For _A_ & Others: Tolerant, Intellectual Catholicism

[LaMar]

On the advice of Matt_RC I’ve been communicating with a Jesuit or two. The Jesuits have a cycle of prayers that are available here:
sjweb.info/spiritual/index.cfm

As a non-Catholic and non-Theist who enjoys the Jesus story, I thought this was particularly impressive:

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If Jesus were to appear in our world, he (or she - let us allow scope to possibilities) would be born unnoticed, to a good, struggling family in Ecuador, Uzbekistan or some place out of the news. People would be puzzled, ‘Where is that place?’ He would not be on television, nor would he occupy a centre of power or wealth. He would be pushed around, slandered and criticised. He would speak simple truths, and some would listen to him and recognise the voice of God. The good news would spread slowly, as it did two thousand years ago. It would graft on to whatever was good in the world he found. The brokers of power and wealth would not notice it, nor offer their sponsorship. The happy irony of today is that after the first 2000 years, the good news is so widespread that whether they knew it or not, the whole human race joined in celebrating Jesus’ millennium birthday. ***

Any other skeptics in here who appreciate this, or is it just me? What do you think Brother A?

 

[zaffiroborant]

On the advice of Matt_RC I’ve been communicating with a Jesuit or two. The Jesuits have a cycle of prayers that are available here:
sjweb.info/spiritual/index.cfm

As a non-Catholic and non-Theist who enjoys the Jesus story, I thought this was particularly impressive:

---

If Jesus were to appear in our world, he (or she - let us allow scope to possibilities) would be born unnoticed, to a good, struggling family in Ecuador, Uzbekistan or some place out of the news. People would be puzzled, ‘Where is that place?’ He would not be on television, nor would he occupy a centre of power or wealth. He would be pushed around, slandered and criticised. He would speak simple truths, and some would listen to him and recognise the voice of God. The good news would spread slowly, as it did two thousand years ago. It would graft on to whatever was good in the world he found. The brokers of power and wealth would not notice it, nor offer their sponsorship. The happy irony of today is that after the first 2000 years, the good news is so widespread that whether they knew it or not, the whole human race joined in celebrating Jesus’ millennium birthday. ***

Any other skeptics in here who appreciate this, or is it just me? What do you think Brother A?

I’m just not sure about the last sentence particularly the whole human race part, I’d have to see some substantiation.

 

[LaMar]

I’m just not sure about the last sentence particularly the whole human race part, I’d have to see some substantiation.

Not everyone loves Christmas…Scrooge is the only good example I can document.

I’m sorry A hasn’t responded yet. I think it’d be interesting to get a constructive dialogue going between secularists and theists. Habermas and Ratzinger managed it. Why not us?

amazon.com/dp/1586171666

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

On the advice of Matt_RC I’ve been communicating with a Jesuit or two. The Jesuits have a cycle of prayers that are available here:
sjweb.info/spiritual/index.cfm

As a non-Catholic and non-Theist who enjoys the Jesus story, I thought this was particularly impressive:

***If Jesus were to appear in our world, he (or she - let us allow scope to possibilities) would be born unnoticed, to a good, struggling family in Ecuador, Uzbekistan or some place out of the news. People would be puzzled, ‘Where is that place?’ He would not be on television, nor would he occupy a centre of power or wealth. He would be pushed around, slandered and criticised. He would speak simple truths, and some would listen to him and recognise the voice of God. The good news would spread slowly, as it did two thousand years ago. It would graft on to whatever was good in the world he found. The brokers of power and wealth would not notice it, nor offer their sponsorship. The happy irony of today is that after the first 2000 years, the good news is so widespread that whether they knew it or not, the whole human race joined in celebrating Jesus’ millennium birthday. ***

Any other skeptics in here who appreciate this, or is it just me? What do you think Brother A?

I think that if Jesus had been born in such circumstances (more or less), many Christians would have dismissed him as a deluded & dangerous fanatic, & that the civil & religious authorities would have buried their differences & ganged up against Him, & imprisoned or killed Him. I think they would have found Him profoundly threatening - & that we would, were He to be among us today.​

 

[roguejim]

On the advice of Matt_RC I’ve been communicating with a Jesuit or two. The Jesuits have a cycle of prayers that are available here:
sjweb.info/spiritual/index.cfm

As a non-Catholic and non-Theist who enjoys the Jesus story, I thought this was particularly impressive:

---

If Jesus were to appear in our world, he (or she - let us allow scope to possibilities) would be born unnoticed, to a good, struggling family in Ecuador, Uzbekistan or some place out of the news. People would be puzzled, ‘Where is that place?’ He would not be on television, nor would he occupy a centre of power or wealth. He would be pushed around, slandered and criticised. He would speak simple truths, and some would listen to him and recognise the voice of God. The good news would spread slowly, as it did two thousand years ago. It would graft on to whatever was good in the world he found. The brokers of power and wealth would not notice it, nor offer their sponsorship. The happy irony of today is that after the first 2000 years, the good news is so widespread that whether they knew it or not, the whole human race joined in celebrating Jesus’ millennium birthday. ***

Any other skeptics in here who appreciate this, or is it just me? What do you think Brother A?

Not that I would ever knock a Jesuit but, the story seems a tad humanistic. No mention of miracles, I see. And with modern communication, I argue that He would be on television, the “brokers of power and wealth” would notice, and the good news would spread quickly. This isn’t to say that he wouldn’t meet opposition. He would. Maybe I’m just not getting it, but the story itself is off in many ways.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I have two takes on this.

1. As a wise man, there are already plenty of Jesuses around.
2. As a worker of wonders, it doesnt matter where jesus is born today -the press would cover him and he will gain millions of followers. That includes me.

 

[MementoMori3283]

People would be puzzled, ‘Where is that place?’ He would not be on television, nor would he occupy a centre of power or wealth. He would be pushed around, slandered and criticised. He would speak simple truths, and some would listen to him and recognise the voice of God. The good news would spread slowly, as it did two thousand years ago. It would graft on to whatever was good in the world he found. The brokers of power and wealth would not notice it, nor offer their sponsorship.

Except for your first sentence, isn’t that exactly what the Gospels testify to?

I agree that people would be puzzled if Jesus, the Messiah, arrived in Uzbekistan simply because of the prohecy surrounding the Messiah.

Interestingly enough, The Roman Empire, notorious for its expansion was in a state of “Pax Romana” for a great number of years allowing for the message to spread quite easily via the roads built by the empire.