be entering into what is called a “natural bond” marriage. And, as a Catholic, she has a right to a blessing of her marriage, even if it is to a non-Catholic. The Church is a good mother and does seek the best for her children. Marriages with non-Catholics are, in fact, discouraged. She will require a dispensation from the bishop for this marriage (disparity of worship in the specific dispensation). But if she attempts marriage outside of the Church she cuts herself off from the sacraments. Is that what you would want for her?

Deacon Ed

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

YinYangMom:

Tonight was a doozie…our first: For confidentiality matters I’ll try to be as general as possible, but the couple is older and therefore children are a ‘known’ non-issue. She’s Catholic, he’s athiest. First marriage for both. They scored well on all categories except children and religion. We went through the questions, kept things comfortable and sent them on their way.

First off if he is not Baptized then there is no Sacrament of Marriage and there can not be a Mass. Second if he is Baptized but is now an athiest, then there cannot be a Nuptual Mass either.

 

[YinYangMom]

Deacon Ed:

First, FOCCUS is an instrument designed to help facilitate communication. That it is being used, even for an older couple, is good. Second, if he’s not baptized then there is no sacramental marriage (that requires two baptized persons). They would be entering into what is called a “natural bond” marriage. And, as a Catholic, she has a right to a blessing of her marriage, even if it is to a non-Catholic. The Church is a good mother and does seek the best for her children. Marriages with non-Catholics are, in fact, discouraged. She will require a dispensation from the bishop for this marriage (disparity of worship in the specific dispensation). But if she attempts marriage outside of the Church she cuts herself off from the sacraments. Is that what you would want for her?

Deacon Ed

Now that sounds like what I would expect…that she would be entitled to a blessing of her marriage, but she made it sound like they were having Mass, too. Perhaps they’re simply having a church wedding as opposed to a sacramental marriage, and that would make sense to me. I’m looking forward to speaking to the priest about this as it really through my husband and I for a loop to be presented with a couple like this.

 

[YinYangMom]

Br. Rich SFO:

First off if he is not Baptized then there is no Sacrament of Marriage and there can not be a Mass. Second if he is Baptized but is now an athiest, then there cannot be a Nuptual Mass either.

Interesting. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.