For All Jews: Is God Silent?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Elijah_Baley
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Elijah_Baley

Guest
I address this question to any practicing, devout Jews. I don’t want to proselytize. I just don’t know the orthodox Jewish answer to these questions:

Which of the Jewish scriptures is the latests chronologically?
Why is there no more sacred scripture since then?

I know the Catholic answers to these questions, but it only just occurred to me to wonder aloud why the Jewish scriptures seem to stop appearing sometime in antiquity. Are historical reasons — the Diaspora — to blame? What’s working here?
 
Like any self respecting Jew, I will answer your question with one of my own; What do yo mean by silent? Your question alludes to there being no formal scripture written in the almost 2500 years since the completion of the TANAK ( what you call the “Old Testament”). However, you forget that for a devout Jew there is also the Talmud… a sort of Rabbinical commentary on the scriptures. You see,for most Jews ( and probably most Christians) God said what He needed to say…what more is there? Are you waiting for something else? I am not myself a practicing Jew, however I was raised in an orthodox home. Had God not called me to a different life, I would be an Orthodox Jew now.

Jews don’t use nor consider the “New Testament” part of scripture, but for the sake of argument, let us look at the old and new testaments as one book. As such,it covers the entire breadth of the time line of creation, from it’s beginning when God says ‘Let there be’ in Genesis to the second comming of Christ in Revelation. What more do you think needs to be there?

Now if you are talking about a prayer life, well that is something else entirely. Here God is not silent, nor is He expected to be. I think in terms of what is meant for everyone, God has said His piece. In terms of what God says to us personally in our walk with Him, well I hope that for you He is not silent. 😉
 
I wasn’t looking to bring the New Testament into this …

Rephrase: What is the reason for the historical narratives and prophecies being lost to antiquity? Why is there not further development along those lines within the canon of Jewish scripture, only within interpretations of the Mosaic Law? Does the Mosaic Law give any reason for this cessation of revelation?
 
I wasn’t looking to bring the New Testament into this …

Rephrase: What is the reason for the historical narratives and prophecies being lost to antiquity? Why is there not further development along those lines within the canon of Jewish scripture, only within interpretations of the Mosaic Law? Does the Mosaic Law give any reason for this cessation of revelation?
Like Catholicism, Judaism has its own form of Tradition. I would guess that this Tradition explains for Jews the so-called “cessation of revelation”.

When Judea was devasted in 70 CE and then again in 135, Jewish response was to live the Torah, to interpret the Torah, prophets, and writings, to center its life in the synagogues, and develop the rabbinate.

That is, the supposed “cessation of revelation” was not seen as problematic for Jews post-70. Indeed, except for sporadic prophets and Messianic claimants, Judaism had already reconciled itself to the notion of “revelation’s cessation” well before Jesus’ time. After that, they reformed and restructured their religion, without assistance from any “new revelation”, whatever that might have been.

Nothing personal - but I do wonder why you ask this question only of Judaism, since “revelation” has also ceased in Catholicism and most mainline Protestant and Islamic bodies. Why do you regard Judaism as a special case? Why do you perceive that Jews experience their God as “silent”? Yahweh is no more or less silent to the Jews than he is to Christians and Muslims. God speaks to Jews through scripture and tradition, and is accessed through prayer - just as is the case with the other Abrahamic faiths. Why, among them all, do you think Jews may experience a silent deity?
 
. . …

Nothing personal - but I do wonder why you ask this question only of Judaism, since “revelation” has also ceased in Catholicism and most mainline Protestant and Islamic bodies. Why do you regard Judaism as a special case? Why do you perceive that Jews experience their God as “silent”? Yahweh is no more or less silent to the Jews than he is to Christians and Muslims. God speaks to Jews through scripture and tradition, and is accessed through prayer - just as is the case with the other Abrahamic faiths. Why, among them all, do you think Jews may experience a silent deity?
Christians believe that Jesus completed revelation, and nothing further is needed. I think that Islam believes the same of Mohamed. The question may be what or who completed revelation for the Jews. Do you have a definite end point of prophecy, a final prophet?
 
Nothing personal - but I do wonder why you ask this question only of Judaism, since “revelation” has also ceased in Catholicism and most mainline Protestant and Islamic bodies.
Because the Judaic texts after the Torah are grouped are prophecy or “writings” — I wondered aloud why there were no more prophets, no more writings added to the Tanakh, and whether it was strictly from historical causes or if there were some intratexual clue of which I was unaware. It struck me at the time that the very direct appearances of God in the Torah gave way very slowly to prophecies and then simple writings, with diminishing returns, for wont of a phrase.

As a Catholic, it occurred to me that this phenomenon was very clearly explained with the appearance of Jesus Christ, and on that was the turn that brought the world a very different form of meaningful encounter with God. I thought, or it seemed to me, that maybe God appearing consistently throughout the Judaic faith early on and more sporadically later on and eventually not in person at all — *please *correct me if I’m wrong — would create the hunger which Jesus was perfectly suited to satiate.

When atheists ask me why God doesn’t appear much anymore, that’s my answer, that: No, He does, in very real ways like documented miracles and intercessions, and not only in our prayer life. I find listing the former is more necessary because atheists scoff at “prayer life” as a non-empirical placebo effect.

I didn’t know the Jewish explanation, and so I asked.
Do you have a definite end point of prophecy, a final prophet?
Wish I had thought of phrasing it that way. That goes down much easier.
 
I am very ignorant of how much scripture the Jewish faith currently uses and if any Jewish people have been called by God into prophecy. I guess I’ll keep an eye on this thread and browse the internet in the meantime.
 
Interesting site www.nabion.org about some modern Jewish prophecy, note that the authors of the site are Jewish but believe in Yeshua. I’m not very certain of the clearness with which they hear the word of the Lord, but I haven’t really looked into it much.
 
I wrote the local orthodox rabbi an e-mail:

Rabbi -----------,

I am curious about the nature of Jewish revelation. I talked to a friend of mine who now lives out of town, but he had attended your synagogue some years ago and he recommended that I consult you. He and I would also be interested in any book we could read in English which summarizes the Jewish approaches to revelation, and whether there is and, if not, why there has not been a definitive answer to the question of why there has not been something like a wholly authoritative ecumenical council for the Jews since the Talmud. As much as we could, hypothetically, consult the Talmud ourselves, that is a task for a lifetime and he the medical student and myself the legal student would not do study of the Talmud justice. This request is the first of two questions. The second comes later.

I am a Catholic, and I am secure in my faith; I also agree with John Paul the Great who recognized that the Jewish people are our elder brothers in that same faith. In this spirit, I wondered what the Jewish answer could be to the atheist question: “Why doesn’t G-d just write a message on the moon to prove He does, really, exist?” Atheists themselves, I understand, cannot be persuaded by men to believe in G-d as we do, but their question lingers like the barbs of a thistle.

The Christian answer — the earliest answer I’ve read is by C.S. Lewis — consists of, to paraphrase, “You really don’t want G-d to come again, for when he does it will be total and final and you cannot only then change your allegiance.” Public revelation is closed, and definitively, with the accounts in Apocalypse and Jesus’ prophecies and resurrection in the Gospels. I also answer with the caveat of an active prayer life and other ever-continuing private revelation, but these answers are always dismissed as placebo effects by atheists.

Is there an analogue to the Christian closing of revelation in Judaism? From what I can tell, the Tanakh has the Torah where G-d is very really seen, prophecy where he is said to be seen again someday and further writings after that which do not seem to have the direct character of G-d nearly as present as He was with Moses. The Talmud seems to be commentary, and subsequent writings are often characterized to me as commentaries on that commentary. While I trust that some are very rightly held in very high esteem, I cannot shake this impression: That Jews are left listening for G-d, who speaks ever quieter through the centuries and is so quiet now that He can hardly be said to be speaking at all. Ever-quieter whispers from G-d have the effect on the untrained ear, I think, as if G-d ended in the middle of a sentence — or a question — without resolution. Christians, on the other hand, believe we have heard the final question and, while they wait for the answer, live with reasonable satisfaction that the answer has been hinted at. The only cause for anxiety is a matter of when it will strike — and we must live our lives as if it always strikes.

In writing the above, a strange thought occurred to me: Is the training of the ear to listen ever closer to G-d the point? Does G-d speak ever quieter to the Jewish people so they learn, always better, to listen? Are the commentaries not, as I assumed, going out further and further out into speculation, as if towards the end of a limb, but rather to dig deeper and deeper into the Torah, as towards the lode of a mine?

I think I have removed the thistle. I ask you, Rabbi, my second question: How else is it removed?

Thank you for your thoughtful reply,

— N.
 
I address this question to any practicing, devout Jews. I don’t want to proselytize. I just don’t know the orthodox Jewish answer to these questions:

Which of the Jewish scriptures is the latests chronologically?
Why is there no more sacred scripture since then?

I know the Catholic answers to these questions, but it only just occurred to me to wonder aloud why the Jewish scriptures seem to stop appearing sometime in antiquity. Are historical reasons — the Diaspora — to blame? What’s working here?
I am not a practicing Jew but before becoming Catholic I did explore Orthodox Judaism for a while. I remember hearing/reading something about how when the temple was destroyed by the Romans the divine presence left the world in some way and prophecy ceased. Maybe that is the Jewish explanation, or the explanation of some Jews.
 
I address this question to any practicing, devout Jews. I don’t want to proselytize. I just don’t know the orthodox Jewish answer to these questions:

Which of the Jewish scriptures is the latests chronologically?
Why is there no more sacred scripture since then?

I know the Catholic answers to these questions, but it only just occurred to me to wonder aloud why the Jewish scriptures seem to stop appearing sometime in antiquity. Are historical reasons — the Diaspora — to blame? What’s working here?
I am not a practicing Jew but before becoming Catholic I did explore Orthodox Judaism for a while. I remember hearing/reading something about how when the temple was destroyed by the Romans the divine presence left the world in some way and prophecy ceased. Maybe that is the Jewish explanation, or the explanation of some Jews.
 
God still speaks to them, threw sacred scripture and sacred tradition.

God said they were his ppl for all eternity…

when God says eternity,

He means eternity

Hell, Heaven= eternal, eternity.

If God didnt mean Jews were His eternal ppl
then God didn’t mean heaven and hell were eternal.

so yes, God speaks to His ppl, through sacred scripture and tradition, that has guided them, and preserved them throughout the ages.

in terms of miracles? ive heard them report miracles. But bear in mind in the TNK, Miracles in no way proved you were from GOd… if you so much as taught against the Torah- they knew based on the torah that REGARDLESS of your claims and successful miracles that you were false… hence ive noticed a tendency to not down play miracles, but arent so anxious to tell everyone either.

~ source: me, and my own studies of Orthodox Judaism
 
Which of the Jewish scriptures is the latests chronologically?
Why is there no more sacred scripture since then?
How come theres no more gospels? or “letters of paul” Christian sacred scripture is CLOSED too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top