For All the Protestants That Care to Answer . . .

[Ladybug42]

The reason is people commited the sin of schism and then heresy.

There were abuses, and severe ones at that, so prevalent that they could not be ignored. The sin laid with the those who were doing the abuse. Not the ones who had not choice but to leave. We are seeing the same thing in the Episcopal Church now. Those who are leaving it are being accused of being schismatics, when what is happening is that the church at large is straying.

 

[AlegreFe]

That is how Latter-day Saints trust that their church is the True Church, as well. Against all criticism against their founder and their beginnings, they look to the faith that God gave them to continute to believe.

I don’t understand this reply to me. Are you saying that I am wrong to trust the Church because of the faith that God gave me? If I trust Jesus, then I trust His Church.

Ladybug42:

We are told in the Bible that the Church is Christ, of which all Christians are members. Christ is the One True Church. Buildings where we meet, and denoms, are part of the superficial trappings of that Church.

I don’t disagree with you here. The Church is the Body of Christ and we are its members. We, though many, are one body in Christ. It just so happens that Jesus did set aside ONE Church that has the Fullness of the Faith. It has ALL Truths and the FULL means of Salvation. That is the Catholic Church. And although there are many Christians out there that are not members of the Catholic Church, they are still members of the Body of Christ.

Ladybug42:

Any denom that tries to say that the One True Church is anything other than Christ, is wrong. And I don’t think a response of that Christ is only present in the Catholic Eucharistic will cut it this time. Christ is in us and us in Him, just as the Scriptures say, or else we would not be Christian.

The Catholic Church is not a denomination.

I don’t disagree with you here either. The Eucharist is Christ. But Christ is also spiritually present in any Christian that has Love of God through the name of Jesus and Love of neighbor for the Glory of God. I also believe they have to baptized to be my brother and/or sister in Christ. I also believe that we have to obey the command that Jesus has for us to eat and drink His Body and Blood.

I know some denoms believe that their bread is not just a symbol and they do as Jesus commands in John 6. That faith that those people have for the ‘reality’ of the food that they eat has got to be commended. I am so sure that God gives them graces galore for that kind of faith. But when they learn that the real presence is only in the Catholic Church (and any other that is united to our Pope), they would want to partake of the “real thing” in the Catholic Church. That is Jesus Christ tugging at their hearts wanting them to abide with Him in the Eucharist. I don’t see why anyone wouldn’t want Jesus Christ in the Eucharist once they learn about Him being substantially (and not just Spiritually) present in the Catholic Church.

 

[RNRobert]

substantially

(and not just Spiritually) present in the Catholic Church.

I agree! I remember as a kid being forced to go to church occasionally (My Dad and his mother were Methodist) and I hated being dragged to church to hear some corny songs and a preacher telling boring stories (once the minister even did magic tricks on the altar during the service- I thought to myself, “*This *is why I was forced to get up early and get dressed up for?”). But one time we were attending church with my Grandmother they had Communion. People took turns kneeling at the altar as they partook of the Bread and Wine. I hadn’t the foggiest idea what they were doing (I was a teenager at the time), but to me it seemed something real. My father and I didn’t go up, but I wanted to. Later as an adult in the Navy, I was in the mess deck as a Protestant communion service was being set up. I was invited to join, but declined, yet I felt like I was turning my back on something good. When I finally became a Christian, I joined a Baptist Church, and felt it was very important for me to take Communion. However, there was a table up front with the words “DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME” engraved on it, yet we only took communion once a month, if that. It wasn’t til I became a Catholic that I learned the true meaning of the Eucharist.

 

[Ladybug42]

I don’t understand this reply to me. Are you saying that I am wrong to trust the Church because of the faith that God gave me? If I trust Jesus, then I trust His Church.

Yes, I believe that you are wrong for blindly trusting the Catholic Church (if your trust is based solely on faith alone, it is unbalanced). If you trust Jesus, then you trust His words concerning the One True Church, which is not one single denomination, but His Body, of which all Christians are members. I would be suspicious of any human institution that made such a claim. Latter-day Saints do so, and the creepy, suspicious feeling I felt with them was so strong upon reading your own words above that I brought it to your attention. Do you realize that they feel just as you do, and their arguments are almost parallel?

I don’t disagree with you here. The Church is the Body of Christ and we are its members. We, though many, are one body in Christ. It just so happens that Jesus did set aside ONE Church that has the Fullness of the Faith. It has ALL Truths and the FULL means of Salvation. That is the Catholic Church. And although there are many Christians out there that are not members of the Catholic Church, they are still members of the Body of Christ.

The full means of Salvation come from Christ, and not one particular denom. Christians outside of your church receive full salvation.

I know some denoms believe that their bread is not just a symbol and they do as Jesus commands in John 6. That faith that those people have for the ‘reality’ of the food that they eat has got to be commended. I am so sure that God gives them graces galore for that kind of faith. But when they learn that the real presence is only in the Catholic Church (and any other that is united to our Pope), they would want to partake of the “real thing” in the Catholic Church.

How would I learn such a thing, since it most certainly is not true? I have experienced the real presence of the Lord in the Eucharist. Also… have you forgotten the Greek Orthodox as well, who are not Roman Catholic but still believe in the presence of the Lord in the Eucharist?

The church fragmented well before the Protestants broke away. Who is to say that your particular denom is one of the fragments that is the “true church” and not, say, the Greek Orthodox, who could make the very same claims, and the very same arguments?

You are making some very exclusive claims without backing it up, to someone who already consumes Christ in the Eucharist, and to folks who find the fullness of salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[jmcrae]

Those verses came straight out of the King James.

But you card-shuffled some verses from the Gospel of Luke into the John 6 passage in order to make it say what you wanted it to mean, instead of what Jesus actually said at that time.

 

[believers]

But you card-shuffled some verses from the Gospel of Luke into the John 6 passage in order to make it say what you wanted it to mean, instead of what Jesus actually said at that time.

No, I didn’t. Then please specify which verse. I took them all from John.

 

[believers]

You know very well what I meant when I said the Catholic Church is for the whole world. The Catholic Church is for all those who believe in Jesus Christ. Jesus wanted the disciples to go out into the whole world to preach the gospel.

Actually, the Vatican says the Catholic Church is for all those who believe in Jesus Christ and/or the God of Abraham most specifically Muslims. Don’t you study the Catechism?

 

[Sixtus]

I was just wondering that if the CC dropped their Traditions of honoring Mary and the saints, the sacrament of Confession to a priest and the papal infallibility doctrine, would Protestants become Catholic?

The answer is a resounding NO!

Most Protestants would settle for nothing but the dissolution of the Catholic Church by any power foreign or alien, it matters not, so long as it served to rid the world of that most heinious of horrors ‘the roman catholic church’ [small case intended; illustrating ungrammatic lengths].

Some respect the CC. But for every one that does, there is another who sees the Pope as the whore of Babylon etc etc.

The SDA I suspect would settle for the Pope being burnt at the stake but would probably be a bit more merciful towards the rest of us.

I asked that very question in another thread. A contributor gave the same answer.

 

[Sixtus]

Actually, the Vatican says the Catholic Church is for all those who believe in Jesus Christ

We must not forget Orthodoxy. They too. We share the same roots. They too were there in the very beginning.

 

[jmcrae]

No, I didn’t. Then please specify which verse. I took them all from John.

True, my mistake, all of the verses were from John. You inserted John 4:34 after John 6:55, to make it seem as though Jesus intended to be speaking about the same “meat” in both verses.

John 6:55
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

John 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

In reality, these were two separate occasions, and Jesus was speaking about two entirely different things.

 

[jmcrae]

We must not forget Orthodoxy. They too. We share the same roots. They too were there in the very beginning.

Of course, they were also still Catholic, then.

 

[believers]

True, my mistake, all of the verses were from John. You inserted John 4:34 after John 6:55, to make it seem as though Jesus intended to be speaking about the same “meat” in both verses.

John 6:55
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

John 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

In reality, these were two separate occasions, and Jesus was speaking about two entirely different things.

Jesus did define “meat” in John 4:34. So you guys just forget that when reading the rest of John? Jesus said it, so it must be important.

 

[believers]

Of course, they were also still Catholic, then.

Catholics, True or False? Catholics and Muslims share belief in the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

 

[believers]

Protestants, True or False? Christians and Muslims share belief in the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

 

[jmcrae]

Jesus did define “meat” in John 4:34. So you guys just forget that when reading the rest of John? Jesus said it, so it must be important.

Jesus was not “defining” the word “meat.” He was using a common figure of speech to describe His interaction with the Samaritan woman.

Jesus never re-defined words. He used words according to their commonly accepted meanings. Some words take more than one meaning, depending on the context. Jesus was paying attention to context whenever He was using words.

Humpty Dumpty creates new meanings for words. (Alice Through the Looking Glass, by Lewis Carroll)

Jesus was not Humpty Dumpty. Jesus never did such a thing.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Catholics, True or False? Catholics and Muslims share belief in the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

I honestly don’t know. Anyone else know?

 

[dessert]

False

Luk 22:8
And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

Mass as I see is the banquet table of the celebration of the Sacrament of the Eucharist.
Passover in the hebrew is to mean pass over but in the greek it means a feast or celbration as the NT of the new covenant of the shed blood of Jesus so every mass is a feast. i’m probably not explaing this well as I am trying to use my own logic. Sorry ! So me as a Catholic mass is the celebration and would miss Jesus if he weren’t there in th Eucharist! that is about all I am going to put into this thread. dessert

 

[jmcrae]

I honestly don’t know. Anyone else know?

I think he is trying to accuse us of saying that Muslims are saved without Jesus, since the Catechism tells us that Muslims know about the God of Abraham, and are therefore on the path of salvation (the third step, to be exact, since the lesson about Abraham is Lesson 3 in the RCIA Catechumenate).

 

[mrs_abbott]

I think he is trying to accuse us of saying that Muslims are saved without Jesus, since the Catechism tells us that Muslims know about the God of Abraham, and are therefore on the path of salvation (the third step, to be exact, since the lesson about Abraham is Lesson 3 in the RCIA Catechumenate).

I knew it was a sarcastically-asked question but I still didn’t get it. Maybe I need a nap.
Thanks for clarifying, jmcrae!

 

[believers]

I honestly don’t know. Anyone else know?

This is from your own Catechism. According to Jhn 14:6, this statement is completely false. I hope you guys don’t believe in this false doctrine. No church of Jesus would ever state this.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

Jhn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.